Rumor: Chychrun Megathread (Asking price has been met per Sportsnet)

[rt]

I mean, sure -- but if you're taking defensive draws (which Lundell is) and if you end up losing the draw clean (no idea if this is happening) then you're likely giving up a high danger scoring chance. An extra high danger scoring chance per game means an extra goal against every 5 or 6 games which adds up over a season and / or playoff run.

I'm not trying to argue faceoffs are the most important thing in the world, but there's a reason all of the top defensive centers (Bergeron, Toews, ROR etc) are great on draws, they do matter. There's a reason Crosby spent his first few offseasons working on his faceoffs until he got to about 55%... and at the same time there's, no reason Lundell can't also work on his faceoffs and get better (incidentally Barkov did something similar). But to say faceoffs are completely irrelevant is not correct.

Either way, I would agree they are not as important as the other stuff you mentioned, esp for a 20 year old who can / should get better at them with time

All faceoffs are not created equal. I get that. But there are no stats tracked for how good Lundell or anyone else is on “big” faceoffs. And I get that a clean loss is worse than an a 50/50. But again, that’s not tracked. For all I know Lundell only loses close ones and only the least important of them.

My actual point is that a statistic showing a center as being 45% on FOs versus 51% on FOs doesn’t really matter much without context. And even with as much context as is available, it probably still doesn’t matter much.

Those high-level, broadest stroke FO% numbers even at a team level have proven to be fairly insignificant when it comes to game outcomes, IIRC.

Once again, I know that huge faceoffs are huge. I do follow the sport pretty closely, lol. I just glancing at a stat line that says FOW:45% and taking that to be a red-flag is pretty misguided. That’s all. And I’m sure you agree.

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

Didn't Hayton and Dvorak suck at faceoffs at age 20? Then they got really good at them. I think Hayton was our best faceoff guy before he got hurt (It was really the only thing he really impressed me with this season).

If one of the only things to knock Lundell at age 20 on right now is his faceoffs, that's a guy projecting pretty well I'd say

 

[avco]

How ling do you think GMBA will wait before striking a deal or telling Chychrun that he is not being dealt? Can't see this dragging on until the Trade Deadline.

 

[rt]

But to say faceoffs are completely irrelevant is not correct.

This right here actually pisses me off. I missed this the first time. What kind of Jakey 1953 bull crap is this?

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

How ling do you think GMBA will wait before striking a deal or telling Chychrun that he is not being dealt? Can't see this dragging on until the Trade Deadline.

I'm looking at Feb 11. The team has a week long break after that.

 

[rt]

How ling do you think GMBA will wait before striking a deal or telling Chychrun that he is not being dealt? Can't see this dragging on until the Trade Deadline.

Unfortunately, I fear BA would let Chychrun sit there, twisting in the wind, getting pissed off and miserable for three years before trading him finally. It’s one of the main concerns I have about BA. The way he treated Garland was pretty unnecessarily crappy. And it still stings to hear Garland talk about it. Garland is obviously still not over that and probably won’t get over that. There’s too much similarity with John Chayka on that.

 

[Zippy316]

Just out of curiosity, what would the Coyotes be looking for from the Devils? Fitzgerald has already gone all in on Hughes, would be a huge risk but the reward would be a solid D core for a few years.

Smith or Mukhmadullin could realistically be on the table. Would be a risky move, but Devils could potentially put a protected 2021 1st up as well (maybe top 5 protected).

Devils have an excess of forwards at the moment as well. I would only say Hughes, Hischier, Bratt, and Mercer would be completely off the table. Zacha, Johnsson, and Kuokkanen could all get moved. Wood or Sharangovich are possible as well. Holtz would be a hard sell at this point, but not impossible. There’s also a glut of AHL/NHL guys that need opportunity like Boqvist, Zetterlund, Thompson (inj.), and Foote. They’re more like throw-ins but could thrive with opportunity.

 

[lanky]

The difference with the Garland situation is that Bill knew Garland had played his last game as a Coyote. Sure it was rude, but if he told Garland the truth then the agent starts chatting and the trade market might be impacted.

I liken this more to the OEL situation in 2020. Bill was taking offers but he didn't know how it would turn out. With hindsight, we know that OELs value deteriorated and then we got a really bad deal. I hope that if a trade doesn't happen then Bill somehow manages to make Chychrun comfortable here.

 

[PainForShane]

This right here actually pisses me off. I missed this the first time. What kind of Jakey 1953 bull crap is this?

?

That's literally what you said / what I responded to. Actually you said:

That 2C who’s TERRIBLE on FOs has cost you 1/60 FOW. Really does not matter.

To me I still read that sentence (and the argument supporting it) as "faceoffs really do not matter" which is the only reason I responded to your post in the first place. After reading what you wrote later, you obviously know faceoffs can be huge, but that's not what you said initially so... *shrug*.

Anyway I wasn't trying to go after you. I honestly misunderstood your point (my fault) but imo your words weren't clear either (your fault). Honest misunderstanding imo

 

[rt]

?

That's literally what you said / what I responded to. Actually you said:



To me I still read that sentence as "faceoffs really do not matter" which is the only reason I responded to your post in the first place. After reading what you wrote later, you obviously know faceoffs can be huge, but that's not what you said before so... *shrug*.

Anyway I wasn't trying to go after you. I honestly misunderstood your point (my fault) but imo your words weren't clear either (your fault). Honest misunderstanding imo

This is Jakes fault.

 

[PainForShane]

This is Jakes fault.

LOL. Sorry Jakey!

By the way, thx for writing that initial deep dive on Lundell. Really appreciated from over here

 

[rt]

Just out of curiosity, what would the Coyotes be looking for from the Devils? Fitzgerald has already gone all in on Hughes, would be a huge risk but the reward would be a solid D core for a few years.

Smith or Mukhmadullin could realistically be on the table. Would be a risky move, but Devils could potentially put a protected 2021 1st up as well (maybe top 5 protected).

Devils have an excess of forwards at the moment as well. I would only say Hughes, Hischier, Bratt, and Mercer would be completely off the table. Zacha, Johnsson, and Kuokkanen could all get moved. Wood or Sharangovich are possible as well. Holtz would be a hard sell at this point, but not impossible. There’s also a glut of AHL/NHL guys that need opportunity like Boqvist, Zetterlund, Thompson (inj.), and Foote. They’re more like throw-ins but could thrive with opportunity.

I wouldn’t trade Chychrun to the Devils with all those pieces listed as untouchable. You can’t say all the assets you actually like and care about are untouchable and only make the ones you’re a little worried about available. Why would Arizona trade an absolute stud young blueliner on a sweetheart deal for your leftovers?

If you want to actually have a shot, you’ll ditch the idea of Top5 protection on that pick. You can put Top2 protection on it, but if the pick slides a year because you win the lottery, Arizona needs to be paid HANDSOMELY for the inconvenience. I’m talking about your 2nd this year AND your 2nd next year if that pick sides because you guys win a lottery. Not going to watch an 8th overall this year become an 18th overall next year, without proper compensation.

Honestly, that’s needlessly complicating things. You’ve already taken two centers 1st overall in the last few years. You don’t need to do it again. Wright and Cooley are going to go 1st and 2nd. That’s not even what New Jersey needs.

If you want Chychrun, I want Ty Smith and your unprotected 1st and then we can talk about what else needs to be involved.

 

[Jagged Ice]

Bratt is the only one I'm even slightly interested in. New Jersey isn't a trading partner for Chychrun. How is Mercer untouchable for Chychrun?

 

[Jakey53]

Honestly I'd do Chychrun+Lundell 1:1. Reminds me of the Jones for Johansen deal, although Johansen was more developed by that point

Not a chance.

 

[Jakey53]

Just what I don't want, a 2C. We have Guenther, and behind him Hayton. 2C and 3C. I want 1C potential, or why bother trading our very young and cost controlled 1D?

Someone is talking some sense here.

 

[LosPollosHermanos]

Just out of curiosity, what would the Coyotes be looking for from the Devils? Fitzgerald has already gone all in on Hughes, would be a huge risk but the reward would be a solid D core for a few years.

Smith or Mukhmadullin could realistically be on the table. Would be a risky move, but Devils could potentially put a protected 2021 1st up as well (maybe top 5 protected).

Devils have an excess of forwards at the moment as well. I would only say Hughes, Hischier, Bratt, and Mercer would be completely off the table. Zacha, Johnsson, and Kuokkanen could all get moved. Wood or Sharangovich are possible as well. Holtz would be a hard sell at this point, but not impossible. There’s also a glut of AHL/NHL guys that need opportunity like Boqvist, Zetterlund, Thompson (inj.), and Foote. They’re more like throw-ins but could thrive with opportunity.

This is such a typical “I want your quality player that will help us for years to come, but all of our best assets are off the table” post.
We don’t want your scraps for our best player lol

Yotes counter with Larson, Roussel, lybushkin and a 7th for Hischier and a 1st

 

[Jakey53]

I think I can help.

Anton Lundell is on pace for “only” 50 points. But this is as a 20 year old rookie. It’s his very first 38 games in North America, even. No adjustment period. Now that he’s getting more comfortable, in his last 15 games he has 13 points, which is 70 point pace. That’s obviously a small sample. But he’s shown that he produces when he gets comfortable.

For example, Last year in Liiga, he was one of the most productive forwards in the league. he had 25pts in 26gp. That was good for 5th in the league in points per game among players with at least 20gp. And good for 1st among players under age 25. He was 19 years old the whole time.

So while his production in Finland is outstanding and he’s heating up in a small sample in Florida, points aren’t everything. He’s also leading ALL NHL forwards (not just rookies and not just Panthers) in takeaways. And he’s tied for 2nd among ALL forwards in the NHL in blocked shots, as well. He’s 4th among ALL NHL forwards in PK minutes played. He’s been extremely impressive, despite starting in the D zone the majority of the time, also.

Jake said earlier in this thread that Lundell was a winger and was sheltered. He has the 2nd most faceoffs on the Panthers and starts the majority of the time in the D zone. He’s 100% a center and he couldn’t be less sheltered. Jake just makes crap up.

I stand corrected, Lundell is playing C.

 

[BAdvocate]

I have no concerns that Chychrun has any negative thoughts about how BA is handling this. This is pretty identical to how Dvorak was traded, and after all was said and done, BA remarked how professional Dvo was throughout the process that eventually led to his trade. Chychrun understands the business and will deal with it just like Dvorak did. One of the reasons I wish we still had Dvorak and don't want to see Chychrun go either.

 

[Jakey53]

?

That's literally what you said / what I responded to. Actually you said:



To me I still read that sentence (and the argument supporting it) as "faceoffs really do not matter" which is the only reason I responded to your post in the first place. After reading what you wrote later, you obviously know faceoffs can be huge, but that's not what you said initially so... *shrug*.

Anyway I wasn't trying to go after you. I honestly misunderstood your point (my fault) but imo your words weren't clear either (your fault). Honest misunderstanding imo

rt keeps on moving the goal posts.

 

[Jakey53]

LOL. Sorry Jakey!

By the way, thx for writing that initial deep dive on Lundell. Really appreciated from over here

It's always my fault.

 

[rt]

rt keeps on moving the goal posts.

Literally never once.

 

[Panteras]

You're trading for a young borderline 1D on a great contract. Panthers in particular are up against the cap with Barkov and Carter V getting big raises next year and presumably Huberdeau the year after.

If you guys really are cup contenders, imo you'd need to get better defensive depth to compete with TOR and TB who you'll see in the playoffs. A top pair of Chych / Ekblad would go a long way, or put him on your second pair with Gudas if you want to keep Weegar and Ekblad together. Either way you've solved your problem. You could also probably use this deal to offload some cap, then you've partly solved that problem too.

So yeah, Chych's contract is really what you're trading for imo because he improves your team for multiple cup runs.

Anyway in your opinion, how else would you upgrade your team, or do you think you're ready as is to compete with TOR / TB over a 7 game playoff series? You tell us, you're the Panthers fan we're just random people living in the desert (and far away from Stanley Cup Contention)

P.S. interesting you used Pronger as an example, I seem to recall an even younger / less developed Chris Pronger (much worse stats than Chychrun at trade time) traded straight up for prime Brendan Shanahan back in the day

I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but giving up Lundell who’s already playing like a guy that’s been in the league for years getting PK minutes and all and is essentially a mini Barkov, that’s just too much to give up to fill a hole that could be filled by a rental. A guy like Giordano or something could be a more reasonable trade for us as to not give up as many assets for a franchise that’s already suffered for almost 30 years. At this point I’m ok with being patient and if we have a couple of heartbreaks like Tampa and Caps had in the playoffs to finally reach the promise land I’m ok with that. Chych and Ekblad are very much alike, we need a responsible no nonsense shutdown D with experience for a deep playoff run, that’s why a rental like Gio as I said makes more sense.

 

[RABBIT]

Insider Trading:

- Toronto has kicked tires on Chyc, but seems like a tough fit. LA, FLA, BOS, ANA, STL all teams considered to have strong interest. Dreger confirms there are 4 components needed in this trade, and says Armstrong has time on his side so will take his time to wait on the best offer.

 

[GhostofYotesFan47]

Just out of curiosity, what would the Coyotes be looking for from the Devils? Fitzgerald has already gone all in on Hughes, would be a huge risk but the reward would be a solid D core for a few years.

Smith or Mukhmadullin could realistically be on the table. Would be a risky move, but Devils could potentially put a protected 2021 1st up as well (maybe top 5 protected).

Devils have an excess of forwards at the moment as well. I would only say Hughes, Hischier, Bratt, and Mercer would be completely off the table. Zacha, Johnsson, and Kuokkanen could all get moved. Wood or Sharangovich are possible as well. Holtz would be a hard sell at this point, but not impossible. There’s also a glut of AHL/NHL guys that need opportunity like Boqvist, Zetterlund, Thompson (inj.), and Foote. They’re more like throw-ins but could thrive with opportunity.

I'm thinking it has to be Mercer. We can help alleviate the loss but we need a high quality asset playing an important position to sell Chychrun. Chychrun is a top pairing defenseman, even if another team has 3 players ahead of him on the depth chart, that just means that have 3 top pairing defenseman and are adding a 4th. He's on a great contract for a 20+ minute a night, offensively leaning, 2 way defenseman for 3 more years.

Mercer needs to be the centerpiece or we need your 1st with max top 2 protection and an add. That's my opinion at least.

Sorry if that came off at all rude, wasn't the intent. I think the low ball offers from stat watchers are starting to get to me, those are some BS Chychrun takes on the main board.

 

[RABBIT]

We have 54 more days left until the trade deadline. Hope this doesn't go the distance, this is exhausting.