CHL can now play NCAA - change everything !

[Bubbles]

If end result is NCAA level of play is raised, it makes it much harder to go from CHL -> Pro as most of the players they'll be going against will have played in College. Currently there are a lot of mediocre 2nd-5th round picks that are 20-22 playing in the AHL just because their CHL eligibility expired and they're not being entirely written off yet. Those guys will theoretically be in College now and coming into the AHL when they are Older/Better and NHL Orgs can be more picky about who they let on their AHL teams in terms of writing off busts if they aren't good NCAA players as they'd be more years removed from the Draft.

But once you've signed your ELC, you can't go to college. You're only CHL, AHL or the parent NHL club. Those "mediocre picks" can't go to college if they're signed. If they're not signed they either re-enter the draft or, may go to college as a recruit.

 

[Blue and Green]

There are going to be plenty of CHLers who'll be good enough to go pro when they turn 20. If they don't get an ELC, they can sign an AHL contract or an ECHL contract, or maybe catch on with a second-tier European league. There are options for a good 20YO CHLer other than the NCAA. It's not a comparable situation to USHL which is almost entirely a feeder to the NCAA.

The CHL scholarship is in a guy's back pocket if he doesn't get an ELC. If you leave the CHL as a non-overager, you can play the next two years in pro hockey if you're not signed by the NHL and then use that scholarship at university or at trade school. That flexibility is going to appeal to a lot of guys. This idea floating around that 18YO/19YO CHLers are going to be heading to the NCAA in huge numbers, I don't buy it. Not Canadians, anyway.

 

[Golden_Jet]

But once you've signed your ELC, you can't go to college. You're only CHL, AHL or the parent NHL club. Those "mediocre picks" can't go to college if they're signed. If they're not signed they either re-enter the draft or, may go to college as a recruit.

Plus need to have the grades to go to College

 

[miscs75]

This will probably make D2/D3 a better game in the end. Ideally hoping more major football/basketball universities look into and ultimately add hockey programs.

 

[Bubbles]

Plus need to have the grades to go to College

I've mentioned it on a previous posts, but seems largely ignored by most.

 

[WarriorofTime]

But once you've signed your ELC, you can't go to college. You're only CHL, AHL or the parent NHL club. Those "mediocre picks" can't go to college if they're signed. If they're not signed they either re-enter the draft or, may go to college as a recruit.

Yeah, key word being "if signed". I think the Reserve List point in the next CBA is very important. That's true if the NHL teams keep doing what they've been doing which is signing every pick from the first 4 rounds from the CHL right away then ushering them into training camp knowing that 95 % of those are sent back. If the Reserve List point changes here, you could see a lot more "we took you in the 2nd round pick and think you should go to college for a couple years, face off your former undrafted CHL opposition that is now 22 years old, rather than go play the equivalent as 19-20 year old undrafted players"

If that leads to complications of them going back in the draft/being free agents in two years that wouldn't really work but if they basically make the reserve list identical for all North American players regardless of where they are playing, then you could see more of that and thus less irrelevant junior boys in NHL training camps years before they turn pro.

Otherwise you run into kind of a weird scenario where you have 19 year old AHL first round picks, an exodus of a lot of 19 year olds, drafted or not, ready to play College Hockey that didn't pro NHL Contracts and then a donut hole for 2nd-4th round picks that signed NHL Contracts, but aren't Pro Hockey ready/teams would rather slide their ELC playing in Juniors where they are too overpowered.

 

[Blue and Green]

Yeah, key word being "if signed". I think the Reserve List point in the next CBA is very important. That's true if the NHL teams keep doing what they've been doing which is signing every pick from the first 4 rounds from the CHL right away then ushering them into training camp knowing that 95 % of those are sent back. If the Reserve List point changes here, you could see a lot more "we took you in the 2nd round pick and think you should go to college for a couple years, face off your former undrafted CHL opposition that is now 22 years old, rather than go play the equivalent as 19-20 year old undrafted players"

If that leads to complications of them going back in the draft/being free agents in two years that wouldn't really work but if they basically make the reserve list identical for all North American players regardless of where they are playing, then you could see more of that and thus less irrelevant junior boys in NHL training camps years before they turn pro.

I can't see the bolded being agreed upon, due to the substantial difference in average age and the low maximum age for junior hockey compared to NCAA.

I expect a change that if a team tables an ELC offer by a certain date and a draftee declines in order to play in the NCAA, the team will maintain his rights, wash-rinse-repeat up until a specified maximum number of seasons or age. But there is no way that NHL teams are going to be allowed effectively to force CHLers to move to the NCAA. If a 20YO CHLer has pro options he will be free to exercise them if he so chooses.

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

For a vast majority of players taken from Major Junior in Canada(CHL) after being drafted are not ready at 20 to turn Pro and compete against the AHL players that older and some are has beens,never will bees will be better served doing a year or 2 in College in the States and then turning Pro at 22-23 which is a helluva lot better that 20 when most are skinny,unrefined and not ready...Perhaps a League of 22 yr olds to 25yr olds develop from this so players can continue to play in NAmerica rather than heading overseas to Sweden,Finland,Russia,Czech and places like that

 

[Blue and Green]

For a vast majority of players taken from Major Junior in Canada(CHL) after being drafted are not ready at 20 to turn Pro and compete against the AHL players that older and some are has beens,never will bees will be better served doing a year or 2 in College in the States and then turning Pro at 22-23 which is a helluva lot better that 20 when most are skinny,unrefined and not ready...Perhaps a League of 22 yr olds to 25yr olds develop from this so players can continue to play in NAmerica rather than heading overseas to Sweden,Finland,Russia,Czech and places like that

Some will go NCAA, for sure. Some will go pro. ECHL exists and plenty of draftees at age 20 would be good enough for ECHL. Some will be good enough to sign AHL contracts, they just might not be seen as having enough upside to get an ELC. Point is, there are options besides NCAA.

 

[Bubbles]

Yeah, key word being "if signed". I think the Reserve List point in the next CBA is very important. That's true if the NHL teams keep doing what they've been doing which is signing every pick from the first 4 rounds from the CHL right away then ushering them into training camp knowing that 95 % of those are sent back. If the Reserve List point changes here, you could see a lot more "we took you in the 2nd round pick and think you should go to college for a couple years, face off your former undrafted CHL opposition that is now 22 years old, rather than go play the equivalent as 19-20 year old undrafted players"

If that leads to complications of them going back in the draft/being free agents in two years that wouldn't really work but if they basically make the reserve list identical for all North American players regardless of where they are playing, then you could see more of that and thus less irrelevant junior boys in NHL training camps years before they turn pro.

Otherwise you run into kind of a weird scenario where you have 19 year old AHL first round picks, an exodus of a lot of 19 year olds, drafted or not, ready to play College Hockey that didn't pro NHL Contracts and then a donut hole for 2nd-4th round picks that signed NHL Contracts, but aren't Pro Hockey ready/teams would rather slide their ELC playing in Juniors where they are too overpowered.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you must on the side where NCAA > CHL in terms of development. I don't think either is better, just different. Just because the NCAA is filled with older "men", that does not mean better development. As others have said, CHL is still the biggest provider of NHL talent and will for the foreseeable future.

Thus, it is not a given that there will be some mass exodus to the NCAA. For sure there will be an increase, but mostly from Americans or aging out, undrafted Canadians.

And NHL clubs have absolutely no control over player development in the NCAA. At least in the CHL they have a bit of influence, but the NCAA is interested in it's program, not developing NHLers.

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

Some will go NCAA, for sure. Some will go pro. ECHL exists and plenty of draftees at age 20 would be good enough for ECHL. Some will be good enough to sign AHL contracts, they just might not be seen as having enough upside to get an ELC. Point is, there are options besides NCAA.

Hey I like the idea of more Optrions but the ECHL doesn't produce any players save for Goaltenders for the Pro ranks...decades ago the NHL had the AHL as the main feeder and then Central Hockey League and Western Hockey League(Pro circuit)! I think the NHL needs to develop a go between League from ECHL and AHL which just isn't there yet!It would help a lot kids that struggling with playing time in the AHL now...

 

[WarriorofTime]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you must on the side where NCAA > CHL in terms of development. I don't think either is better, just different. Just because the NCAA is filled with older "men", that does not mean better development. As others have said, CHL is still the biggest provider of NHL talent and will for the foreseeable future.

Think the point here is that if right now, you have older NCAA players and younger, but slightly better on average when controlled for age CHLers, there's just two separate pools going on. Then a whole slew of 20 year old CHLers turn Pro and wind up in the AHL playing against each other every year.

Thus, it is not a given that there will be some mass exodus to the NCAA. For sure there will be an increase, but mostly from Americans or aging out, undrafted Canadians.

I think my point though is if there is the option and the expectation is NCAA teams recruit mostly from CHL (see predictions that USHL either folds or becomes the new NAHL) then the (a) separate player pool with a younger but slightly more better relative to age merges into the NCAA pool. All the non-drafted (the majority) of CHLers become NCAAers and this creates an upward pressure on Drafted players to play against the older and not less skilled undrafted pool, which can snowball if all of a sudden 2nd-4th round picks are all jumping into the NCAA acccordingly as well, and (b) due to the option and effects of (a), you have less 20 year olds graduating into the AHL, putting a 20 year old that isn't very very good at a bigger disadvantage compared to right now if other AHL rookies are leaning older than currently.

And NHL clubs have absolutely no control over player development in the NCAA. At least in the CHL they have a bit of influence, but the NCAA is interested in it's program, not developing NHLers.

Yeah, understand there's a Transfer Agreement and all that entails, but I also don't think it should be overlooked the NCAA programs that currently boast about the NHL players that have passed through and pride themselves as a place to be to develop into an NHL player as a recruitment/retention tool. Not all NCAA programs are the same.

 

[Wieters]

And NHL clubs have absolutely no control over player development in the NCAA. At least in the CHL they have a bit of influence, but the NCAA is interested in it's program, not developing NHLers.

I would say that NCAA programs being self interested and developing good NHL players aren't mutually exclusive.

College teams do want to win for its own sake. And college players legitimately want to play and win for their school for its own sake. Many of them grew up rooting for the school they ultimately end up committing to, and they imagine a lifelong relationship with the school throughout and even after their professional career is over. This is a point that is lost on many posters here who don't seem to understand that dynamic and act like everything is just about the prospect's development into being a professional.

But I don't agree that college programs are uninterested in developing players for the NHL. The sales pitch at the blue blood schools especially revolves in large part around how the facilities/resources there are as good as it gets and that time spent there is as good as anywhere else (including in the NHL if there isn't a clear path to ice time or a roster spot). So it's in the interests of colleges to turn drafted player into good pros and draft year players into draft picks.

 

[Wieters]

Personally I think this would be fun. Get the Canadians in on the NCAA!

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Jack Pridham (2005) going from West Kelowna in the BCHL to Kitchener in the O. Pridham is a Boston University commit

 

[SergeConstantin74]

So far it looks like the BCHL is going to be the biggest loser along U Sports.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Jack Pridham (2005) going from West Kelowna in the BCHL to Kitchener in the O. Pridham is a Boston University commit

and NHL 3rd round Pick

 

[Hockeyville USA]

and NHL 3rd round Pick

I think most on here knew that, they didn't know the other details

 

[SergeConstantin74]

 

[bigdog16]

Some will go NCAA, for sure. Some will go pro. ECHL exists and plenty of draftees at age 20 would be good enough for ECHL. Some will be good enough to sign AHL contracts, they just might not be seen as having enough upside to get an ELC. Point is, there are options besides NCAA.

Unless a kid is abysmal in the class room the ECHL is not even close to a better route than NCAA. You make peanuts in the coast, below minimum wage, live in mostly tertiary markets, and ride buses around the country. Its not a great lifestyle whatsoever. The NCAA is first class top to bottom, and they will get a free education on top of it.

 

[Bubbles]

Personally I think this would be fun. Get the Canadians in on the NCAA!

That would be cool. SFU already plays Div II in most of their sports. They only have a club hockey team right now, not even USports.

 

[Blue and Green]

Unless a kid is abysmal in the class room the ECHL is not even close to a better route than NCAA. You make peanuts in the coast, below minimum wage, live in mostly tertiary markets, and ride buses around the country. Its not a great lifestyle whatsoever. The NCAA is first class top to bottom, and they will get a free education on top of it.

There are lots of kids who graduate from high school without the academic requirements to get into a decent university, and some of them will be hockey players in the CHL. It's not as though all of the lesser prospects or non-prospects from CHL have been landing at Canadian universities when they finish.

CHL has always been chock-a-block with players who were considered longshots as pro prospects right from the get-go, and still they took that route. Even back in the days when there was no CHL scholarship money. Why didn't they play Junior A and then go to the NCAA? For many, it was because they lacked the inclination and/or the academic chops for university to be a realistic path.

And, while the ECHL life might not appeal to some, it's not the slightest bit difficult to find plenty of current veteran ECHLers who spent four years in the NCAA beforehand.

 

[SergeConstantin74]

There are lots of kids who graduate from high school without the academic requirements to get into a decent university, and some of them will be hockey players in the CHL. It's not as though all of the lesser prospects or non-prospects from CHL have been landing at Canadian universities when they finish.

CHL has always been chock-a-block with players who were considered longshots as pro prospects right from the get-go, and still they took that route. Even back in the days when there was no CHL scholarship money. Why didn't they play Junior A and then go to the NCAA? For many, it was because they lacked the inclination and/or the academic chops for university to be a realistic path.

When the CHL starter offering scolarship money it was exclusively for universities but now they can use it for trade schools.

 

[bigdog16]

There are lots of kids who graduate from high school without the academic requirements to get into a decent university, and some of them will be hockey players in the CHL. It's not as though all of the lesser prospects or non-prospects from CHL have been landing at Canadian universities when they finish.

CHL has always been chock-a-block with players who were considered longshots as pro prospects right from the get-go, and still they took that route. Even back in the days when there was no CHL scholarship money. Why didn't they play Junior A and then go to the NCAA? For many, it was because they lacked the inclination and/or the academic chops for university to be a realistic path.

And, while the ECHL life might not appeal to some, it's not the slightest bit difficult to find plenty of current veteran ECHLers who spent four years in the NCAA beforehand.

If you graduate high school then there are plenty of NCAA teams who would find a way for you to get into school. You don’t need to be smart by any means. My point is that if you are a 19-20 year old CHL player with options to go to the ECHL or NCAA both on the table. It would be insanely idiotic to go to the coast just from a quality of life standpoint. Top to bottom, your life is significantly bettet

 

[Corso]

If you graduate high school then there are plenty of NCAA teams who would find a way for you to get into school. You don’t need to be smart by any means. My point is that if you are a 19-20 year old CHL player with options to go to the ECHL or NCAA both on the table. It would be insanely idiotic to go to the coast just from a quality of life standpoint. Top to bottom, your life is significantly bettet

Yes, there is a belief that you need to be a really high end student in order to play D-1 sports, and that is simply not the case. Some CHL players may not yet have the required core courses but I would wager that the majority do (just by looking at graduation requirements in Ontario) and that the vast majority of CHL players will be academically eligible to play.

I agree completely, unless a player has little desire for a post secondary education ( and there are those, or those that are looking at the trades....a growing trend among young males today), why would you want to be making 600 dollars a week playing in the ECHL when you can be at a school, among your peers, while earning a degree for free?