Rumor: Chychrun Megathread (Asking price has been met per Sportsnet)

[Jormungandr]

I really like Swayman.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Both Swayman and Knight are good goalie youngsters, but goalies should never be the top asset in a trade for a #1Dman...not ever.

We've had luck plucking goalies out of no where and they perform well...no reason to use a "premium" asset to acquire a goalie. This will be a bad hockey trade if it goes this way.

 

[PainForShane]

I really like Swayman.

Swayman's great, so is Knight. But this is Chychrun we're talking about.

Also goalies take a LOOOONG time to mature and sometimes they never get there (see Carter Hart, time will tell with him). And even if they do get there are they worth the big money they'll need? In other words for every Vasi there is a Bob or to a lesser extent, Price. Also, unlike other key positions good goalies can be found on the free agent market, you don't necessarily have to develop them from within.

Personally I really like Knight (Sway is good too), but unless either can show they're the next Marty Brodeur imo that's not enough of a return for a 23 year old 1D who's good on both sides of the puck. Not even close

 

[rt]

And Kessel @50%? Hard pass.

BA's fine guys. This is the guy who got a first++ for Kuemper, Dylan Guenther as part of the OEL cap dump (when OEL had a full NMC), and also a first for Dvorak. He's at least come out even on every major trade so far, and there have been a few in a very short time. No way he doesn't get a good deal for Chych (e.g., Swayman + mediocre prospects won't be enough).

Worst case we keep Chychrun for now, CAR or FLA flames out of the playoffs (they both can't win the cup), followed by something in the offseason. Or maybe we keep Chychrun, that would be ok too. Once we're out of the rebuild we'd need a player like him anyway

I’m very scared.

Really just hoping for Jarvis at this point. Jarvis would be like re-acquiring Conor Garland, but he’s magically six years younger (but he’s the 24 year old version of himself at age 19).

 

[Jamieh]

Swayman's great, so is Knight. But this is Chychrun we're talking about.

Also goalies take a LOOOONG time to mature and sometimes they never get there (see Carter Hart, time will tell with him). And even if they do get there are they worth the big money they'll need? In other words for every Vasi there is a Bob or to a lesser extent, Price. Also, unlike other key positions good goalies can be found on the free agent market, you don't necessarily have to develop them from within.

Personally I really like Knight (Sway is good too), but unless either can show they're the next Marty Brodeur imo that's not enough of a return for a 23 year old 1D who's good on both sides of the puck. Not even close

I really agree with most of your thoughts about goalies but I did chuckle thinking it's been over a decade since a team won a Cup with a goalie they didn't draft!!!! What an odd stat.

 

[XX]

That Boston proposal with DeBrusk and Moore is garbage. Like aggressively bad. BA has not done something that stupid to date.

Just chill.

 

[Zippy316]

No interest in Zacha. And the rest of the package is so underwhelming that there’s zero chance I’d do it with lottery protection.

It’s a moot point with goaltending being in such shambles but the Devils sucked for so many years that they’ve built up an excess of young players. Where other teams have only one or two options, Devils realistically have three or more in a theoretical deal like this:

1. High-end D prospect : Smith or Mukhmadullin
2. Young NHL forward : Zacha, Sharangovich, Johnsson, or Kuokkanen
3. On the NHL cusp: Boqvist, Foote, Zetterlund, Clarke Thompson (inj.)
4. 2021 1st

Subban at 50% is probably another asset that could’ve been thrown in for Arizona to flip. There’s also prospects like Holtz and Gritsyuk that Devils would be hesitant to move, but I could see the justification. Daws and Schmid have also started their pro careers incredibly well in goal. I would think there’s some package there Arizona would like.

Goaltending is likely to sink the Devils into another bottom five finish they don’t need. Next year isn’t looking up either with how poor Blackwood has been in back to back injury plagued seasons without a capable backup. Plus you now have Bernier coming off hip surgery which never goes well for aging goalies. Even league average goaltending by Blackwood and this could’ve been something Fitzgerald seriously considered.

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

That Boston proposal with DeBrusk and Moore is garbage. Like aggressively bad. BA has not done something that stupid to date.

Just chill.

I think the reason for this recent despair is that the initial reaction to Chychrun being on the block was "whoa! He's a superstar! We're gonna get a haul, every team will be lining up! Bidding war!" and now it feels like that enthusiasm has dampened. Teams aren't offering the moon or getting into a massive bidding war, and some have even walked away.

I personally feel silly even thinking there was a remote chance Florida could pony up Lundell. Then last night when he had 2 points and Chychrun cost us our game against the pens..It was a ridiculous proposition from the start.

 

[XX]

I think the reason for this recent despair is that the initial reaction to Chychrun being on the block was "whoa! He's a superstar! We're gonna get a haul, every team will be lining up! Bidding war!" and now it feels like that enthusiasm has dampened. Teams aren't offering the moon or getting into a massive bidding war, and some have even walked away.

The Kings and Rangers being 'out' can just as easily be info fed to pundits by BA, indicating they were cut after refusing to put a player he wants in the deal.

Do not get it twisted. This is one of the best trade assets to cross the block in the cap era and teams want him. A player like this is normally never available with term and as much career in front of them at such an attractive cap hit. Chychrun's value increases the further down the lineup he moves, as he is a mismatch weapon that can abuse the competition. GMs aren't stupid. It's just a lot to pay so we're going to do the silly dance until someone has a moment of clarity and gets serious.

BA hasn't had a poor showing in any trade yet. There's no reason to think he'll f*** up his biggest move to date with the least amount of pressure.

 

[rt]

That Boston proposal with DeBrusk and Moore is garbage. Like aggressively bad. BA has not done something that stupid to date.

Just chill.

Of course it’s garbage. I’m not posting wishlists.

 

[rt]

It’s a moot point with goaltending being in such shambles but the Devils sucked for so many years that they’ve built up an excess of young players. Where other teams have only one or two options, Devils realistically have three or more in a theoretical deal like this:

1. High-end D prospect : Smith or Mukhmadullin
2. Young NHL forward : Zacha, Sharangovich, Johnsson, or Kuokkanen
3. On the NHL cusp: Boqvist, Foote, Zetterlund, Clarke Thompson (inj.)
4. 2021 1st

Subban at 50% is probably another asset that could’ve been thrown in for Arizona to flip. There’s also prospects like Holtz and Gritsyuk that Devils would be hesitant to move, but I could see the justification. Daws and Schmid have also started their pro careers incredibly well in goal. I would think there’s some package there Arizona would like.

Goaltending is likely to sink the Devils into another bottom five finish they don’t need. Next year isn’t looking up either with how poor Blackwood has been in back to back injury plagued seasons without a capable backup. Plus you now have Bernier coming off hip surgery which never goes well for aging goalies. Even league average goaltending by Blackwood and this could’ve been something Fitzgerald seriously considered.

So long as that 1st isn’t protected, this is interesting.

 

[Prestigeworldwide]

Isn't Debrusk negative value? I don't think he is work his contract let alone a raise to 4.41 mill next year. He's getting paid $4.85m this year with the 3.675 cap.

 

[XX]

So long as that 1st isn’t protected, this is interesting.

Smith, Zacha, Clarke, top 12 pick is okay value. That's probably the best permutation.

Pick would need to be an offensive success for the trade to net out positive value IMO. But it's not bad utility wise.

Isn't Debrusk negative value? I don't think he is work his contract let alone a raise to 4.41 mill next year. He's getting paid $4.85m this year with the 3.675 cap.

Yes, that's why his inclusion on top of Moore was dumb.

 

[Jakey53]

Had the same thought for the past couple of weeks. Moser makes it easier to put Chychrun out there.

Time to pump the brakes on Moser. He has only had a cup of coffee in the NHL.

 

[rt]

Smith, Zacha, Clarke, top 12 pick is okay value. That's probably the best permutation.

Pick would need to be an offensive success for the trade to net out positive value IMO. But it's not bad utility wise.




Yes, that's why his inclusion on top of Moore was dumb.

The insiders were saying there’s interest around DeBrusk and he’d bring an asset. He was included only because of his CapHit. That’s it.

I wouldn’t give up an asset for DeBrusk. But it sound like some teams would.

Insiders are saying the price on Phil is only a 2nd.

BTW - as much as that proposal sucks - and it does suck - I dare you to propose that same deal to B’s fans. 90% will turn it down and be pissed off that you even had the nerve to propose it.

 

[XX]

The insiders were saying there’s interest around DeBrusk and he’d bring an asset. He was included only because of his CapHit. That’s it.

I wouldn’t give up an asset for DeBrusk. But it sound like some teams would.

He is on pace for 30 points despite being coddled, doing nothing particularly well, and having a high QO. He's 25. Schmaltz has better odds of "bringing an asset."

Which team has a burning desire to add a $5m inconsistent 30 point winger? in this market? Nobody. That's a Sweeney narrative if I've ever seen one. The dance is pretending your lemons have value while you try to pick something off you actually like. There's a very good chance they don't even qualify DeBrusk if Boston likes their odds with a FA.

 

[rt]

He is on pace for 30 points despite being coddled, doing nothing particularly well, and having a high QO. He's 25. Schmaltz has better odds of "bringing an asset."

Which team has a burning desire to add a $5m inconsistent 30 point winger? in this market? Nobody. That's a Sweeney narrative if I've ever seen one. The dance is pretending your lemons have value while you try to pick something off you actually like. There's a very good chance they don't even qualify DeBrusk if Boston likes their odds with a FA.

They DEFINITELY won’t qualify him. No team would. That number is way too high. I recall the insiders saying interest was real and it would be assets not a dump. I was skeptical. But in this case it may as well be a dump. I have no interest in DeBrusk.

Nonetheless, if you turn my Boston proposal
into a poll, 90% Boston fans will say it favors Arizona unfairly. Neutral fans will be 50/50.

Like you, I’m aware that it sucks. I hate it. I literally had a nightmare a month ago about us trading Chychrun for Knight. I shared that nightmare here and @hbk brought up Swayman and the JFJR connection. I fear my nightmare is coming true.

Moving on — I never actually believed McTavish or Lundell was a real possibility. Now with insiders saying NYR (Schneider) and LAK (Clarke) are out of it, and my favorite “realistic” higher-end pieces now off the table, I’m all aboard the Seth Jarvis train.

Not really ecstatic about a tiny winger for Chychrun. But Jarvis is a loveable tiny winger. I’d say I’m also hopeful on the Ceulemans+1st idea, but I just don’t understand why CBJ would be in on this.

This is my new dream:

Chychrun (50%) & Travis Boyd for Ian Cole (dump), Seth Jarvis, Scott Morrow and a ‘23 1st

^ maybe add a conditional 3rd in ‘23 from AZ that gets dropped altogether if CAR reaches either of the the next two ECFs.

 

[XX]

Like you, I’m aware that it sucks. I hate it. I literally had a nightmare a month ago about us trading Chychrun for Knight. I shared that nightmare here and @hbk brought up Swayman and the JFJR connection. I fear my nightmare is coming true.

You jumped the shark when you added Moore and Kessel to it. Like that's just needlessly panicky. BA isn't that stupid and hasn't stooped to that level. He doesn't 'fall in love' with singular assets like Swayman if it means getting hosed. Add Lohrei and another pick, we're getting closer. I can stomach some cap junk as a transactional cost because that's the life of the Coyotes.

But to date, BA hasn't been taken to the cleaners. He hasn't blinked. GMs are playing games in the media and he isn't going to give two shits. Fear is irrational at this point.

 

[rt]

You jumped the shark when you added Moore and Kessel to it. Like that's just needlessly panicky. BA isn't that stupid and hasn't stooped to that level. He doesn't 'fall in love' with singular assets like Swayman if it means getting hosed. Add Lohrei and another pick, we're getting closer. I can stomach some cap junk as a transactional cost because that's the life of the Coyotes.

But to date, BA hasn't been taken to the cleaners. He hasn't blinked. GMs are playing games in the media and he isn't going to give two shits. Fear is irrational at this point.

I hope you’re right. And also you missed my ninja edit. Please comment on my Jarvis idea.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Wasn't it one of the hockey writers, (McKenzie?) who wrote that BA's ask was a 1st, a top prospect and an NHL ready player? As to whether that's accurate or not, who knows? Clearly there is little downside to just keeping Chychryun, so BA demands a premium. Regardless of what is posted here (or there) the market will be the measure. What BA gets is what he deserves to get for Chychrun, or Chychrun's simply more valuable to our team than to other teams.

As for me I would trade Chychrun straight up for Lundell.

 

[XX]

Chychrun (50%) & Travis Boyd for Ian Cole (dump), Seth Jarvis, Scott Morrow and a ‘23 1st

^ maybe add a conditional 3rd in ‘23 from AZ that gets dropped altogether if CAR reaches either of the the next two ECFs.

Change Cole to Gardiner. Cole is a veteran asset in the playoffs, Gardiner isn't and is on the books. The 1-2-3 punch of a 23rd 1st, taking a dump, and adding Boyd warrants another consideration from Carolina. They have a bunch of U21 assets.

 

[lanky]

I suspect CBJ is interested in Chychrun because they want to show their young core that they want to win. If Domi walks this summer and Laine walks a year later, their whole plan kinda crumbles away.

 

[rt]

Change Cole to Gardiner. Cole is a veteran asset in the playoffs, Gardiner isn't and is on the books. The 1-2-3 punch of a 23rd 1st, taking a dump, and adding Boyd warrants another consideration from Carolina. They have a bunch of U21 assets.

Aren’t they free of Gardiner due to LTIR? I honestly have no idea how all that works. But I think he’s perms LTIR. Either way, it works for me if it works for them. How about Bokk? He’s bordering on complete bust but BA drafted him and BA loved him once.

 

[rt]

Wasn't it one of the hockey writers, (McKenzie?) who wrote that BA's ask was a 1st, a top prospect and an NHL ready player? As to whether that's accurate or not, who knows? Clearly there is little downside to just keeping Chychryun, so BA demands a premium. Regardless of what is posted here (or there) the market will be the measure. What BA gets is what he deserves to get for Chychrun, or Chychrun's simply more valuable to our team than to other teams.

As for me I would trade Chychrun straight up for Lundell.

I think all of us would trade Chychrun for Lundell. I don’t think Zito would.

 

[XX]

Aren’t they free of Gardiner due to LTIR? I honestly have no idea how all that works. But I think he’s perms LTIR. Either way, it works for me if it works for them. How about Bokk? He’s bordering on complete bust but BA drafted him and BA loved him once.

Cap wise I think Skjei needs to come the other way actually. Both short and long term. So if you're going to bend over backwards by retaining on Chych (narrowing the market for Kessel considerably), that's probably the additional value that comes back in return. It lets them take a stab at keeping TDA.

Gardiner hasn't been put out to pasture, just multiple surgeries. If he wants to play they are in a $4m Ladd situation.

Chych (50%), Boyd for Skjei, Jarvis, 1st, Morrow = Roster player, bluechip, 1st, 2nd.

Carolina will probably push Necas into the deal instead. He is owed a raise and they need Jarvis' ELC + Nino walking to sign guys. Might be the one scenario where a team would really like the 50% on Chychrun.