Rumor: Chychrun Megathread (Asking price has been met per Sportsnet)

[GhostofYotesFan47]

Chychrun for Lundell 1:1 ?

I think I'm willing to do that at this point. We lose value but we get the best center we've had in a very long time. Coolie, Lundell, Hayton seems like the kind of depth down that middle that could get us there. Finishing our blue line and adding the best possible wingers could be what puts us over the top.

I have little to no concern about goaltending at this point. Our defense and goaltending are the 2 areas the hockey gods seem to let us have. If we can effectively run 3 2nd lines (low end 1st line/high end 2nd line, average 2nd line, low end 2nd line) of varying skills and a high end 3rd line, I feel really confident in our ability to get to the promise land. I think we have the coach, I think we can finish our blue line, I think we can assemble the necessary depth scoring, we just need to get young centers that fit the MO.

Lundell = O'Reilly
Coolie = ~Schenn
Hayton = Sundqvist

I'm almost thinking Chychrun + Jenik + Larsson + Boyd for Lundell + Ludvig + Vatrano + Nutivaara. Jenik, Larsson, and Boyd replace Lundell and Vatrano. Florida gets insane depth up front and on D, to go along with their nutty goaltending. We get our future 1c/2c.

Weegar - Ekblad
Chychrun - Gudas
Forsling - Montour
Carlsson, Priskie

or

Chychrun - Ekblad
Forsling - Weegar
Montour - Gudas
Carlsson, Priskie

 

[IrishFin]

Honestly I'd do Chychrun+Lundell 1:1. Reminds me of the Jones for Johansen deal, although Johansen was more developed by that point

They would likely want or need a useful center coming back to help replace Lundell if something like this went down. Boyd or Larsson would need to go back with an additional asset or two on their end. Larsson would likely be the better fit for their needs. The cap would need to work as well. They can't take Chychrun without sending salary back this way.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Just what I don't want, a 2C. We have Guenther, and behind him Hayton. 2C and 3C. I want 1C potential, or why bother trading our very young and cost controlled 1D?

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I absolutely hate trading a very good player for a pick, a lesser player and a bag of pucks. I'd offer Chychrun and one of our firsts for a bonafide 1C.

 

[PainForShane]

Just what I don't want, a 2C. We have Guenther, and behind him Hayton. 2C and 3C. I want 1C potential, or why bother trading our very young and cost controlled 1D?

Exactly. Maybe I'm missing something but why are we all happy trading a 1D for a future 2C? That's not how you make your team better

 

[Nowotny]

Hilarious that Rangers fans think they can get an elite 23 year old blueliner on one of the league’s best non-ELC contracts and they are literally pretending that not only are Lafreniere and Kakko are “untouchable” but Miller is “untouchable” AND Schneider AND Othmann are untouchable. Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

Not just fans..."writers" do it too.I've just seen article at LWOS(William Grigsby) suggesting Kravcov,Chytil(?) and 1st

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

Just what I don't want, a 2C. We have Guenther, and behind him Hayton. 2C and 3C. I want 1C potential, or why bother trading our very young and cost controlled 1D?

We're (possibly) getting our 1C potential this draft and next. Don't need to trade for it. Hopefully. God hopefully.

 

[rt]

Exactly. Maybe I'm missing something but why are we all happy trading a 1D for a future 2C? That's not how you make your team better

I think I can help.

Anton Lundell is on pace for “only” 50 points. But this is as a 20 year old rookie. It’s his very first 38 games in North America, even. No adjustment period. Now that he’s getting more comfortable, in his last 15 games he has 13 points, which is 70 point pace. That’s obviously a small sample. But he’s shown that he produces when he gets comfortable.

For example, Last year in Liiga, he was one of the most productive forwards in the league. he had 25pts in 26gp. That was good for 5th in the league in points per game among players with at least 20gp. And good for 1st among players under age 25. He was 19 years old the whole time.

So while his production in Finland is outstanding and he’s heating up in a small sample in Florida, points aren’t everything. He’s also leading ALL NHL forwards (not just rookies and not just Panthers) in takeaways. And he’s tied for 2nd among ALL forwards in the NHL in blocked shots, as well. He’s 4th among ALL NHL forwards in PK minutes played. He’s been extremely impressive, despite starting in the D zone the majority of the time, also.

Jake said earlier in this thread that Lundell was a winger and was sheltered. He has the 2nd most faceoffs on the Panthers and starts the majority of the time in the D zone. He’s 100% a center and he couldn’t be less sheltered. Jake just makes crap up.

 

[PainForShane]

We're (possibly) getting our 1C potential this draft and next. Don't need to trade for it. Hopefully. God hopefully.

Okay... but if we trade Chychrun who will be our 1D, and if we find this person in the draft, will he be ready in 3-4 years as we're coming out of the rebuild? Defensemen take time to develop, or conversely really hard to find via trade -- unless you think Det will trade us Seider for Lundell and parts? Hmm

 

[rt]

Thoughts on this idea?

To FLA:
Chychrun (50%)
Larsson
FLA ‘23 2nd (Stralman)

To ARI:
Lundell
Vatrano
Ludvig
FLA ‘23 1st

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

Thoughts on this idea?

To FLA:
Chychrun (50%)
Larsson
FLA ‘23 3rd (Stralman)

To ARI:
Lundell
Vatrano
Ludvig
FLA ‘23 1st

Any deal that has lundell you take every day of the week. Other parts don't matter

 

[GhostofYotesFan47]

Chychrun for Lundell 1:1 ?

Or to balance needs and cap, let’s say we add Larsson and they get to dump Vatrano on us. This costs them Ludvig. And we eat 50% on Chychrun, which costs them a 1st. Zito basicslly gets Chychrun for Lundell. BA gets to hold his head up and say he got his 1st and prospect too.


Chychrun (50%v) and Larsson for Vatrano, Lundell, Ludvig and ‘23 1st.

I can sign on with that, and would be willing to add Jenik and Boyd to see it happen, despite the fact that I hate us retaining on Chychrun.

 

[IrishFin]

I absolutely hate trading a very good player for a pick, a lesser player and a bag of pucks. I'd offer Chychrun and one of our firsts for a bonafide 1C.

Throw out some ideas. What bonafide 1C's are available for trade? Lundell could easily grow into being something more. Even if he doesn't, Lundell would still likely be much better than our former "1C" in Dvorak.

 

[GhostofYotesFan47]

I think I can help.

Anton Lundell is on pace for “only” 50 points. But this is as a 20 year old rookie. It’s his very first 38 games in North America, even. No adjustment period. Now that he’s getting more comfortable, in his last 15 games he has 13 points, which is 70 point pace. That’s obviously a small sample. But he’s shown that he produces when he gets comfortable.

For example, Last year in Liiga, he was one of the most productive forwards in the league. he had 25pts in 26gp. That was good for 5th in the league in points per game among players with at least 20gp. And good for 1st among players under age 25. He was 19 years old the whole time.

So while his production in Finland is outstanding and he’s heating up in a small sample in Florida, points aren’t everything. He’s also leading ALL NHL forwards (not just rookies and not just Panthers) in takeaways. And he’s tied for 2nd among ALL forwards in the NHL in blocked shots, as well. He’s 4th among ALL NHL forwards in PK minutes played. He’s been extremely impressive, despite starting in the D zone the majority of the time, also.

Jake said earlier in this thread that Lundell was a winger and was sheltered. He has the 2nd most faceoffs on the Panthers and starts the majority of the time in the D zone. He’s 100% a center and he couldn’t be less sheltered. Jake just makes crap up.

This exactly. I couldn't have articulated it better.

There is still a lot of betting on potential here but the risk is well worth the reward.

Wright/Coolie
Lundell
Hayton/Jenik

That is Stanley Cup Contender center depth.

 

[rt]

Throw out some ideas. What bonafide 1C's are available for trade? Lundell could easily grow into being something more. Even if he doesn't, Lundell would still likely be much better than our former "1C" in Dvorak.

I liked Lundell better than Kakko in the international tournies prior to Kakko’s draft year (obviously KK had a huge U20 in his DY). I thought he was a for sure Top3 pick. But the scouting reports in his draft year questioned his offensive upside and he slid. I didn’t get to watch his league play. But I always thought he was super impressive in the international tournies.

Really, his offensive ceiling was only considered an issue in his draft year. Wasn’t much of a worry prior or after from what I can tell and in that season, he was 5th in points per game among players 21 years old or younger. He was 18. He was 2nd for players under 20.

 

[GhostofYotesFan47]

This exactly. I couldn't have articulated it better.

There is still a lot of betting on potential here but the risk is well worth the reward.

Wright/Coolie
Lundell
Hayton/Jenik

That is Stanley Cup Contender center depth.

This also only applies to Lundell, not Turcotte, not McTavsh (my man crush hurts ), or any other centers that have been named. Lundell is the only one I'm currently willing to make an exception to the asking price for.

 

[rt]

This also only applies to Lundell, not Turcotte, not McTavsh (my man crush hurts ), or any other centers that have been named. Lundell is the only one I'm currently willing to make an exception to the asking price for.

If be willing to go pretty darn close to 1:1 for McTavish, too.

 

[PainForShane]

I think I can help.

Anton Lundell is on pace for “only” 50 points. But this is as a 20 year old rookie. It’s his very first 38 games in North America, even. No adjustment period. Now that he’s getting more comfortable, in his last 15 games he has 13 points, which is 70 point pace. That’s obviously a small sample. But he’s shown that he produces when he gets comfortable.

For example, Last year in Liiga, he was one of the most productive forwards in the league. he had 25pts in 26gp. That was good for 5th in the league in points per game among players with at least 20gp. And good for 1st among players under age 25. He was 19 years old the whole time.

So while his production in Finland is outstanding and he’s heating up in a small sample in Florida, points aren’t everything. He’s also leading ALL NHL forwards (not just rookies and not just Panthers) in takeaways. And he’s tied for 2nd among ALL forwards in the NHL in blocked shots, as well. He’s 4th among ALL NHL forwards in PK minutes played. He’s been extremely impressive, despite starting in the D zone the majority of the time, also.

Jake said earlier in this thread that Lundell was a winger and was sheltered. He has the 2nd most faceoffs on the Panthers and starts the majority of the time in the D zone. He’s 100% a center and he couldn’t be less sheltered. Jake just makes crap up.

Ok that all makes sense, thx for sharing / providing context. Did a quick deeper dive in to the fancy stats too. He's actually 2nd amongst forwards in PK time (2 ppl ahead of him are not really full-time nhl players), and his blocked shots are actually more impressive because he only averages 16:30 a night (he's tied with Kopi who plays more and has also played more games). So, he is a good player and like you said he is young.

But, he has some warts. His faceoff percentage is horrible (<45%), and his relative Corsi / Fenwick is about -10%, which is bad but can partly be explained by tons of defensive zone starts (>60%). And besides if he were actually bad defensively he wouldn't be getting so much shorthanded time. Still though, that faceoff percentage worries me.

All this put together he seems like a poor man's Bergeron / Toews / Ryan O'Reilly... or more accurately maybe a poor man's Barkov since they're both Finnish and on the same team. In other words a core piece but maybe not a franchise - level player, at least not yet. But, he's still only 20 so plenty of room to grow.

Thanks for the context. If Lundell is actually a future 1C, then the 1D for 1C trade makes more sense. But, we have a really good player in Chychrun and I think we are all taking him too much for granted, Stanley Cup contending teams need a strong top 4 as well and ideally a strong 1D (kind of like Chychrun)

 

[rt]

Okay... but if we trade Chychrun who will be our 1D, and if we find this person in the draft, will he be ready in 3-4 years as we're coming out of the rebuild? Defensemen take time to develop, or conversely really hard to find via trade -- unless you think Det will trade us Seider for Lundell and parts? Hmm

Well. We’re gonna finish 2nd to last and lose both lotteries, leaving us at 4th overall.

So I say make this trade:

To FLA:
Chychrun (50%)
Larsson
FLA ‘23 2nd (Stralman)

To ARI:
Lundell
Vatrano
Ludvig
FLA ‘23 1st

…and then pick Simon Nemec 4th overall (he’s got 11pts in 10gp since the WJC got cancelled).

 

[GhostofYotesFan47]

If be willing to go pretty darn close to 1:1 for McTavish, too.

Oh God, my heart can't take it lol. That kid is soo good at hockey. I'm willing to bet he has a similar impact to Lundell for the Ducks next year.

 

[GhostofYotesFan47]

Ok that all makes sense, thx for sharing / providing context. Did a quick deeper dive in to the fancy stats too. He's actually 2nd amongst forwards in PK time (2 ppl ahead of him are not really full-time nhl players), and his blocked shots are actually more impressive because he only averages 16:30 a night (he's tied with Kopi who plays more and has also played more games). So, he is a good player and like you said he is young.

But, he has some warts. His faceoff percentage is horrible (<45%), and his relative Corsi / Fenwick is about -10%, which is bad but can partly be explained by tons of defensive zone starts (>60%). And besides if he were actually bad defensively he wouldn't be getting so much shorthanded time. Still though, that faceoff percentage worries me.

All this put together he seems like a poor man's Bergeron / Toews / Ryan O'Reilly... or more accurately maybe a poor man's Barkov since they're both Finnish and on the same team. In other words a core piece but maybe not a franchise - level player, at least not yet. But, he's still only 20 so plenty of room to grow.

Thanks for the context. If Lundell is actually a future 1C, then the 1D for 1C trade makes more sense. But, we have a really good player in Chychrun and I think we are all taking him too much for granted, Stanley Cup contending teams need a strong top 4 as well and ideally a strong 1D (kind of like Chychrun)

My hope is for a Barzal/O'Rielly hybrid. Just an absolute animal and while he may not get elite points, his other on ice contributions make him indispensable.

 

[PainForShane]

My hope is for a Barzal/O'Rielly hybrid. Just an absolute animal and while he may not get elite points, his other on ice contributions make him indispensable.

Yeah that makes sense. If you think this kid might be the next Barzal while also being ROR on the defensive end then you have to trade for him if you can.

Personally I am not ready to be 100% convinced (Chych is so good!!!) but thanks everyone for sharing your points of view on why Lundell is so attractive. Much appreciated over here and a lot to think over

 

[rt]

Ok that all makes sense, thx for sharing / providing context. Did a quick deeper dive in to the fancy stats too. He's actually 2nd amongst forwards in PK time (2 ppl ahead of him are not really full-time nhl players), and his blocked shots are actually more impressive because he only averages 16:30 a night (he's tied with Kopi who plays more and has also played more games). So, he is a good player and like you said he is young.

But, he has some warts. His faceoff percentage is horrible (<45%), and his relative Corsi / Fenwick is about -10%, which is bad but can partly be explained by tons of defensive zone starts (>60%). And besides if he were actually bad defensively he wouldn't be getting so much shorthanded time. Still though, that faceoff percentage worries me.

All this put together he seems like a poor man's Bergeron / Toews / Ryan O'Reilly... or more accurately maybe a poor man's Barkov since they're both Finnish and on the same team. In other words a core piece but maybe not a franchise - level player, at least not yet. But, he's still only 20 so plenty of room to grow.

Thanks for the context. If Lundell is actually a future 1C, then the 1D for 1C trade makes more sense. But, we have a really good player in Chychrun and I think we are all taking him too much for granted, Stanley Cup Contending teams need a strong top 4 as well

44% FO% is completely fine for a single centerman on a team.

The average NHL team takes 60FOs per game. Let’s say in an average game it’s like 1C=19 2C=17 3C=15 4C=9

1C wins 10 loses 9 = 52.6%
2C wins 8 loses 9 = 47.1%
3C wins 8 loses 7 = 53.3%
4C wins 5 loses 4 = 55.6%

That 2C who’s TERRIBLE on FOs has cost you 1/60 FOW. Really does not matter.

^ this is what Jake can’t understand.

 

[rt]

My hope is for a Barzal/O'Rielly hybrid. Just an absolute animal and while he may not get elite points, his other on ice contributions make him indispensable.

I could see O’Rielly. Not so much the Barzal, though. Lundell’s skating has never impressed me much. But I think ROR makes sense.

 

[PainForShane]

44% FO% is completely fine for a single centerman on a team.

The average NHL team takes 60FOs per game. Let’s say in an average game it’s like 1C=19 2C=17 3C=15 4C=9

1C wins 10 loses 9 = 52.6%
2C wins 8 loses 9 = 47.1%
3C wins 8 loses 7 = 53.3%
4C wins 5 loses 4 = 55.6%

That 2C who’s TERRIBLE on FOs has cost you 1/60 FOW. Really does not matter.

^ this is what Jake can’t understand.

I mean, sure -- but if you're taking defensive draws (which Lundell is) and if you end up losing the draw clean (no idea if this is happening) then you're likely giving up a high danger scoring chance. An extra high danger scoring chance per game means an extra goal against every 5 or 6 games which adds up over a season and / or playoff run.

I'm not trying to argue faceoffs are the most important thing in the world, but there's a reason all of the top defensive centers (Bergeron, Toews, ROR etc) are great on draws. There's a reason Crosby spent his first few offseasons working on his faceoffs until he got to about 55% (Barkov did something similar after a few years in the league), and I'd expect Lundell to work on his faceoffs / get better at some point in his career. But to say faceoffs are completely irrelevant is not correct.

Either way, I would agree they are not as important as the other stuff you mentioned, esp for a 20 year old who can / should / likely will get better at them with time