CHL can now play NCAA - change everything !

[WarriorofTime]

One thing a lot of people appear pretty clueless about is that not all CHL places are created equally.

There is a big difference between "London holds your rights and wants you to play there" versus say... the Niagara IceDogs.

I would expect players will still leverage Tenders but to try and get to their preferred destination rather than viewing every CHL team as the exact same as posters tend to do.

 

[Golden_Jet]

One thing a lot of people appear pretty clueless about is that not all CHL places are created equally.

There is a big difference between "London holds your rights and wants you to play there" versus say... the Niagara IceDogs.

I would expect players will still leverage Tenders but to try and get to their preferred destination rather than viewing every CHL team as the exact same as posters tend to do.

Sure, but there will be more US players vying for spots in the CHL, now that they can come back to the NCAA without penalty.

 

[Corso]

Sure, but there will be more US players vying for spots in the CHL, now that they can come back to the NCAA without penalty.

Exactly but remember, all OHL teams have minimum league standards to abide by, and all of those I mentioned in my previous post. Those are things that to the best of my knowledge, no USHL franchise offer.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Sure, but there will be more US players vying for spots in the CHL, now that they can come back to the NCAA without penalty.

Yeah it'll probably look more similar to about 10 years ago when about half the USNTDP would go to the CHL after their NTDP eligibility ended.

I think with the non-NTDP kids, I think another thing being overlooked is the big delineation of 16/17 year olds and 18/19/20 year olds. A lot of non-NTDP kids in Minnesota and East Coast and Shattucks (recruits everywhere) will want to graduate with their high school class and play MN HS/Prep Hockey, and continue to supplement it with USHL, which probably isn't possible with a CHL team. Then they jump to Juniors fulltime until they are ready for College Hockey whenever that ends up. A guy jumping to the BCHL when they are 20 year old adult doesn't necessarily suggest a whole slew of Massachusetts kids will be packing their bags to move to small Quebec towns at 16.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You are asking why many Americans will choose the CHL now over the USHL? Well I believe I answered that in my post. I believe I gave you some solid reasons as to why a lot of elite American talent will elect to play in the NCAA. You can tray and refute them if you would like.

Why wouldn't a Mass kid go to Halifax, Moncton, Cape Brenton or even Rimouski over Muskegon or Youngstown or DesMoins? American players have played in the Q. If dozens upon dozens are willing to travel across a continent to play in the BCHL, why not to a team just an 8 hour car drive away????

Funny that you think Im so biased for the CHL that on the OHL board I'm being questioned as to why I'm so crazy to believe that some high end OHL talent will choose the NCAA and not remain in the league until their 20 year old season.

I've talked to a lot of people and they were pretty adamant when they stated that the CHL doesn't have any plans at a merger, affiliation or association with the USHL. If you believe otherwise, so be it. I know you have a very great sense of importance about yourself, but honestly, no one hear really cares all that much. You can take what I posted and simply ignore it, especially if you think I'm some blowhard.

Time will prove who is right.....I wonder why though, Blake Montgomery, a Wisconsin commit and a point per game first line player for Lincoln just jumped ship to the OHL today? I suspect that he will not be the only one, even though, USHL teams (in a state of panic) are asking for the maximum in transfer fees for any player leaving for the CHL. That may help to staunch a bit of the bleeding this year but not so much for next year (where what you can ask for in transfer fees is based on a set firm amount after the ice is removed).

I posed a few questions to you that weren't answered. I can restate them if you want:

1. How is the needle moved when the USHL is still the league that offers players the chance to play in the NCAA at any age they want (mostly relating to NA players)?

2. How is the needle moved when the USHL is still the league that allows players to play AHL prior to the age of 20 (mostly relating to European imports)?

3. If you're drafted into the Q territory (so leaving the OHL/WHL angle to the side), why would you voluntarily choose to jump to a currently worse hockey league where there are obvious cultural barriers that otherwise wouldn't exist?

4. How would it logistically work for a team to leave one junior hockey league and join a rival one?

The CHL already is widely viewed as a better branch of leagues (league to league varies, but probably on the whole it's true). But there are players who play in the USHL currently for other reasons. Unless the CHL can address all of that (it doesn't seem clear to me they are about to, which is the crux of this discussion), I don't see how things change more than marginally. It doesn't address the reason why players like Owen Power, Adam Fantilli, Macklin Celebrini chose the league, let alone the NTDP players and the non-NTDP American players that have been choosing the USHL in large numbers.

 

[Golden_Jet]

It doesn't address the reason why players like Owen Power, Adam Fantilli, Macklin Celebrini chose the league,

Because if they went to the CHL, they would’ve been penalized coming back to NCAA, now they won’t.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Because if they went to the CHL, they would’ve been penalized coming back to NCAA, now they won’t. Not that hard to figure out.

Maybe the mistake is on my part, but your post makes no sense. They wouldn't have been penalized coming back to the NCAA? I don't know what that means.

The current new deal doesn't seem to allow for CHL players to play in the NCAA in their draft year. I don't see what has changed in relation to this point if that isn't addressed.

 

[landy92mack29]

there's already a pretty clear exidus of USHL players to the CHL which will only ramp up as things become more clear

 

[WarriorofTime]

there's already a pretty clear exidus of USHL players to the CHL which will only ramp up as things become more clear

So far it’s been one kid that went to London (best junior hockey org in the world) and a couple kids that couldn’t get ice time on their current team. Mid-season exoduses tend to be pretty rare. Effects will probably be seen more in offseason.

 

[Kingpin794]

So far it’s been one kid that went to London (best junior hockey org in the world) and a couple kids that couldn’t get ice time on their current team. Mid-season exoduses tend to be pretty rare. Effects will probably be seen more in offseason.

Tynan Lawerance is off to Chicoutimi apparently. Wasn't there another one that went to St. John? It's not just 3rd/4th liners. And we're just starting, Agree that moving mid season if tougher but this summer should be very busy.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Maybe the mistake is on my part, but your post makes no sense. They wouldn't have been penalized coming back to the NCAA? I don't know what that means

Said would’ve been penalized in the past, not wouldn’t,

The current new deal doesn't seem to allow for CHL players to play in the NCAA in their draft year. I don't see what has changed in relation to this point if that isn't addressed.

You were discussing Celebrini, Fantilli and Power, as can be seen in what I quoted.

The above could come back before being drafted. Play 16,17 in CHL and commit for the fall in NCAA at 18, as far as I know.

 

[Blue and Green]

The current new deal doesn't seem to allow for CHL players to play in the NCAA in their draft year. I don't see what has changed in relation to this point if that isn't addressed.

The NCAA is allowing any CHL player to move to the NCAA as long as he is academically eligible, regardless of age. The expectation is that the CHL will release players during the offseason if they request to move to the NCAA. Thus, guys like Power, Fantilli, etc., who went to the USHL so that they would remain eligible for the NCAA, could play instead in the CHL prior to moving to the NCAA.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Tynan Lawerance is off to Chicoutimi apparently. Wasn't there another one that went to St. John? It's not just 3rd/4th liners. And we're just starting, Agree that moving mid season if tougher but this summer should be very busy.

Yeah it’s basically the ncaa transfer portal at the junior level. Other side of that of course is if CHL team are bringing in top USHL and BCHL ringers so to speak a lot of 18 year olds, especially if not drafted in first go around, will likely be a bit more insecure about their lineup spot at a time they need high exposure and may jump to the ushl team that lost its best player. That’s how transfer portal in ncaa often works out.

 

[Kingpin794]

Yeah it’s basically the ncaa transfer portal at the junior level. Other side of that of course is if CHL team are bringing in top USHL and BCHL ringers so to speak a lot of 18 year olds, especially if not drafted in first go around, will likely be a bit more insecure about their lineup spot at a time they need high exposure and may jump to the ushl team that lost its best player. That’s how transfer portal in ncaa often works out.

Yep. could be a talent swap.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The NCAA is allowing any CHL player to move to the NCAA as long as he is academically eligible, regardless of age. The expectation is that the CHL will release players during the offseason if they request to move to the NCAA. Thus, guys like Power, Fantilli, etc., who went to the USHL so that they would remain eligible for the NCAA, could play instead in the CHL prior to moving to the NCAA.

So here is where it gets interesting. If this leads to a massive number of third and fourth round picks signing with ncaa teams when they are 18, this puts lot of a strain on CHL teams and they start to resemble more closely the current ushl in terms of composition. This makes it tough for first and second round picks that don’t stay in the nhl to be playing junior hockey especially if other guys are going against the same player pool, just older and more developed. In turn, nhl teams will probably want to put these guys in the AHL so they don’t get stagnant. And in turn, more super kids like Celebrini may want to rush their way into the ncaa during their draft year so they’re more likely to be ready to jump directly into the nhl.

The NHL-CHL transfer agreement is an impotent piece in this. The AHL thing as well as the other side of how long they will have players on the reserve list to sign players if they are drafted from the CHL but then play NCAA hockey.

 

[Corso]

I posed a few questions to you that weren't answered. I can restate them if you want:

1. How is the needle moved when the USHL is still the league that offers players the chance to play in the NCAA at any age they want (mostly relating to NA players)?

The OHL and to my understanding the other two leagues encompassing the CHL, will allow players an opt out clause, with the understanding that they will forfeit the scholarship component if they do leave before their 20 year old season. A moot point really for those entering the NCAA. So no advantage to the USHL in any way.2. How is the needle moved when the USHL is still the league that allows players to play AHL prior to the age of 20 (mostly relating to European imports)?

2. How is the needle moved when the USHL is still the league that allows players to play AHL prior to the age of 20 (mostly relating to European imports)?

3. If you're drafted into the Q territory (so leaving the OHL/WHL angle to the side), why would you voluntarily choose to jump to a currently worse hockey league where there are obvious cultural barriers that otherwise wouldn't exist?

The NHL CHL transfer agreement is in the process of being changed. You will see U-20 CHL players allowed to play some games in the AHL.

That the Q is a worse league than the U is debatable. But fine, I will grant you that more players are drafted out of the U. How many of those players remain for their 18 and 19 year old seasons? Currently, both the Q and the U have the same number of elite drafted high end talent playing. Q franchises offer paid schooling while playing. That in itself will be a solid draw. No USHL franchise matches what teams like Halifax, Quebec and Moncton offer. There are no cultural barriers playing in the east coast of Canada if you are from Mass.

The CHL already is widely viewed as a better branch of leagues (league to league varies, but probably on the whole it's true). But there are players who play in the USHL currently for other reasons. Unless the CHL can address all of that (it doesn't seem clear to me they are about to, which is the crux of this discussion), I don't see how things change more than marginally. It doesn't address the reason why players like Owen Power, Adam Fantilli, Macklin Celebrini chose the league, let alone the NTDP players and the non-NTDP American players that have been choosing the USHL in large numbers.

Owen Power, Fantili and Celebrini chose the USHL so they could play college hockey. They now can play college hockey by going to the OHL or WHL respectively. They no longer have to go the USHL

 

[Blue and Green]

So here is where it gets interesting. If this leads to a massive number of third and fourth round picks signing with ncaa teams when they are 18, this puts lot of a strain on CHL teams and they start to resemble more closely the current ushl in terms of composition. This makes it tough for first and second round picks that don’t stay in the nhl to be playing junior hockey especially if other guys are going against the same player pool, just older and more developed. In turn, nhl teams will probably want to put these guys in the AHL so they don’t get stagnant. And in turn, more super kids like Celebrini may want to rush their way into the ncaa during their draft year so they’re more likely to be ready to jump directly into the nhl.

The NHL-CHL transfer agreement is an impotent piece in this. The AHL thing as well as the other side of how long they will have players on the reserve list to sign players if they are drafted from the CHL but then play NCAA hockey.

My guess is that the 2026 CBA is going to change the draft age from 18+ for all rounds to 18+ for the first round and 19+ for later rounds starting in 2027. Probably in lockstep the CHL will amend its agreement with the NHL to allow any signed draftee to play in the AHL starting 2027-28. The rights thing won't be that difficult to figure out, just a matter of finding something that NHL and NHLPA can agree upon. There's already a provision in the CBA that lets teams hold the rights of drafted major junior players who quit the league before age 20; they could just use the same terms for CHLers moving to the NCAA. Basically until their age 22 calendar year.

CHL is going to lose some drafted talent but it will acquire such a stockpile of younger talent from this decision that it's going to be just fine. The main thing for the NCAA is that it will get a boost of talent at age 20, more so than 18 or 19.

 

[Corso]

My guess is that the 2026 CBA is going to change the draft age from 18+ for all rounds to 18+ for the first round and 19+ for later rounds starting in 2027. Probably in lockstep the CHL will amend its agreement with the NHL to allow any signed draftee to play in the AHL starting 2027-28. The rights thing won't be that difficult to figure out, just a matter of finding something that NHL and NHLPA can agree upon. There's already a provision in the CBA that lets teams hold the rights of drafted major junior players who quit the league before age 20; they could just use the same terms for CHLers moving to the NCAA. Basically until their age 22 calendar year.

CHL is going to lose some drafted talent but it will acquire such a stockpile of younger talent from this decision that it's going to be just fine. The main thing for the NCAA is that it will get a boost of talent at age 20, more so than 18 or 19.

I've been hearing that a split draft is being looked at. Two rounds for 18 year old players and 4 rounds for either 19 or 20 year old players.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The above could come back before being drafted. Play 16,17 in CHL and commit for the fall in NCAA at 18, as far as I know.

Unless you know something everyone else doesn’t, they absolutely could and currently for the current group cannot leave the CHL at 17 or 18 for the NCAA.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The OHL and to my understanding the other two leagues encompassing the CHL, will allow players an opt out clause, with the understanding that they will forfeit the scholarship component if they do leave before their 20 year old season. A moot point really for those entering the NCAA. So no advantage to the USHL in any way.2. How is the needle moved when the USHL is still the league that allows players to play AHL prior to the age of 20 (mostly relating to European imports)?


The NHL CHL transfer agreement is in the process of being changed. You will see U-20 CHL players allowed to play some games in the AHL.

That the Q is a worse league than the U is debatable. But fine, I will grant you that more players are drafted out of the U. How many of those players remain for their 18 and 19 year old seasons? Currently, both the Q and the U have the same number of elite drafted high end talent playing. Q franchises offer paid schooling while playing. That in itself will be a solid draw. No USHL franchise matches what teams like Halifax, Quebec and Moncton offer. There are no cultural barriers playing in the east coast of Canada if you are from Mass.



Owen Power, Fantili and Celebrini chose the USHL so they could play college hockey. They now can play college hockey by going to the OHL or WHL respectively. They no longer have to go the USHL

If the CHL is going to concede all those concerns to the players, I guess that will move the needle in their direction. Then again, it hasn’t been done, and no one seems sure when it’ll occur. That should theoretically help them keep Canadian players and would also be helpful towards European imports.

The idea that the USHL might fold because of it, well I’m still not sure how that logic works. I simply don’t buy that there are a lot of American players who are jumping at the idea to join the CHL as soon as they fix these issues.

And frankly, no one has also explained to me yet (I asked you multiple times, but maybe you don’t know) how logistically a team jumping from one league to a rival league will work. Will they get to keep their players? Which rules will apply to the team? Will there be a lawsuit? That seems like an absolute nightmare to make work, if there was even the appetite for it by all sides.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Unless you know something everyone else doesn’t, they absolutely could and currently for the current group cannot leave the CHL at 17 or 18 for the NCAA.

Wow you’re amazing at twisting things
First was wouldn’t instead of would’ve ,
then moving the goalposts on the Celebrini , Fantilli discussion to something else
Now, twisting what I said about 17 years old, or being obtuse.
I’m not repeating everything twice.

I’m not answering your last post, as I’ve learned it will be useless. Have fun

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

Now with Junior players eligible to sign with NCAA schools after playing in CHL I presume...that the CHL will get rid of the overage player or should and become a developmental trifecta again

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Wow you’re amazing at twisting things
First was wouldn’t instead of would’ve ,
then moving the goalposts on the Celebrini , Fantilli discussion to something else
Now, twisting what I said about 17 years old, or being obtuse.
I’m not repeating everything twice.

I’m not answering your last post, as I’ve learned it will be useless. Have fun

You seem to want to dance around the crux of the matter.

I didn’t intentionally misquote your post. Would’ve vs. wouldn’t was a mistake on my part, but it’s an irrelevant mistake because it’s besides the point of players being penalized.

The point is that these players go to the USHL because it allows them to play college hockey at whatever age they want. The CHL does not allow them to play at any age currently. Will it change? Sounds like it will. When that happens, there’s a good chance that it could address the reason those players decided what they did. But please stop with the “they would’ve been penalized thing” as the reason. That isn’t the reason. They want control of their path, which is something the USHL allows currently and the CHL doesn’t currently. It’s not a simple “NCAA eligibility or not” matter that the CHL has to fix.

They need to allow Gavin McKenna or Landon DuPont to say to their CHL team that they want to go play next season at BC. Otherwise, the next crop of players that choose the USHL will do so and say that the lack of control to make their own choices of which league to play in which year is the reason.

 

[Juniorhockeyguru]

If the CHL is going to concede all those concerns to the players, I guess that will move the needle in their direction. Then again, it hasn’t been done, and no one seems sure when it’ll occur. That should theoretically help them keep Canadian players and would also be helpful towards European imports.

The idea that the USHL might fold because of it, well I’m still not sure how that logic works. I simply don’t buy that there are a lot of American players who are jumping at the idea to join the CHL as soon as they fix these issues.

And frankly, no one has also explained to me yet (I asked you multiple times, but maybe you don’t know) how logistically a team jumping from one league to a rival league will work. Will they get to keep their players? Which rules will apply to the team? Will there be a lawsuit? That seems like an absolute nightmare to make work, if there was even the appetite for it by all sides.

The Wenatchee Wild jumped from the BCHL to the WHL. They didn't bring any of those players to the WHL.

 

[Kingpin794]

You seem to want to dance around the crux of the matter.

I didn’t intentionally misquote your post. Would’ve vs. wouldn’t was a mistake on my part, but it’s an irrelevant mistake because it’s besides the point of players being penalized.

The point is that these players go to the USHL because it allows them to play college hockey at whatever age they want. The CHL does not allow them to play at any age currently. Will it change? Sounds like it will. When that happens, there’s a good chance that it could address the reason those players decided what they did. But please stop with the “they would’ve been penalized thing” as the reason. That isn’t the reason. They want control of their path, which is something the USHL allows currently and the CHL doesn’t currently. It’s not a simple “NCAA eligibility or not” matter that the CHL has to fix.

They need to allow Gavin McKenna or Landon DuPont to say to their CHL team that they want to go play next season at BC. Otherwise, the next crop of players that choose the USHL will do so and say that the lack of control to make their own choices of which league to play in which year is the reason.

Landon Dupont isn't playing at BC at 16 no matter how good he is. He hasn't graduated HS. How in the world would he play NCAA hockey? McKenna might be able to. Will he have the academic requirements at such a young age? If he has that down, then he can leave if he wants. Probably doesn't have the requirements atm. But we don't know that for sure.