Proposal: Chychrun to Anaheim

[Empoleon8771]

That feeling when you didn’t know who he was, and then got called out, and decide to cope by doubling down on a bad take.

You tend to be a really good poster, but god damn, you're being a real defensive jerk in this thread

Oh no, someone made a point that I disagree with and said my proposal was weak! I should just dismiss all of his points as "stupid" and get defensive about it!

I don't particularly give a f*** what you do with your players. I'm giving my opinion on a player based on precedent for player values.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

LOL

Yes? do you have any counter arguments.

Vilardi has not been good at all, that was prob generous of me to rate him over the 2nd round pick
Turcotte has been very disappointing for a 5th overall pick
Durzi has been solid

 

[Hodge]

If Zellweger was born a week later he'd be a top 15 pick in this year's draft. Maybe higher.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Zellweger is having a phenomenal season, to the point where Anaheim should be ecstatic that they got him for a 2nd rounder. But considering how much weaker the CHL is relative to the NCAA or European pro leagues, teams will value him dominating in the WHL way less than if he was dominating in a different league. It's a high risk for teams to basically be buying high on prospects in one of the CHL leagues.

I can imagine teams would value him higher, but there wouldn't be this massive difference in value relative to where he was drafted. There is just too much risk with CHL prospects for teams to do that, it's why these "booming" prospects almost always come out of the NCAA or Europe.

Welp no one is talking about any college/europe prospects coming to arizona yet in this thread

 

[bsu]

If Zellweger was born a week later he'd be a top 15 pick in this year's draft. Maybe higher.

Top 12 imo. But yeah you're right.

 

[Djp]

To ANA:
Chychrun

To ARI:
Conditional ‘22 1st*
Olen Zellweger
Comtois OR Perreault
Conditional’23 2nd**

*If Anaheim’s ‘22 1st is Top 10, Arizona receives Boston’s ‘22 1st, instead.

** Arizona receives whichever of Colorado or Boston’s ‘23 2nd is earlier.

given he isn’t a rental it’s likely costing a team 2 1st++ based on recent trades.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Zellweger is having a phenomenal season, to the point where Anaheim should be ecstatic that they got him for a 2nd rounder. But considering how much weaker the CHL is relative to the NCAA or European pro leagues, teams will value him dominating in the WHL way less than if he was dominating in a different league. It's a high risk for teams to basically be buying high on prospects in one of the CHL leagues.

I can imagine teams would value him higher, but there wouldn't be this massive difference in value relative to where he was drafted. There is just too much risk with CHL prospects for teams to do that, it's why these "booming" prospects almost always come out of the NCAA or Europe.

I don't think this is true in a normal year but this also ignores what a clusterf*** the 2021 draft was. There was so little tape teams wanted it moved to this June, you still think he goes in the second round then?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Welp no one is talking about any college/europe prospects coming to arizona yet in this thread

......uh, okay?

I already made my comment on the value in the OP: I think it costs more than basically Zelleweger and the Lindholm return to get Chychrun.

 

[Hodge]

Top 12 imo. But yeah you're right.

On talent/performance he's probably top 5 but GMs are still super conservative when it comes to drafting small defensemen that high.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Where am I using that as an argument against him? I'm saying that him dominating in the WHL won't move his value much because prospects who dominate in the CHL never have their values move much. You need to be dominating in a college or men's league, like what guys like Zegras or Brannstrom have done in the past, to get massive spikes in value. Dominating in the CHL won't cut it.



I have made my argument in here really clear. You just appear to be unable to read.

There's an example contradicting your point within this very same offer.

Max Comtois was a late 2nd round pick at 18. Went back and had a dominant season in the QMJHL. Earned a 10 game trial look at 19 posting 7 points. Are you going to try to tell me his value didn't massively increase over the course of his D+1 season? Or was still worth roughly a late 2nd at 19?

 

[bsu]

On talent/performance he's probably top 5 but GMs are still super conservative when it comes to drafting small defensemen that high.

Agreed

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

LOL, in your genius own words based on what

I mean the offers were pretty much stale mates, with arizona preferences. not like the offer is blowing anaheims offer away.

Not sure why you are being so salty in this thread.

 

[kings11]

You can’t without Clarke.

Your value is more than a bit off ..
Clarke
Grans
Spence
Are all better Dman prospects than Zellweger.. Spence is proving that in the NHL while Grans is doing it in the AHL…

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think this is true in a normal year but this also ignores what a clusterf*** the 2021 draft was. There was so little tape teams wanted it moved to this June, you still think he goes in the second round then?

He definitely goes higher in a redraft but I have no clue where he'd go. Maybe in the 15-20 range?

Someone else in here brought up Sam Girard, which I think is a good comparison, but Girard himself was only a 2nd rounder after putting up 74 points in 67 games in his draft year. Granted, that was in the Q and that's definitely not as good as what Zelleweger is doing.

 

[Empoleon8771]

There's an example contradicting your point within this very same offer.

Max Comtois was a late 2nd round pick at 18. Went back and had a dominant season in the QMJHL. Earned a 10 game trial look at 19 posting 7 points. Are you going to try to tell me his value didn't massively increase over the course of his D+1 season? Or was still worth roughly a late 2nd at 19?

His value increased because of what he did in the pros, not because of what he did in the Q. Sam Poulin's value didn't massively increase when he put up 77 points in 46 QMJHL games but did nothing in the pros.

Personally, I would value Zellweger at a 1st rounder around 20 right now, where I'd go a little higher if he dominates in the playoffs. To me, that's not a massive value change from where he was drafted at 34.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Your value is more than a bit off ..
Clarke
Grans
Spence
Are all better Dman prospects than Zellweger.. Spence is proving that in the NHL while Grans is doing it in the AHL…

Based on your theory

wouldn't that make
Zellweger = Clarke
and they are worse than Grans Spence?

where do you put Thrun/Helleson/Lacombe in your list?
I got to assume you have them ahead of clarke, because they are proving it in a harder league?

I read kings boards pretty often, i know you guys are better than this

 

[sasha barkov]

better prospects than comtois LOL

Comtois will have higher point totals than both. Comtois was supposed to be a top 3 pick in his draft year but fell because his parents got a divorce and it took a toll on his game, which is understandable. He has looked better at the nhl level than both thus far and likely will have a better career than both. Turcotte got overhyped because he was on a good team and Vilardi has too many injury issues. Turcotte lacks the offensive upside to become a bonafide top 6 C

 

[sasha barkov]

given he isn’t a rental it’s likely costing a team 2 1st++ based on recent trades.

Zellweger holds the value of a top 15-10 pick …

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

given he isn’t a rental it’s likely costing a team 2 1st++ based on recent trades.

I think that offer essentially is 3 1sts, and id say he undersold the 2nd... prob could have anaheim 2nd which should be top 40.

Zells = 1st
Perreault = 1st
1st = 1st
2nd = top 40 pick(which is prob pretty close in terms of value to a late 1st)

 

[kings11]

Zellweger is a better prospect than Faber by a pretty wide margin

Only based on offensive potential..
But even when you factor that in, Faber’s defensive game is still better than Zellwegers offensive..
Kids like Clarke, Faber, Spence, Grans and even Durzi are highly touted..
One was dominant in Juniors
One was just named Big 10 Dman of the year.. you should see over who and will be either in the AHL or NHL shortly
One accumulated 40+ Pts in his 1st AHL as is now in the NHL
The latter is one of the best Dmen not yet in the NHL

I named all these kids because most NHL2022 guys in here don’t realize just how good the Kings pipeline is and based everything off of their draft position..

 

[WhatTheDuck]

His value increased because of what he did in the pros, not because of what he did in the Q. Sam Poulin's value didn't massively increase when he put up 77 points in 46 QMJHL games but did nothing in the pros.

Personally, I would value Zellweger at a 1st rounder around 20 right now, where I'd go a little higher if he dominates in the playoffs. To me, that's not a massive value change from where he was drafted at 34.

So from the time Comtois was drafted late 2nd, to a year later when he cracked an NHL lineup, you don't think his value increased any notable amount? Heavily disagree and feel like you'd be on a bit of an island with the opinion. CHL players have the ability to raise their stock the same as any prospect.

 

[deaderhead28]

To ANA:
Chychrun

To ARI:
Conditional ‘22 1st*
Olen Zellweger
Comtois OR Perreault
Conditional’23 2nd**

*If Anaheim’s ‘22 1st is Top 10, Arizona receives Boston’s ‘22 1st, instead.

** Arizona receives whichever of Colorado or Boston’s ‘23 2nd is earlier.

Coyotes can get a better haul.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So from the time Comtois was drafted late 2nd, to a year later when he cracked an NHL lineup, you don't think his value increased any notable amount? Heavily disagree and feel like you'd be on a bit of an island with the opinion. CHL players have the ability to raise their stock the same as any prospect.

I think it required him breaking into the NHL and having that phenomenal 10 game sample in the NHL to actually increase his value in an notable amount. Without those 10 games, I think Comtois would have just been valued as a "great 2nd rounder who's looking like he should have gone higher". Those 10 games made a massive difference because it showed he could play in the NHL.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Only based on offensive potential..
But even when you factor that in, Faber’s defensive game is still better than Zellwegers offensive..
Kids like Clarke, Faber, Spence, Grans and even Durzi are highly touted..
One was dominant in Juniors
One was just named Big 10 Dman of the year.. you should see over who and will be either in the AHL or NHL shortly
One accumulated 40+ Pts in his 1st AHL as is now in the NHL
The latter is one of the best Dmen not yet in the NHL

I named all these kids because most NHL2022 guys in here don’t realize just how good the Kings pipeline is and based everything off of their draft position..

I don't think that last bit is true at all. If anything I've long argued the Kings' pool is overrated because a lot of their picks were on guys who went later than people thought they should've.

 

[rt]

You tend to be a really good poster, but god damn, you're being a real defensive ass in this thread

Oh no, someone made a point that I disagree with and said my proposal was weak! I should just dismiss all of his points as "stupid" and get defensive about it!

I don't particularly give a f*** what you do with your players. I'm giving my opinion on a player based on precedent for player values.

Haha. I was just coming back to say I normally like your posts and to make sure you knew I was talking shit on your posts and not on you. Lol.