Chychrun’s Megathread V (poll added)

[Sinurgy]

If Chychrun wants out, it's looking more and more like he's going to need to kick ass to start the season and play his way off the team as it's pretty clear BA is going with the Sakic approach on this one, he has a price and either it's met or Chychrun stays a Yote. Chychrun going to need to up his own stock because apparently at this point the Coyotes still value him more than other teams do.

 

[rt]

If Chychrun wants out, it's looking more and more like he's going to need to kick ass to start the season and play his way off the team as it's pretty clear BA is going with the Sakic approach on this one, he has a price and either it's met or Chychrun stays a Yote. Chychrun going to need to up his own stock because apparently at this point the Coyotes still value him more than other teams do.

The entry draft was one deadline. Training camp is the next deadline. Trades don’t happen without deadlines. It was never going to happen between the draft and maybe two weeks before camp at most.

 

[cobra427]

If Chychrun wants out, it's looking more and more like he's going to need to kick ass to start the season and play his way off the team as it's pretty clear BA is going with the Sakic approach on this one, he has a price and either it's met or Chychrun stays a Yote. Chychrun going to need to up his own stock because apparently at this point the Coyotes still value him more than other teams do.

So, BA says play well and I'll trade you. Chych can say, trade me or I'll sit out the start of the season. Chych wants out and BA wants him gone. With BA finding out market value is nowhere near what he thinks, this could backfire on BA. He is playing with fire now. Chych can sit out, play poorly, or get injured, none of which improves his trade value. Its pretty wishful thinking to say "ok Chych if you play real well, then we will trade you". That isn't going to motivate Chych. He has to be sick of being shopped for the last 8 months. This isn't a contract year for Chych, if it was then his motivation might be different and much better.

 

[Canis Latrans]

So, BA says play well and I'll trade you. Chych can say, trade me or I'll sit out the start of the season. Chych wants out and BA wants him gone. With BA finding out market value is nowhere near what he thinks, this could backfire on BA. He is playing with fire now. Chych can sit out, play poorly, or get injured, none of which improves his trade value. Its pretty wishful thinking to say "ok Chych if you play real well, then we will trade you". That isn't going to motivate Chych. He has to be sick of being shopped for the last 8 months. This isn't a contract year for Chych, if it was then his motivation might be different and much better.

It's not a zero-sum game here. It's in Chychrun and the team's interest for him to do well. If he does, his price will be met and he'll get to go to a competitive team. If he doesn't, it backfires for him and it becomes not worthwhile to trade him at all, so he's playing poorly, on a team that doesn't show off his full potential, and he's killing his years before his best chance to secure what is likely going to be his career's defining contract when he hits free agency in a few years.

The team wants him to do well for obvious reasons, and if he is still determined that he needs to go elsewhere, they'll trade him and get some value. It makes no sense to trade him because he's pouting, but not producing. That just shows every other player coming through that you don't have to commit to playing on the team (I'm fully aware he's put up with a lot of poor play already on the team and that's why he's in the situation, but you don't want that to become commonplace now that the team is fully committed to building the right way).

Look at this from the perspective of a general manager as well. You do not want to gain the reputation that other teams can just wait you out without some sort of stimulus such as actual games played, a trade deadline, or injuries. The price is currently set, and nothing is going to change that from the Coyotes' perspective. Long after this is over, Armstrong doesn't need it hanging over head that he isn't firm on his desires for a trade and you can just wait him out.

In the end, no one is looking to spite the other side. If a trade is to be made, it has to make sense for all parties.

 

[Fyreman]

I'll be short, he'll be gone by the TDL...

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

He'll be on injured reserve lol

 

[Fyreman]

He'll be on injured reserve lol

That's funny, strong work...

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

That's funny, strong work...

He's missed 28% of the last 5 seasons. Just playing the odds.

 

[Fyreman]

He's missed 28% of the last 5 seasons. Just playing the odds.

Well, he's in the right place to play the "odds."

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

I hope to god I'm wrong, but I just can't stop my pessimism on Chychrun and how I see this ending. I try not to comment on in on it all the time or be a 'Debbie Downer' but I have my moments of weakness lol.

 

[cobra427]

He's missed 28% of the last 5 seasons. Just playing the odds.

And thats more than Martin Hanzal in 5 years!

 

[cobra427]

It's not a zero-sum game here. It's in Chychrun and the team's interest for him to do well. If he does, his price will be met and he'll get to go to a competitive team. If he doesn't, it backfires for him and it becomes not worthwhile to trade him at all, so he's playing poorly, on a team that doesn't show off his full potential, and he's killing his years before his best chance to secure what is likely going to be his career's defining contract when he hits free agency in a few years.

The team wants him to do well for obvious reasons, and if he is still determined that he needs to go elsewhere, they'll trade him and get some value. It makes no sense to trade him because he's pouting, but not producing. That just shows every other player coming through that you don't have to commit to playing on the team (I'm fully aware he's put up with a lot of poor play already on the team and that's why he's in the situation, but you don't want that to become commonplace now that the team is fully committed to building the right way).

Look at this from the perspective of a general manager as well. You do not want to gain the reputation that other teams can just wait you out without some sort of stimulus such as actual games played, a trade deadline, or injuries. The price is currently set, and nothing is going to change that from the Coyotes' perspective. Long after this is over, Armstrong doesn't need it hanging over head that he isn't firm on his desires for a trade and you can just wait him out.

In the end, no one is looking to spite the other side. If a trade is to be made, it has to make sense for all parties.

If he doesn't play well and/or gets injured, it backfires for the team too. He is always injured and had one good goal scoring year over a year ago. What are the odds that he plays well and doesn't get injured? He is not pouting yet, but he might be if he is still here at the start of the season. There is risk he could hold out too, that will make this a bigger mess.

The price can be set at whatever you want, it is meaningless. Obviously BA can't get his price. Thats because it's too high. It's not going to magically change unless Chych stays healthy, improves his D play and puts up a fair amount of points this year up to the TDL. Those are long odds, not 50/50 but maybe 80/20 against. Then his value goes down some more. BA isn't smarter than other GM's, he hasn't fleeced anyone yet on a trade.

Trades happen when both sides get fair value. BA is way over valuing Chych right now, over playing his hand in my opinion, he has waited too long. I hope I am wrong but it is a slippery slope with a more than likely outcome of destroying more value.

 

[Baby Doaner]

I'll be short, he'll be gone by the TDL...

Which year?

 

[Coyotedroppings]

So, BA says play well and I'll trade you. Chych can say, trade me or I'll sit out the start of the season. Chych wants out and BA wants him gone. With BA finding out market value is nowhere near what he thinks, this could backfire on BA. He is playing with fire now. Chych can sit out, play poorly, or get injured, none of which improves his trade value. Its pretty wishful thinking to say "ok Chych if you play real well, then we will trade you". That isn't going to motivate Chych. He has to be sick of being shopped for the last 8 months. This isn't a contract year for Chych, if it was then his motivation might be different and much better.

Why? Does he come off as a wimpy little prick to you?

 

[cobra427]

Why? Does he come off as a wimpy little prick to you?

I didn't say that at all, and I don't believe that. He is a young person, being in trade rumors is hard on you. I know many former NHL players, I am good friends with a few of them. The first time you get traded and all the rumors is the toughest, and this one has dragged on since January at least, so 9 months. I think it is difficult for a young player to set all that noise aside, not let it effect him, and play his game.

For a vet, it's a different story, look at Kessel last year, 52 points on a crappy team, he basically played pretty well, even though he was being shopped. He had been traded a few times before, been in the NHL a long time, being traded wouldn't be a new experience for him. I like Chych, I think he is a very good 3/4D that could be a top pairing D if his D improves and he stays healthy. I have said many times that BA mishandled the situation by not making sure Chych was ok with the plan and staying. I'm speculating but I think the exits of DVO/Garland, other young players caused Chych to say he wants out. I think BA told him we are building and keeping young guys.

I would like nothing more than for Chych to play well, stay healthy, still be a Coyote or we get a kings ransom for him at the TDL. i just don't think its realistic given the circumstances.

 

[hbk]

So, BA says play well and I'll trade you. Chych can say, trade me or I'll sit out the start of the season. Chych wants out and BA wants him gone. With BA finding out market value is nowhere near what he thinks, this could backfire on BA. He is playing with fire now. Chych can sit out, play poorly, or get injured, none of which improves his trade value. Its pretty wishful thinking to say "ok Chych if you play real well, then we will trade you". That isn't going to motivate Chych. He has to be sick of being shopped for the last 8 months. This isn't a contract year for Chych, if it was then his motivation might be different and much better.

Sit out the season and we toll his contract and he loses a year of UFA. Sit out part of the season and it kills Chychrun's reputation as a player (only wants to be in a good situation for himself). He ain't sitting out.

 

[lanky]

I agree that there's little chance of Chychrun threatening to sit. He's ultra competitive, which is the reason for his trade request.

I do believe he sat out the end of the season after healing his ankle but I'm sure the Coyotes were ok with that call.

 

[rt]

I agree that there's little chance of Chychrun threatening to sit. He's ultra competitive, which is the reason for his trade request.

I do believe he sat out the end of the season after healing his ankle but I'm sure the Coyotes were ok with that call.

I also believe there was a mutual decision to allow him to stay home at the end of the year.

 

[Nowotny]

So, BA says play well and I'll trade you. Chych can say, trade me or I'll sit out the start of the season. Chych wants out and BA wants him gone. With BA finding out market value is nowhere near what he thinks, this could backfire on BA. He is playing with fire now. Chych can sit out, play poorly, or get injured, none of which improves his trade value. Its pretty wishful thinking to say "ok Chych if you play real well, then we will trade you". That isn't going to motivate Chych. He has to be sick of being shopped for the last 8 months. This isn't a contract year for Chych, if it was then his motivation might be different and much better.

Arizona already has plenty of young players who can develop into solid bottom six forwards/3rd pairing defenseman and there is no reason to get more.If all they can get is a "package" of those kind of players there is absolutely no reason for them to make that trade.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

I'm going to come right out and say it. I think that this will all get into Chychrun's head and he'll have another disappointing season. Happy to eat crow, just my prediction.

 

[cobra427]

Sit out the season and we toll his contract and he loses a year of UFA. Sit out part of the season and it kills Chychrun's reputation as a player (only wants to be in a good situation for himself). He ain't sitting out.

I'm not saying he sits out the season. What if he sits out training camp, tells BA trade me or I'm not showing up yet. Then he comes back for the start of the season. It will cause a fiasco. This drama will help force BA to make a move. Basically Chych is dangling in the wind while BA tries to take every last penny off the table. I am saying Chych could sit out a bit of time, then come back, this will be a major disruption forcing BA to make a move sooner than later. Chych doesn't have to be a good citizen, this is why I say there is more risk the longer BA holds on versus his trade value going down some more or things getting uglier.

I hope I am wrong and you guys and BA are all more accurate in the way BA is handling this and the return he will ultimately get. I am just saying the risk is creeping up.

 

[Jakey53]

I'm going to come right out and say it. I think that this will all get into Chychrun's head and he'll have another disappointing season. Happy to eat crow, just my prediction.

Let's not forget that Chychrun has his dad to lean on. His dad knows all about being traded. I'm sure his dad will be giving him a lot of advice. Chychrun is the one that wants out, so I would think he knows it could time as the Yote's are not going to give him away because he wants out. Chychrun could be worth more to the Yote's than what his value to other teams might be.

 

[Jakey53]

I'm not saying he sits out the season. What if he sits out training camp, tells BA trade me or I'm not showing up yet. Then he comes back for the start of the season. It will cause a fiasco. This drama will help force BA to make a move. Basically Chych is dangling in the wind while BA tries to take every last penny off the table. I am saying Chych could sit out a bit of time, then come back, this will be a major disruption forcing BA to make a move sooner than later. Chych doesn't have to be a good citizen, this is why I say there is more risk the longer BA holds on versus his trade value going down some more or things getting uglier.

I hope I am wrong and you guys and BA are all more accurate in the way BA is handling this and the return he will ultimately get. I am just saying the risk is creeping up.

Chych does have to be a good citizen. Chych has NO leverage. If Chych sits out it will only hurt his character and value, while helping the Coyote's tank. Chych signed a contract and I believe he will be at training camp playing his heart out. It was only last year that most wanted Chych as the next captain mostly because of his character, and I don't think he wants to tarnish that. Besides, Chych knows that the best and fastest way out of dodge is for him to play like he did two years ago.

 

[hbk]

I'm not saying he sits out the season. What if he sits out training camp, tells BA trade me or I'm not showing up yet. Then he comes back for the start of the season. It will cause a fiasco. This drama will help force BA to make a move. Basically Chych is dangling in the wind while BA tries to take every last penny off the table. I am saying Chych could sit out a bit of time, then come back, this will be a major disruption forcing BA to make a move sooner than later. Chych doesn't have to be a good citizen, this is why I say there is more risk the longer BA holds on versus his trade value going down some more or things getting uglier.

I hope I am wrong and you guys and BA are all more accurate in the way BA is handling this and the return he will ultimately get. I am just saying the risk is creeping up.

what fiasco? From our one media member? Are we going to go on a prolonged losing streak? If this was a normal season I get your point but this is a tank season. We don't care about distractions.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Let's not forget that Chychrun has his dad to lean on. His dad knows all about being traded. I'm sure his dad will be giving him a lot of advice. Chychrun is the one that wants out, so I would think he knows it could time as the Yote's are not going to give him away because he wants out. Chychrun could be worth more to the Yote's than what his value to other teams might be.

His dad can't keep him off injured reserve or help him stay out of his own head and produce. Chychrun is definitely worth more to us than any other team, that's been made very clear by every team that has "kicked the tires." But he doesn't want to be here and unless he stays healthy and produces his value to us and to other teams will drop significantly.

Edit: I just can't 'bet' on Chychrun doing the two things he has yet to do, which are needed to hold or increase his value. Odds aren't there.