Chloe Primarano becomes the first female to be selected in the WHL Bantam Draft

[RedHawkDown]

Taking a female powerlifter and saying she could be strong enough to play in the NHL is a little disingenuous.

She would instantly be a terrible hockey player

I didn’t say that. I said the existence of women that strong means that the argument that women cannot biologically be strong or fast enough to be an NHL player is straight up false.

If some genetic freak of a girl dedicated her life to strength training and hockey she could make it. Will it happen? Almost certainly not. Could it happen? The existence of female athletes that are faster and stronger than current NHL players quite literally proves that it could, however small that chance.

I've plYed with and against women, and with and against boys who went on to p


And really the question we should be asking people like you is : why do we even need to see it? Why do women even need to try against men when they have e their own leagues now?


And I absolutely would wager my house that there will never be a legit NHL woman player. I would go further: there will never be a legitimate woman in men's NCAA D3 hockey.

I didn’t say we need to see it. But Id ask you why you’re so against it? If she’s good enough, let her play. If she’s not, she’ll flame out and go back to women’s hockey. Why does it get you so agitated to let her try?

 

[Silky Johnson]

Really weird question. I don't know anything about the subject of general Russian intelligence so I'm not going to say anything and look like an ass.



Worst post you've ever seen? Did you literally just join before posting this?

Yeah no. It's not relevant especially for this forum which is extremely male dominated and is not an accurate representation of the hockey community. Even if gender were relevant a group made up almost entirely of men who are uneducated in the subject talking about gender in hockey makes as much sense as those same men talking about pregnancy.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and is allowed to speak it as long as they stay to the TOS agreement yeah that's pretty obvious. The more advanced a subject though the less the opinion of your average person matters. Anything biological/medical I'm not going to an average person for their opinion. I'll listen and then I'll go find someone who is actually educated in the subject to know the truth. Y'all are welcome to continue talking about an irrelevant subject in a thread, everyone else is also entitled to their opinions about the discussion featuring people who have not proven to have studied in the field and have any sort of higher education related to it. The dangerous sentiment is believing the average person's opinion is just as valid as someone who actually does work in the field and when making an argument of authority yeah it kind of matters in this instance considering the amount work you have to go through to thoroughly understand these type of topics. That or you're really overestimating the education you get in high school.

This should be relatively easy to find out the answer though right? Just find a large sample size of girl and boy hockey players who all receive the same amount of funding, development, opportunities, same social challenges, and we'll know if it's possible or why it's not. You control for all those factors and there will be no more doubts.

I stand corrected, only in that you decided to write a worse post.

There are two parts to the argument here. The biological and the social.

The biological is accepted science and really not up for much debate. The academic findings are backed up by imperical & anecdotal evidence. It's a objective fact.

The second part is social and certainly more subjective. Values and opinions matter in this area.

My and other people opinion is that not separating the sports by gender does a disservice to women. I would prefer strong independent women's sports leagues where women that can be celebrated in there own right rather then being fringe within male leagues.

The obvious market for that to happen with is female fans. Happy for limited supports from governments and existing sports leagues for that to happen but not sure it ever really will. Not a huge fan of social engineering so that is OK.

I hold the above opinions provisionally until a better argument is present. Same goes for the science but it is much more settled and unlikely to change.

You don't actually know anyone's gender on here and it shouldn't matter. In fact using the source of an argument against said argument is a logical fallacy.

If you disagree with the consensus science or think what is being said is not consensus, show alternatives.

If you disagree with people opinions, present better ones.

 

[Stealth1616]

I didn’t say that. I said the existence of women that strong means that the argument that women cannot biologically be strong or fast enough to be an NHL player is straight up false.

If some genetic freak of a girl dedicated her life to strength training and hockey she could make it. Will it happen? Almost certainly not. Could it happen? The existence of female athletes that are faster and stronger than current NHL players quite literally proves that it could, however small that chance.

I didn’t say we need to see it. But Id ask you why you’re so against it? If she’s good enough, let her play. If she’s not, she’ll flame out and go back to women’s hockey. Why does it get you so agitated to let her try?

This is basically like saying just because someone hasn’t seen a unicorn doesn’t mean they aren’t real

 

[WarriorofTime]

Opened this thread expecting an update on her current situation. See page upon page of male vs female sports discussion. Couldn't that be done in a dedicated thread?

The thread is literally about a girl getting drafted into a boys league. It's the title of the OP. Not sure what exactly you were expecting other than a discussion on that very topic. I'm not entirely sure where the women's hockey subforum is on this site, or if there is one.

 

[RedHawkDown]

This is basically like saying just because someone hasn’t seen a unicorn doesn’t mean they aren’t real

No. It isn’t.

There are currently no Indian star players in the NHL. No one has seen one. Indians also play the sport a lot less than white kids and so the likelihood of one showing up is quite low. Are you going to also say it is impossible to happen because it’s never happened before, and apply your ludicrous unicorn analogy?

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Or I just know the game well enough.

I have heard people insinuate a woman could also make it to the NFL. I am truly sorry to inform you but, like the NHL, there will never be a (legitimate - not a sideshow like Rheaume was to sell tickets) female in NHL or NFL. And I would wager my house on there.

Most NFL players are basically physical superhumans. They aren't even on the same planet as most of us.

When I was in graduate school, I taught a class in the physical sciences, and since it was a night class I had a bunch of athletes in the class since the class time was very compatible with football practice schedules. One of my students went on to be a 1st round pick, Super Bowl champion and have a 10-year(?) or so career in the NFL. When I shook his hand after he completed the class...I can't even begin to describe that experience. My hand literally disappeared inside his. He was crushing my hand like a vice and he absolutely was not intending to because he was a polite, respectful and terrific guy...if he wanted to he could literally have broken every single bone in my hand without remotely breaking a sweat. I was far closer to my 10-year old cousin physically than I was to him. It was like teaching the world's nicest T-800. He was a great guy though, and I'm so, so happy that he made it.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I didn’t say that. I said the existence of women that strong means that the argument that women cannot biologically be strong or fast enough to be an NHL player is straight up false.

If some genetic freak of a girl dedicated her life to strength training and hockey she could make it. Will it happen? Almost certainly not. Could it happen? The existence of female athletes that are faster and stronger than current NHL players quite literally proves that it could, however small that chance.

The existence of a female powerlifter means a woman can play in the NHL? Huh. So if they dedicate their lives to powerlifting, where does the hockey stuff come into play?

Maybe, but it's probably 1 in a billion. People watching too many modern Hollywood movies and have a warped position on these things lately. It's not particularly realistic. The WHL though, maybe she could have a shot depending on development as that's a kid league.

Recently, a girl became the first female non-Kicker to play NCAA Football when she made a Division 3 roster and played snaps at Safety. And while that's only DIII, I think football is an even tougher sport for a girl to be able to play with boys than hockey as football is a lot more physical and requires a level of pure size, strength and athleticism than a skill game like hockey that has elements of physicality. So I think a girl could probably play in the WHL. There are kids that weigh like 140 pounds in the WHL.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Worst post you've ever seen? Did you literally just join before posting this?

Yeah no. It's not relevant especially for this forum which is extremely male dominated and is not an accurate representation of the hockey community. Even if gender were relevant a group made up almost entirely of men who are uneducated in the subject talking about gender in hockey makes as much sense as those same men talking about pregnancy.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and is allowed to speak it as long as they stay to the TOS agreement yeah that's pretty obvious. The more advanced a subject though the less the opinion of your average person matters. Anything biological/medical I'm not going to an average person for their opinion. I'll listen and then I'll go find someone who is actually educated in the subject to know the truth. Y'all are welcome to continue talking about an irrelevant subject in a thread, everyone else is also entitled to their opinions about the discussion featuring people who have not proven to have studied in the field and have any sort of higher education related to it. The dangerous sentiment is believing the average person's opinion is just as valid as someone who actually does work in the field and when making an argument of authority yeah it kind of matters in this instance considering the amount work you have to go through to thoroughly understand these type of topics. That or you're really overestimating the education you get in high school.

This should be relatively easy to find out the answer though right? Just find a large sample size of girl and boy hockey players who all receive the same amount of funding, development, opportunities, same social challenges, and we'll know if it's possible or why it's not. You control for all those factors and there will be no more doubts.

You don't think HF is an accurate representation of the hockey community? This is the first time I've heard that. I would say the opposite is true, warts and all.

 

[Northerner]

Most NFL players are basically physical superhumans. They aren't even on the same planet as most of us.

When I was in graduate school, I taught a class in the physical sciences, and since it was a night class I had a bunch of athletes in the class since the class time was very compatible with football practice schedules. One of my students went on to be a 1st round pick, Super Bowl champion and have a 10-year(?) or so career in the NFL. When I shook his hand after he completed the class...I can't even begin to describe that experience. My hand literally disappeared inside his. He was crushing my hand like a vice and he absolutely was not intending to because he was a polite, respectful and terrific guy...if he wanted to he could literally have broken every single bone in my hand without remotely breaking a sweat. I was far closer to my 10-year old cousin physically than I was to him. It was like teaching the world's nicest T-800. He was a great guy though, and I'm so, so happy that he made it.

Nhlers are superhumans too. And the average NHL player is literally 100 times more athletic than your average NFL o-lineman. Have you ever seen an obese NHL player? Now...how many obese NFL O-LIneman have you seen?

I didn’t say that. I said the existence of women that strong means that the argument that women cannot biologically be strong or fast enough to be an NHL player is straight up false.

If some genetic freak of a girl dedicated her life to strength training and hockey she could make it. Will it happen? Almost certainly not. Could it happen? The existence of female athletes that are faster and stronger than current NHL players quite literally proves that it could, however small that chance.

I didn’t say we need to see it. But Id ask you why you’re so against it? If she’s good enough, let her play. If she’s not, she’ll flame out and go back to women’s hockey. Why does it get you so agitated to let her try?

I think it's just stupid. It doesn't help women (in any way) to get their asses smoked by teenagers.

Honestly it's just another symptom of larger problems in Western civilization, and I'll just leave it at that.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Nhlers are superhumans too.

No they aren’t. NHL players aren’t that big on average.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Nhlers are superhumans too. And the average NHL player is literally 100 times more athletic than your average NFL o-lineman. Have you ever seen an obese NHL player? Now...how many obese NFL O-LIneman have you seen?

I never said anything about NHL'ers not being superhuman athletes, I was sharing a personal anecdote about a man I once knew and the only NHL player I ever spent time with is Douglas Murray, who was built much more like a fullback than a hockey player.

Obesity doesn't exclude hyper-athleticism in the case of NFL players. Larry Allen could bench press more than 700 pounds and also run as fast as a linebacker when he had to, for example. The thought of Larry Allen chasing me down at full speed makes me want to shit my pants.

 

[Northerner]

No they aren’t. NHL players aren’t that big on average.

Their athleticism makes them superhumans from my perspective.

I never said anything about NHL'ers not being superhuman athletes, I was sharing a personal anecdote about a man I once knew and the only NHL player I ever spent time with is Douglas Murray, who was built much more like a fullback than a hockey player.

Obesity doesn't exclude hyper-athleticism in the case of NFL players. Larry Allen could bench press more than 700 pounds and also run as fast as a linebacker when he had to, for example. The thought of Larry Allen chasing me down at full speed makes me want to shit my pants.

I don't view o-lineman as great athletes. Never have, never will.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Their athleticism makes them superhumans from my perspective.

Totally legitimate opinion.

I don't view o-lineman as great athletes. Never have, never will.

You're simply wrong here, no offense. You have no idea how quick and fast these guys are when they need to be.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I don't view o-lineman as great athletes. Never have, never will.

That’s just your own ignorance.

 

[Northerner]

That’s just your own ignorance.

They're good athletes. But there is not one who is as talented as Conor Bedard or Patrick Kane.

There is a reason that when NFL pundits talk about "skill players" they aren't referring to o-lineman.

 

[WarriorofTime]

They're good athletes. But there is not one who is as talented as Conor Bedard or Patrick Kane.

There is a reason that when NFL pundits talk about "skill players" they aren't referring to o-lineman.

They play completely different sports and are tasked with completely different responsibilities so I don't really see the comparison. I wouldn't want Jason Kelce centering a top line on a Stanley Cup contending team and I wouldn't want Connor Bedard centering an offensive line on a Super Bowl contending team.

 

[LeafChief]

Chloe is putting up some serious numbers in the CSSHL U18 women's league this year.

13 games - 23 goals + 26 assists for 49 points. Currently only 16 years old. We will potentially see her represent Team Canada at the U18s this year. Would be very cool to see if she can get in some WHL games in her 17, 18 or 19 year old season. Wishing the best for her.

Time to break some barriers.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Most NFL players are basically physical superhumans. They aren't even on the same planet as most of us.

When I was in graduate school, I taught a class in the physical sciences, and since it was a night class I had a bunch of athletes in the class since the class time was very compatible with football practice schedules. One of my students went on to be a 1st round pick, Super Bowl champion and have a 10-year(?) or so career in the NFL. When I shook his hand after he completed the class...I can't even begin to describe that experience. My hand literally disappeared inside his. He was crushing my hand like a vice and he absolutely was not intending to because he was a polite, respectful and terrific guy...if he wanted to he could literally have broken every single bone in my hand without remotely breaking a sweat. I was far closer to my 10-year old cousin physically than I was to him. It was like teaching the world's nicest T-800. He was a great guy though, and I'm so, so happy that he made it.

I recently saw one of those “see how big your hand is compared to this athlete’s imprint” things at an arena in Dallas. It was Luka Doncic’s hand. Now, Luka is 6’7” which is obviously huge compared to normal people, but it’s not like he’s Shaq or Yao Ming or something. He’s about average height in the NBA.

I was stunned at how tiny my hands were compared to his. It was ludicrous, they were literally more than twice the size of mine. The ends of my fingers barely came up to the beginning of his. I felt like a toddler putting his hand in his dad’s gloves. Really hit home that in certain sports (basketball and football especially) the players are so physically different from normal people they may as well be aliens. I’ve met a lot of hockey players and with rare exceptions like Chara and Gerbe (thighs) they have never struck me that way. They’re normally built men on the taller/muscular side. The difference between an NHL player and a regular Joe is in core strength and fine motor skills, not in his having hands the size of dinner plates or something.

 

[Northerner]

They play completely different sports and are tasked with completely different responsibilities so I don't really see the comparison. I wouldn't want Jason Kelce centering a top line on a Stanley Cup contending team and I wouldn't want Connor Bedard centering an offensive line on a Super Bowl contending team.

Fine. But an NFL pundit will never refer to an o-lineman as a "skill player".

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I recently saw one of those “see how big your hand is compared to this athlete’s imprint” things at an arena in Dallas. It was Luka Doncic’s hand. Now, Luka is 6’7” which is obviously huge compared to normal people, but it’s not like he’s Shaq or Yao Ming or something. He’s about average height in the NBA.

I was stunned at how tiny my hands were compared to his. It was ludicrous, they were literally more than twice the size of mine. The ends of my fingers barely came up to the beginning of his. I felt like a toddler putting his hand in his dad’s gloves. Really hit home that in certain sports (basketball and football especially) the players are so physically different from normal people they may as well be aliens. I’ve met a lot of hockey players and with rare exceptions like Chara and Gerbe (thighs) they have never struck me that way. They’re normally built men on the taller/muscular side. The difference between an NHL player and a regular Joe is in core strength and fine motor skills, not in his having hands the size of dinner plates or something.

Agree with every word.

I love your mention of Gerbe. The amount of times that guy must have been told that he'd never play in the NHL...and he didn't listen. I admire that. He never met a leg day he didn't love and it showed because that little mother f***er was a pain in the ass.

 

[wetcoast]

Their athleticism makes them superhumans from my perspective.

I don't view o-lineman as great athletes. Never have, never will.

You are probably the typical football fan who doesn't understand how important the O line is to any successful offense.

 

[Northerner]

You are probably the typical football fan who doesn't understand how important the O line is to any successful offense.

I know they're incredibly important. Particularly Left tackle.

But that doesn't mean their actions (pushing and pulling) aren't terribly athletic acts. I mean has I been blessed with 6'6" 330lb frame I might have made it to the NFL.

Now I am 6' tall, but Jarred Spurgeon I could never dream of ever being as good as in a thousand lifetimes.

That is the difference between brute strength (o line) and flat out athleticism (an NHLer who is 5'10" but spends 10 yrs in NHL)

 

[WarriorofTime]

But that doesn't mean their actions (pushing and pulling) aren't terribly athletic acts. I mean has I been blessed with 6'6" 330lb frame I might have made it to the NFL.

You would almost certainly not. This is about as ignorant as an NFL fan saying "had I been born in a place with a ton of ice rinks and skating my whole life, I might have made it to the NHL".

P.S. nobody is "born" with a 330 pound frame. They get that way by eating a lot and lifting a ton to be strong enough to play in the NFL.

 

[Northerner]

You would almost certainly not. This is about as ignorant as an NFL fan saying "had I been born in a place with a ton of ice rinks and skating my whole life, I might have made it to the NHL".

P.S. nobody is "born" with a 330 pound frame. They get that way by eating a lot and lifting a ton to be strong enough to play in the NFL.

The average height of men in America last time I checked was 5'11" lol

So I'm sorry to inform you but the genetic lottery is the generic lottery.

Also circling back round to this thread, bone density varies radically from NFL o lineman to the clerk who works with Geek Squad

You would almost certainly not. This is about as ignorant as an NFL fan saying "had I been born in a place with a ton of ice rinks and skating my whole life, I might have made it to the NHL".

P.S. nobody is "born" with a 330 pound frame. They get that way by eating a lot and lifting a ton to be strong enough to play in the NFL.

Let's be honest, NFL o lineman (and d) are the only "elite/pro athletes" on earth who are obese (and I ain't including sumos lol)

 

[nowhereman]

Worst post you've ever seen? Did you literally just join before posting this?

Yeah no. It's not relevant especially for this forum which is extremely male dominated and is not an accurate representation of the hockey community. Even if gender were relevant a group made up almost entirely of men who are uneducated in the subject talking about gender in hockey makes as much sense as those same men talking about pregnancy.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and is allowed to speak it as long as they stay to the TOS agreement yeah that's pretty obvious. The more advanced a subject though the less the opinion of your average person matters. Anything biological/medical I'm not going to an average person for their opinion. I'll listen and then I'll go find someone who is actually educated in the subject to know the truth. Y'all are welcome to continue talking about an irrelevant subject in a thread, everyone else is also entitled to their opinions about the discussion featuring people who have not proven to have studied in the field and have any sort of higher education related to it. The dangerous sentiment is believing the average person's opinion is just as valid as someone who actually does work in the field and when making an argument of authority yeah it kind of matters in this instance considering the amount work you have to go through to thoroughly understand these type of topics. That or you're really overestimating the education you get in high school.

This should be relatively easy to find out the answer though right? Just find a large sample size of girl and boy hockey players who all receive the same amount of funding, development, opportunities, same social challenges, and we'll know if it's possible or why it's not. You control for all those factors and there will be no more doubts.

But who are these experts whose authority you feel you need to appeal to? Because science agrees with the majority and the majority agrees with science.

And the idea that HFBoards doesn't represent the hockey community is pure absurdity.