Rumor: Chychrun Megathread (Asking price has been met per Sportsnet)

[Jamieh]

There is a cap though, and Muzzin is 32. Not saying they have to trade him but eventually they won't have any assets on ELCs that can make a push and the roster will be made up of 5 top 6 forwards, 3 LD and a RD. Depth will suffer and Campbell needs and extention. Eventually they will hit a wall unless the cap starts going up sooner than later.

2 more seasons before Muzzin, Matthews, Nylander, and Brodie all need new deals. You don't sell Matthews and Brodie is the only top 4 RD option. Moving at 32 yo with 2 more years to a 23 year old with 3 makes sense. Nylander for some ELC youth also makes sense. Mrazek also makes sense but he'd be a pure dump and probably needs a 2nd+ to move, which I'd be happy to help facilitate but then you've given up a lot of futures to clean your cap.

I can see all of that but every game that Muzzin misses shows the Leafs and fans that he is very important right now. They get pushed around a lot more in their own end when he isn't playing. Right now this year Muzzin for Chychrun makes little sense for the Leafs. Again we are seeing why I say there is not really a fit with Toronto. And trading Nylander makes the least sense, he is the best value the Leafs have after Campbell.

 

[hbk]

Perhaps its better to wait until the Leafs get swept again in the first round.

 

[Jamieh]

Perhaps its better to wait until the Leafs get swept again in the first round.

Why wait, there are better options to trade Chychrun??

 

[hbk]

Why wait, there are better options to trade Chychrun??

BA will deal him if/when the price he wants is met. No need to panic.

 

[Jakey53]

Why wait, there are better options to trade Chychrun??

No options have been suitable to BA or Chych may have already been traded.

 

[Jakey53]

BA will deal him if/when the price he wants is met. No need to panic.

If BA is waiting for the same quality as the Eichel trade, I'm afraid BA could be waiting for a long time, as in maybe never.

 

[YotesFan47]

I can see all of that but every game that Muzzin misses shows the Leafs and fans that he is very important right now. They get pushed around a lot more in their own end when he isn't playing. Right now this year Muzzin for Chychrun makes little sense for the Leafs. Again we are seeing why I say there is not really a fit with Toronto. And trading Nylander makes the least sense, he is the best value the Leafs have after Campbell.

I agree with all of that, but if it's not Muzzin and it's not Nylander, who goes? Marner? That's a tough contract to move, even though he's real good. I guess they could package Mrazek and Ritchie with a 1st and prospect for something useful to clear the cap but that doesn't really solve the depth issue, the exact same issue Edmonton is dealing with. Edmonton has done a worse job managing their cap though, Toronto is leagues better at that. Edmonton also kinda lacks a Campbell (Smith).

Maybe Marner for Chychrun and we flip Marner (50%) for our assets. Would still need to have the 3rd team lined up before we made the deal.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I agree with all of that, but if it's not Muzzin and it's not Nylander, who goes? Marner? That's a tough contract to move, even though he's real good. I guess they could package Mrazek and Ritchie with a 1st and prospect for something useful to clear the cap but that doesn't really solve the depth issue, the exact same issue Edmonton is dealing with. Edmonton has done a worse job managing their cap though, Toronto is leagues better at that. Edmonton also kinda lacks a Campbell (Smith).

Maybe Marner for Chychrun and we flip Marner (50%) for our assets. Would still need to have the 3rd team lined up before we made the deal.

You would give up Marner for assets? I'd keep Marner. Rebuild with big bodies around him.

 

[57special]

Absolutely. Take the local kid with a question mark that can be worked with to improve.

I had absolutely no idea he was an AZ kid! I thought he was from some place up in Canada. He plays like it.

 

[Jamieh]

I agree with all of that, but if it's not Muzzin and it's not Nylander, who goes? Marner? That's a tough contract to move, even though he's real good. I guess they could package Mrazek and Ritchie with a 1st and prospect for something useful to clear the cap but that doesn't really solve the depth issue, the exact same issue Edmonton is dealing with. Edmonton has done a worse job managing their cap though, Toronto is leagues better at that. Edmonton also kinda lacks a Campbell (Smith).

Maybe Marner for Chychrun and we flip Marner (50%) for our assets. Would still need to have the 3rd team lined up before we made the deal.

Do you seriously think you can get Marner for Chychrun?? And you think Marner woukd need retention for assets? He was 1st team all star winger last year and is a point a game player in his career.

 

[YotesFan47]

You would give up Marner for assets? I'd keep Marner. Rebuild with big bodies around him.

100% I would, no question about it. He's good but he's not Kane. Kane earned his $10m contract, Marner should be paid closer to $8m. If I was the Toronto GM and didn't have Tavares than no, no need to trade him but having 3 guys makeing $10m makes it hard to build a deep roster. If I could get a team like Arizona to eat 50% of that contract too, I'm making a trade for as many young, middle 6, two-way wingers as possible.

Edit: Those wingers should have upside to them, wouldn't trade him for a bunch of 3rd liners. I would trade him for 2 Crouse like players and 2 more wingers with less offense.

 

[YotesFan47]

Do you seriously think you can get Marner for Chychrun?? And you think Marner woukd need retention for assets? He was 1st team all star winger last year and is a point a game player in his career.

No, you missed my point and I may have done a bad job explaining it because I was on my phone and dealing with a 60-120 second refresh.

My point is that Marner is one of many expensive contracts which block Toronto's ability to add players they actually need. Scoring is a non issue in Toronto, they have 140 GF, good for 10th in the league (tied with Nashville at 45 GP and Anaheim at 47 GP vs Toronto's 40). Toronto needs secondary scoring, a top 4 RD, a solid backup goalie, and players who play with an edge from my perspective. How do you achieve all that?

I willy nilly put in Chychrun without thinking about returns, that was a mistake, exclude that part from my post.

You can get Chychrun to Toronto without moving Marner, maybe play Muzzin on RD next to Chychrun, but you still have a backup goalie, forward depth, and lack of physical playoff players issue, on top of a flat cap.

 

[hbk]

If BA is waiting for the same quality as the Eichel trade, I'm afraid BA could be waiting for a long time, as in maybe never.

He waited for that 1st for Keumper. He waited for that first with Dvorak. He waited for a too 10 pick for OEL. Track record seems pretty good on BA’s ability to read the market.

 

[Jamieh]

No, you missed my point and I may have done a bad job explaining it because I was on my phone and dealing with a 60-120 second refresh.

My point is that Marner is one of many expensive contracts which block Toronto's ability to add players they actually need. Scoring is a non issue in Toronto, they have 140 GF, good for 10th in the league (tied with Nashville at 45 GP and Anaheim at 47 GP vs Toronto's 40). Toronto needs secondary scoring, a top 4 RD, a solid backup goalie, and players who play with an edge from my perspective. How do you achieve all that?

I willy nilly put in Chychrun without thinking about returns, that was a mistake, exclude that part from my post.

You can get Chychrun to Toronto without moving Marner, maybe play Muzzin on RD next to Chychrun, but you still have a backup goalie, forward depth, and lack of physical playoff players issue, on top of a flat cap.

I think we are back to where I started , the Leafs are not a fit for Chychrun. Pretty sure they tried Muzzin briefly at RD with zero success. If you take a look at Leaf's scoring for last few years the guy playing with Marner scores at their best, that's not a coincidence. Now the reality of the Cap is that almost every team will have weaknesses, its clear what the Leafs are. It's just not that easy to fix.

 

[YotesFan47]

I think we are back to where I started , the Leafs are not a fit for Chychrun. Pretty sure they tried Muzzin briefly at RD with zero success. If you take a look at Leaf's scoring for last few years the guy playing with Marner scores at their best, that's not a coincidence. Now the reality of the Cap is that almost every team will have weaknesses, its clear what the Leafs are. It's just not that easy to fix.

I think it is, you just have to be willing to give up a valuable player. Is Marner > fixing 4 weaknesses that could the difference between a cup in the next 3 years or not? I think so.

I agree that Chychrun is not a fit as their roster sits today, and not because Toronto couldn't potentially afford it, but because their biggest needs don't align with Chychrun. They for whatever reason are in on Chychrun though, maybe Dubas is looking at a larger shake up than we realize and is keeping it close to the vest.

Marner for Roy + Arvidsson/Lafallo + Kempe would be a huge add to that team. Trade Ritchie + Mrazek + whatever is needed for Chychrun.

Lafallo - Matthews - Kempe (This line would be absolutely nasty)
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Mikheyev - Kerfoot - Kampf
Engvall - Spezza - Simmonds

Reilly - Brodie
Chychrun - Roy
Muzzin - Liljegren
Dermott, Holl

Campbell

Defense is now a strong point, you're forward group is a little more normal but still super deadly. That feels like a team that goes deep in the playoffs vs a team that loses in the 1st round. Adding Chychrun and moving Marner to fill gaps would be huge.

 

[rt]

Jets fans, what do you guys think about Chychrun for Lucius, Heinola, and a 1st (w/a Beaulieu dump)?

 

[rt]

That Ducks proposal @XX negotiated I think actually works for the Ducks. They keep a ridiculous 1-2 punch down the middle in Zegras and McTavish and end up with Chychrun as the top LD and Drysdale as the top RD. That’s the makings of a legit team. They can afford to absorb the loss of the huge acquisition price of Chychrun. Particularly if they sell Lindholm and Manson, and immediately restock.

Here’s a wild idea; Manson for Knies, Ritchie and a 2nd. Then Comtois, Zellweger, Knies and a 1st for Chychrun.

 

[Heldig]

Jets fans, what do you guys think about Chychrun for Lucius, Heinola, and a 1st (w/a Beaulieu dump)?

Value wise it is pretty decent for the Coyotes...Lucius's skating is a risk IMO.

I dont see that being the trade the Jets make. They need a top pairing RHD. Trading for Chychrun just means they have to sort out a deep and expensive left side.

 

[rt]

Jordan Binnington and Ville Husso are the perfect example of my “easy come, easy go” goalie philosophy. Neither cost the Blues top draft picks. Neither were acquired via expensive trade packages. Both have had times when they were playing at an elite level in the NHL. St. Louis made the mistake of giving Binnington a giant contract. Now hes playing poorly and Husso is looking like an elite tender. Husso is UFA and STL is stuck.

Binningtons and Husso just come along. You don’t have to take them in the first. And you don’t have to trade valuable pieces for them. You also shouldn’t give them huge contracts. These guys just come along. And they also just fall off. Look at Darcy Kuemper. How’s that working for Colorado?

Easy come, easy go.

Do NOT trade Chychrun for freaking Knight or Swayman. It’s just a terrible idea. Sign Vejmelka to a bargain bridge, and go shopping off the discount rack for the next Vejmelka or next Husso. And if Vejmelka develops into that next big goalie on his bridge deal, don’t be the dummies who sign him to the giant extension. Even if he’s earned it. Let him go.

Easy come, easy go.

 

[rt]

On the 32 Thoughts Pod that just dropped Friedman just said and Marek agreed that they think Owen Tippett would be part of any Chychrun deal with Arizona.

1. We will lose any deal with Florida that Lundell isn’t in.

2. Lundell won’t be in any deal with Florida.

3. If Chychrun is dealt to Florida, we automatically lose.

4. If Owen Tippett isn’t the FOURTH best asset in a Chychrun deal with Florida we have lost CATASTROPHICALLY in the trade.

5. Even if he is the 4th most appealing asset, there’s still a chance it’s a HUGE loss. Example? Spencer Knight, Owen Tippett, ‘23 1st, ‘22 2nd. He’s the 4th most appealing asset. But the last one in front of him is a freaking 2nd rounder.

 

[cobra427]

Jordan Binnington and Ville Husso are the perfect example of my “easy come, easy go” goalie philosophy. Neither cost the Blues top draft picks. Neither were acquired via expensive trade packages. Both have had times when they were playing at an elite level in the NHL. St. Louis made the mistake of giving Binnington a giant contract. Now hes playing poorly and Husso is looking like an elite tender. Husso is UFA and STL is stuck.

Binningtons and Husso just come along. You don’t have to take them in the first. And you don’t have to trade valuable pieces for them. You also shouldn’t give them huge contracts. These guys just come along. And they also just fall off. Look at Darcy Kuemper. How’s that working for Colorado?

Easy come, easy go.

Do NOT trade Chychrun for freaking Knight or Swayman. It’s just a terrible idea. Sign Vejmelka to a bargain bridge, and go shopping off the discount rack for the next Vejmelka or next Husso. And if Vejmelka develops into that next big goalie on his bridge deal, don’t be the dummies who sign him to the giant extension. Even if he’s earned it. Let him go.

Easy come, easy go.

Agreed. Easy to get a decent goal tender, don't include one as a return for Chych. In the last 10 years we have had Bryz/Smith/Raanta/Kuemper, all good #1's, maybe Veg now. In that time, we have had zero 1Cs and only one 1D, let's get assets in those areas top pairing D potential, top 1C/2C potential.

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

On the 32 Thoughts Pod that just dropped Friedman just said and Marek agreed that they think Owen Tippett would be part of any Chychrun deal with Arizona.

1. We will lose any deal with Florida that Lundell isn’t in.

2. Lundell won’t be in any deal with Florida.

3. If Chychrun is dealt to Florida, we automatically lose.

4. If Owen Tippett isn’t the FOURTH best asset in a Chychrun deal with Florida we have lost CATASTROPHICALLY in the trade.

5. Even if he is the 4th most appealing asset, there’s still a chance it’s a HUGE loss. Example? Spencer Knight, Owen Tippett, ‘23 1st, ‘22 2nd. He’s the 4th most appealing asset. But the last one in front of him is a freaking 2nd rounder.

They're probably offering something like Denisenko, Tippett, 2023 first and 2022 second. Basically a pile of crap for a good asset. Even replacing Denisenko with Knight or Samoskevich it still sucks and I don't see any way BA makes that trade. It just doesn't make any sense to make that trade

 

[Boxscore]

I'd love to see Chychrun on the Leafs. Would something around Sandin, Amirov and a 1st get it done?

 

[Boxscore]

To Col
Chychrun
Crouse

To Az
Newhook
Barron
Kaut
2023 first
Murray
JTC

I don't see the fit in Colorado. Part of the mystique in trading for Chychrun is to have him run your PP and produce offense from the back-end. Prior to this season, he scored double digit goals two years straight. Last year he had 18 goals and 41 points in 56 games -- this is a guy who want generating offense.

Colorado has Makar, Girard and Byram and don't need Chychrun's offense and won't maximize those minutes for him.

I think he really needs to go to a team like LA or Philly where he can be the main dog in all situations and gobble up as much PP time as he can handle. He can have an Ekblad / Weber presence if he gets top PP time.

 

[Perratrooper]

I don't see the fit in Colorado. Part of the mystique in trading for Chychrun is to have him run your PP and produce offense from the back-end. Prior to this season, he scored double digit goals two years straight. Last year he had 18 goals and 41 points in 56 games -- this is a guy who want generating offense.

Colorado has Makar, Girard and Byram and don't need Chychrun's offense and won't maximize those minutes for him.

I think he really needs to go to a team like LA or Philly where he can be the main dog in all situations and gobble up as much PP time as he can handle. He can have an Ekblad / Weber presence if he gets top PP time.

I tend to agree, just trying to see what the line is value wise. However, having a top four of Makar, Toews, Chychrun and Girard would have to compete for best in the league. Ultimately I think Newhook addresses a larger need for Colorado and it Byram can ever come back healthy he essentially fills the spot Chychrun does without giving up any assets.