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Player Discussion Chris Kreider Part II: Manimal

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Everybody goes through good and bad luck, bad bounces, etc.

How has the coach held back his game ?

How have other young guys like Miller, Lindberg, Mci fared this year under this coach ?
 
Bluenote13 said:
Everybody goes through good and bad luck, bad bounces, etc.

How has the coach held back his game ?

How have other young guys like Miller, Lindberg, Mci fared this year under this coach ?
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great year - healthy scratch - healthy scratch when healthy.

i wasnt talking about him in particular with this statement:
"but quite a few players are having down years. i think part of it is the coach, part of it is the player, and part of it is just sheer luck."

i was saying that there are a lot of players struggling...they are all struggling for various reasons.

Nash to me is more luck. Girardi to me is more coach. Kreider, to me is more player.

im not disagreering with you with regards to kreider...i just think different people are struggling for different reasons.
 
I don't need much more from Kreiderto be happy...but there is absolutely no reason why he can't become more of a physical force on his shifts....that alone could help us soooooooooooooooo much....it is not funny . If he played to his weigh....just think about the possibilities for us . It is a contract year...and he fizzled....about says it all.....even if the offense fizzled....he still could have played a more physical role . What Miller did to Chara....Kreider would never do . It is not in him and it can't be taught . So...unless his offensive skills improve 100 %....I think we should move on him if the return is fruitful .
 
Kreider reminds me of Kovalev in his first few years. All the physical tools just couldn't put it together consistently. Then he gets traded to Pittsburgh and he takes off. I'm wondering if Kreider may never get it together here.
 
our record is unbelievable when kreider gets a point. postgame just put up a graphic where we are like 47-9-and something in the last however many games when kreider gets on the scoresheet.
 
ecemleafs said:
our record is unbelievable when kreider gets a point. postgame just put up a graphic where we are like 47-9-and something in the last however many games when kreider gets on the scoresheet.
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Just imagine if he turns into a PPG player.
 
For comparisons sake. We are 45-33-7 over the last 2 seasons when CK doesn't record a point. 21-15-2 this year and 24-18-5 last season
 
Lets first see if he can play for 2 or 3 games in a row before talking about him as a ppg player
 
Last game, Nash on that EN goal, I thought it was Kreider. Today, that tip and breakaway I seriously thought "Nash again?!" but this time it actually was Kreider haha
 
Chris Kreider now has 4 games with 3 points in his career, and all 4 are a different set of points:

11/02/2013 v CAR (3A)
11/30/2013 v VAN (3G)
01/21/2014 v NYI (1G, 2A)
03/27/2016 @ MTL (2G, 1A)
 
At the very least, Kreider is an inconsistent 20 goal, 40-45 point player. While frustrating, it's not as if he's completely useless and popping in single digit goals/points.

Kreider, for better or worse, is in a similar situation to Nash. Even though there's production, he has two big strikes that are usually called against him --- consistency and expectations.

Like Nash, he tends to score in bunches, with long stretches of goose eggs. The end result is stats that look good on the surface, but lose some of their shine upon closer examination.

The million dollar debate at this point is upside and value.

With regards to upside, there's the question as to whether Kreider is what he is, or if he is capable of 25 or even 30 goals.

There's also the question of whether people can live with him if he's "only" a 20 goal, 45 point player.

As far as the second question is concerned, we can debate how other teams may view him. If there is a general consensus that Kreider is a 20 goal, 40-45 point guy, the returns aren't going to be as high as some people may want to believe. You're most likely going to get a similar player, with similar strengths and weaknesses.

If you're going to move him, the biggest hope you can have is that there's someone out there who believes in Kreider's upside and is willing to pay a little more. But even then, I'm not sure the return is as great as some may think.

Even if Kreider is the player he's going to be, I have some concerns that we're approaching this with the mindset that the grass is greener on the other side. I'm not totally sure that's the case.
 
The biggest issue I see in Kreider is he doesn't seem to be a self-motivator, and when he's not motivated, he disappears. The kid has a history of showing up in bigger games like the WJC, Bean Pot, NCAA championships, and the NHL playoffs. The rest of the time he's just so damn up and down. He's like those little toy cars that you used to have to pull backwards a bunch of times to wind them up. I feel like the team needs a way to crank him up before every game or what we see is what we're gonna get.
 
Trxjw said:
The biggest issue I see in Kreider is he doesn't seem to be a self-motivator, and when he's not motivated, he disappears. The kid has a history of showing up in bigger games like the WJC, Bean Pot, NCAA championships, and the NHL playoffs. The rest of the time he's just so damn up and down. He's like those little toy cars that you used to have to pull backwards a bunch of times to wind them up. I feel like the team needs a way to crank him up before every game or what we see is what we're gonna get.
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And frankly, some guys are just like that. It's why some guys are worth more to a playoff bound team than they are to a non-playoff team.

That very well might be Kreider's MO - a guy who gives you decent production in the regular season --- albeit in a frustrating manner, but whom teams like to have come playoff time.

Heck that was the epitome of a lot of the Ranger deals of 93 and 94. Matteau was a prime example of that type of player and was about the same age Kreider is now when we acquired him.
 
Edge said:
Even if Kreider is the player he's going to be, I have some concerns that we're approaching this with the mindset that the grass is greener on the other side. I'm not totally sure that's the case.
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I tend to agree with this. Though will also add, that in my view it is still too early to simply write him off (I know that you are not doing it) as nothing more than a 20 goal, 45 point player. He is still young and will continue to develop. And can find the consistency. That is the only thing that is preventing the leap to a 25-30 goal scorer. But it is a leap that he can make. Too early to trade him away because you feel that in his 3rd year in the league he is no longer progressing.
 
True Blue said:
I tend to agree with this. Though will also add, that in my view it is still too early to simply write him off (I know that you are not doing it) as nothing more than a 20 goal, 45 point player. He is still young and will continue to develop. And can find the consistency. That is the only thing that is preventing the leap to a 25-30 goal scorer. But it is a leap that he can make. Too early to trade him away because you feel that in his 3rd year in the league he is no longer progressing.
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Chalk me up as being in the camp that thinks he 25-30 goals isn't a reach (though I know a lot of people feel otherwise).

When I see Kreider, I see a player who should be scoring in the same range as what Ladd and Landeskog typically do.

I really don't expect a superstar-level performance, but I think he could be a higher-end support player.
 
Edge said:
Chalk me up as being in the camp that thinks he 25-30 goals isn't a reach (though I know a lot of people feel otherwise).

When I see Kreider, I see a player who should be scoring in the same range as what Ladd and Landeskog typically do.

I really don't expect a superstar-level performance, but I think he could be a higher-end support player.
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Completely agree
 
Edge said:
Chalk me up as being in the camp that thinks he 25-30 goals isn't a reach (though I know a lot of people feel otherwise).

When I see Kreider, I see a player who should be scoring in the same range as what Ladd and Landeskog typically do.

I really don't expect a superstar-level performance, but I think he could be a higher-end support player.
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I agree with you, but you can make an argument that Kreider's first three full seasons in the NHL have been better than Ladd's first three or four seasons.

My issue with Kreids is if the team starts paying for potential rather than what his actual production is. That and it's possible all that talk about being a dirty player/goalie killer/whatever has neutered his physical game a bit. I hate the cliche of keep things simple and hit everything in sight but I think it really applies to him.
 
TheLowKreider said:
I agree with you, but you can make an argument that Kreider's first three full seasons in the NHL have been better than Ladd's first three or four seasons.

My issue with Kreids is if the team starts paying for potential rather than what his actual production is. That and it's possible all that talk about being a dirty player/goalie killer/whatever has neutered his physical game a bit. I hate the cliche of keep things simple and hit everything in sight but I think it really applies to him.
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I can't disagree with any of those points.
 
Edge said:
Chalk me up as being in the camp that thinks he 25-30 goals isn't a reach (though I know a lot of people feel otherwise).

When I see Kreider, I see a player who should be scoring in the same range as what Ladd and Landeskog typically do.

I really don't expect a superstar-level performance, but I think he could be a higher-end support player.
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Frustrating thing is that despite playing like he had no clue what he was doing for 75% of the season he could easy match or set a new career high in goals (has 20 now, previous high was 21)

I don't think it's a stretch at all to think he could score 30 if he could figure out how to have a consistent season. I do think he has done a much better job scoring around the front of the net instead of using his shot from further out. He has an extremely hard and quick shot but he can't aim it for **** it seems like. He's always trying to blow it by goalies but doesn't have the placement he needs to do that. He has much more success driving to the net.

You just hate to trade him or something and then see him figure it out on another team

e: I absolutely think that some of the calls against him have affected his physical game. He doesn't play nearly as physically and engaged as he did for that brief period of time when he was hitting hard and charging the net and scoring goals. Then he gets some suspect match penalties and goes back to floating

e2: I always feel a little weird talking about players like this...I think Kreider tries hard and it's not like he's slacking or "floating" on purpose but it's finding a kind of comfort level and place on the ice so he knows what he needs to do and when to do it and things start working out when that happens. When a player is a bit out of sync then it's noticeable but doesn't reflect an effort level necessarily. I think Kreider has struggled to find a way to be "in sync" for a full season.
 
nyr2k2 said:
With some consistency, he's a 30+ goal guy easy. He has the skills to be a star.
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Yea this, I mean how many breakaways has he had this season with no finish... If the power play was good for the entire season with him in front, and he cashes in on half his breakaways or even a third he's at 30 right now.

He's got 7 points in his last 5, def picked a good time to start heating up.
 
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