Chychrun’s Megathread V (poll added)

[lanky]

There's no high end prospects in that proposal so I would want 2 1sts.

Sogaard and Kleven are big, I like that. But their stats are just ok.

 

[lanky]

Going back to CBJ because I like Ceulemans and with Boqvist and Jiricek they don't need him as badly.

2023 1st
2024 2nd
Ceulemans
Knazko
Nyquist

 

[jmelm]

That just seems like lousy value.

The point wasn't necessarily to connote fair value, but that you/we should consider the possibility of flipping some later round picks for some higher round picks (like Chicago did in the Hagel trade sending back 2 4th round picks).

Like I said: BA has shown he's all about packaging multiple lower picks for higher picks. I think a similar ideology would hold in a trade -- especially one with the kind of complexity of 3 or 4 pieces that BA wants for Chychrun, and the likelihood of a cap dump (i.e. Zaitsev) coming back.

If it was easy as 2023 1st + 2024 1st + Greig + Zaitsev for Chychrun straight up, then a deal would have been done by now.

However, if it was 2023 1st + 2024 1st + Greig + Zaitsev for Chychrun + 2023 WSH 3rd + 2024 COL 3rd, that might make it easier for OTT to give up those pieces.

That's a different package in that latter example than I mentioned before. But again, that's not a specific proposal of a package that's fair or unfair, but rather to illustrate the idea of swapping some later picks back, which might be necessary to get a deal done.

 

[jmelm]

Just thought of another example of swapping picks: even the Jack Eichel trade had VGK sending a 2nd rounder to BUF and getting their 3rd rounder in return.

So the swapping of picks happens a lot and especially given the absurd number of picks we have, there's a good chance it happens in the Chychrun deal as well.

 

[rt]

Going back to CBJ because I like Ceulemans and with Boqvist and Jiricek they don't need him as badly.

2023 1st
2024 2nd
Ceulemans
Knazko
Nyquist

I’d do that.

 

[AZviaNJ]

I'm preparing for one of two things. One being very underwhelmed by the return on a trade before the season. Second for BA to stick to his ask and not have the trade happen only to have Chychrun play disappointed and disinterested hockey through the first half of the season, get injured again and then feel extremely underwhelmed by the return on the eventual deal.

He already wants out now has been rumored destinations of Ottawa, LA, Anaheim, NYR, Florida, etc for months. Only to comeback and play for the worst team in the league?

Injury history.

Notorious slow starter.

Unhappy camper.

I can’t see any benefit of waiting to move him.

 

[Schemp]

CHYCHRUN FOR THE NORRIS

He already wants out now has been rumored destinations of Ottawa, LA, Anaheim, NYR, Florida, etc for months. Only to comeback and play for the worst team in the league?

Injury history.

Notorious slow starter.

Unhappy camper.

I can’t see any benefit of waiting to move him.

Expecting him to start off hot and healthy!

I can't see any benefit to trading him unless all the assets improve the Coyotes!
We trade him and we'll be looking for a top D for years.

 

[TheLegend]

 

[cobra427]

This is funny! "there isn't a deal on the table to move Chych", really, I guess thats why he is still here then, rocket science. Craig is spewing the coyote mantra, zero objectivity, or at least mentioning here is what critics will say.....

 

[hbk]

This is funny! "there isn't a deal on the table to move Chych", really, I guess thats why he is still here then, rocket science. Craig is spewing the coyote mantra, zero objectivity, or at least mentioning here is what critics will say.....

If you listen to him regularly you know Craig knows more. He has already alluded to a deal being very close at draft and Chychrun trying to pick the place he lands in (and maybe he is to blame for killing the deal at the draft).

 

[rt]

Lou didn’t do a whole lot this off-season. Pretty strange. I will say the three extensions he signed today were all very reasonable aav. Doubt they’re still in on Chychrun with the Romanov acquisition but they’re so hard to predict.

 

[Schemp]

Lou didn’t do a whole lot this off-season. Pretty strange. I will say the three extensions he signed today were all very reasonable aav. Doubt they’re still in on Chychrun with the Romanov acquisition but they’re so hard to predict.

Romanov could be possibly part of the trade

 

[Mangosteen]

Really hope we are not stuck with a broken hearted Chyc

 

[rt]

Romanov could be possibly part of the trade

I don’t think they just traded an early 1st for him and gave him a multi year extension just to move him out in a package before his first shift.

 

[Jakey53]

Really hope we are not stuck with a broken hearted Chyc

The best way for Chycrun to get traded is to play well, like two years ago well. I wish Chychrun would have a change of heart. The Bruins had the same scenario with DeBrusk and St. Louis with Tarasenko, so I don't see a problem with Chychrun playing here. I think DeBrusk changed his mind when they changed coaches, and I think that is the main reason Chychrun wants out.

 

[cobra427]

The best way for Chycrun to get traded is to play well, like two years ago well. I wish Chychrun would have a change of heart. The Bruins had the same scenario with DeBrusk and St. Louis with Tarasenko, so I don't see a problem with Chychrun playing here. I think DeBrusk changed his mind when they changed coaches, and I think that is the main reason Chychrun wants out.

Those were 2 good teams, that helps the players value when they stay. Chych is fighting an uphill battle in AZ. He is being asked to be the number 1D on D and take the toughest assignments when he is really a 3/4D on D. This weighs on him and effects his own production because he is pinned in his own zone so much and we have no fire power. The year he had 19 goals, he was partnered with Goose as a 3/4 D, easier assignments and Goose could stay home and let Chych go up ice. That and some PP goal production that year.

Its tough to replicate, circumstances have changed and he is always injured too. If BA thinks Chych will be magically motivated to play well, and actually plays well given his assignments and this roster, and doesn't get injured, and then his value goes up, I think that is all highly unlikely. Chych's value is on a down slope, don't see that changing, BA hasn't fooled anybody yet.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Those were 2 good teams, that helps the players value when they stay. Chych is fighting an uphill battle in AZ. He is being asked to be the number 1D on D and take the toughest assignments when he is really a 3/4D on D. This weighs on him and effects his own production because he is pinned in his own zone so much and we have no fire power. The year he had 19 goals, he was partnered with Goose as a 3/4 D, easier assignments and Goose could stay home and let Chych go up ice. That and some PP goal production that year.

Its tough to replicate, circumstances have changed and he is always injured too. If BA thinks Chych will be magically motivated to play well, and actually plays well given his assignments and this roster, and doesn't get injured, and then his value goes up, I think that is all highly unlikely. Chych's value is on a down slope, don't see that changing, BA hasn't fooled anybody yet.

Chychrun has yet to play an entire 82 game season. Which also leads me to question the 'bargain value' of Chychrun's contract after factoring in how many games he's missing (103 out of 372 games, or 28% missed since the 2017-18 season!)

There's lots and lots of risk here. We need not one, but two things to happen (production AND staying healthy) for Chychrun to increase his value or even to stay and help this team. One of those things he's never done before, the other he's done once. And it was an abnormal season in general.

2016-17: First NHL season. 68 games played. (Not counted in stats as games missed.)

2017-18: Had knee surgery for an offseason training injury and missed the first 29 games. Then he ended up missing the end of the season too because of another injury. Only 50 out of 82 games played, missed 32 games.

2018-19: Had surgery for torn ACL. Played 53 out of 82 games, missed 29 games.

2019-20: Lower body injury. Played 63 games out of 70, missed 7 games. (Not too bad, but it still adds to the problem.)

2020-21: Played 56 games out of 56. Full season, but a shortened one. This is his only healthy season and it's also his best season.

2021-22: Ankle injury. Played only 47 games out of 82 / Missed 35 games.

I'm worried lol.

 

[Jakey53]

Those were 2 good teams, that helps the players value when they stay. Chych is fighting an uphill battle in AZ. He is being asked to be the number 1D on D and take the toughest assignments when he is really a 3/4D on D. This weighs on him and effects his own production because he is pinned in his own zone so much and we have no fire power. The year he had 19 goals, he was partnered with Goose as a 3/4 D, easier assignments and Goose could stay home and let Chych go up ice. That and some PP goal production that year.

Its tough to replicate, circumstances have changed and he is always injured too. If BA thinks Chych will be magically motivated to play well, and actually plays well given his assignments and this roster, and doesn't get injured, and then his value goes up, I think that is all highly unlikely. Chych's value is on a down slope, don't see that changing, BA hasn't fooled anybody yet.

My point was that Chychrun will play to the best of his capabilities if he is not traded. I disagree that Chychrun's value is on a down slope. BA is asking for the moon and he should as Chychrun is our best trading chip.

 

[Schemp]

Chychrun has yet to play an entire 82 game season. Which also leads me to question the 'bargain value' of Chychrun's contract after factoring in how many games he's missing (103 out of 372 games, or 28% missed since the 2017-18 season!)

There's lots and lots of risk here. We need not one, but two things to happen (production AND staying healthy) for Chychrun to increase his value or even to stay and help this team. One of those things he's never done before, the other he's done once. And it was an abnormal season in general.

2016-17: First NHL season. 68 games played. (Not counted in stats as games missed.)

2017-18: Had knee surgery for an offseason training injury and missed the first 29 games. Then he ended up missing the end of the season too because of another injury. Only 50 out of 82 games played, missed 32 games.

2018-19: Had surgery for torn ACL. Played 53 out of 82 games, missed 29 games.

2019-20: Lower body injury. Played 63 games out of 70, missed 7 games. (Not too bad, but it still adds to the problem.)

2020-21: Played 56 games out of 56. Full season, but a shortened one. This is his only healthy season and it's also his best season.

2021-22: Ankle injury. Played only 47 games out of 82 / Missed 35 games.

I'm worried lol.

So you're saying that we've rebuilt him to a faster, bigger, and stronger Chychrun and he should earn the Norris next season?

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

My point was that Chychrun will play to the best of his capabilities if he is not traded. I disagree that Chychrun's value is on a down slope. BA is asking for the moon and he should as Chychrun is our best trading chip.

I get ya, and I'm in agreement. I don't think he'll "dog it" either. My concern is that another season like last just reinforces the objections BA has probably been getting over the high asking price. He's selling potential while other teams are most likely using missed games and last season to knock down the ask. We can't add another season that can be used against us in trade negotiations.

Edit: And that the odds aren't in our favor based on the past indicators

So you're saying that we've rebuilt him to a faster, bigger, and stronger Chychrun and he should earn the Norris next season?

Chychrun is the most muscular piece of glass I've ever seen lol

 

[rt]

I feel like Chychrun is worth roughly two mid-late 1sts and a 2nd. I’ve been saying that for some time.

Maybe that’s too rich? Is a ‘23 OTT 1st, ‘23 OTT 2nd, and Sogaard/Kleven is actually fair value?

I’ve been saying Zaitsev “facilitating” a deal, doesn’t diminish his negative value. Which I had pegged as roughly two 2nds. Maybe it does? Maybe it’s only one 2nd worth of value. Or maybe just Brannstrom?

Zaitsev, Brannstrom, Sogaard, ‘23 1st, ‘23 2nd?

Seems pretty underwhelming. But maybe that’s more realistic than the reported ask that we keep hearing about.

Kuemper got us a 1st, a 3rd and Timmins last summer. I would argue that’s roughly equivalent to Brannstrom, and the OTT ‘23 1st.

So is Chychrun really just one Sogaard more valuable than a 30+ year old goalie with one year left on his deal? I can’t see that. No way.

 

[Fyreman]

Until he plays close to 82 games, I think all bets are off.

 

[Jagged Ice]

Until he plays close to 82 games, I think all bets are off.

I agree. I think moving Chych at the deadline would bring a better return, provided he's healthy and puts up much better numbers, but it's a gamble. He could get injured again or his play is underwhelming like last season and his value drops even more. I just want to move on from him but if I was a GM for another team, I wouldn't risk all those assets, and maybe that's why he's still here.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Those were 2 good teams, that helps the players value when they stay. Chych is fighting an uphill battle in AZ. He is being asked to be the number 1D on D and take the toughest assignments when he is really a 3/4D on D. This weighs on him and effects his own production because he is pinned in his own zone so much and we have no fire power. The year he had 19 goals, he was partnered with Goose as a 3/4 D, easier assignments and Goose could stay home and let Chych go up ice. That and some PP goal production that year.

Its tough to replicate, circumstances have changed and he is always injured too. If BA thinks Chych will be magically motivated to play well, and actually plays well given his assignments and this roster, and doesn't get injured, and then his value goes up, I think that is all highly unlikely. Chych's value is on a down slope, don't see that changing, BA hasn't fooled anybody yet.

Are you trying to make us believe that Chych wants out because at his young age, he knows he's a 3/4 pairing and has not only refused the challenge of a higher pairing, but has also basically given up on his ability to improve?

 

[Jakey53]

Until he plays close to 82 games, I think all bets are off.

Don't forget that Kuemper wasn't a bill of health either. It's hockey and there are injuries.