CHL can now play NCAA - change everything !

[Boonk]

CIS doesn't always beat them but they hold their own. Split two games last year with CIS outscoring the juniors 8-5 in aggregate.

I dont think they invite any USports goalies either, which makes sense given they need to figure out who to start in camp. They're very interesting games to watch before the actual thing kicks off.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

A CHL/USHL merger would be interesting, but the geography/economics would likely make that challenging in all but a few instances. The impact on the USNTDP would also be interesting. I've felt like the program in many ways has run its course, but will this new world order cause a run to the CHL? Hard to say. A lot of Americans simply don't want to play in Canada, at least in outposts that are analogous to the least desirable outposts in say the USHL.

 

[Leviathan899]

The USHL has been operating in some form or another since 1947 and has always been having to adapt to the improvements made by the monetarily and developmentally stronger CHL system through many decades and thats not going to change lol. There are only 9 US teams in the CHL where US kids dont need to apply for Visas and they're competing with Canadians who are drafted and signed to those teams who dont count as imports on the roster. Now the best Canadian kids who are D1 commits are going for those spots too. I doubt you're going to see the influx of US kids flooding into these leagues, especially the QMJHL, that you think there will be when USA Hockey has a tried and tested development path that works and is producing talent at the NCAA, and NHL levels.

You obviously don't know or look into the logistics of all of this.

I wonder if this move being pushed by the ncaa is due to USA hockey struggling right now. Last few NTDP teams haven’t been very strong and don’t have very many top prospects, and their recent drafts haven’t been nearly as good as they were with say, the 01 age group. NCAA hockey is sort of contingent on a strong USA hockey, and with them not keeping pace recently, they see the writing on the wall and want to increase the pool of available talent. The U17 NTDP team just lost 3 straight games to Canada’s two U17 teams, and last year lost in the finals to Canada white as well. The 06’s failed to win the U18’s well, which is the NTDP’s ultimate goal. I know things are cyclical, but it feels like USA hockey has to make some changes here. Got a little too arrogant and cocky with some very talented and strong NTDP teams, and got complacent IMO.

A CHL/USHL merger would be interesting, but the geography/economics would likely make that challenging in all but a few instances. The impact on the USNTDP would also be interesting. I've felt like the program in many ways has run its course, but will this new world order cause a run to the CHL? Hard to say. A lot of Americans simply don't want to play in Canada, at least in outposts that are analogous to the least desirable outposts in say the USHL.

I think the ushl will retain more talent than many are expecting. Like you said, alot if American kids, especially the New England kids, don’t really want to move to Canada to play. They grow up with dreams of winning a national championship at the ncaa level, not playing for Moncton in the Q. The OHL area kids will likely come up in slightly higher numbers, but I don’t think it’s going to be some mass exodus. I’m sure the ushl will be fine, but may have to cut 2-3 teams.

 

[Boonk]

I wonder if this move being pushed by the ncaa is due to USA hockey struggling right now. Last few NTDP teams haven’t been very strong and don’t have very many top prospects, and their recent drafts haven’t been nearly as good as they were with say, the 01 age group. NCAA hockey is sort of contingent on a strong USA hockey, and with them not keeping pace recently, they see the writing on the wall and want to increase the pool of available talent. The U17 NTDP team just lost 3 straight games to Canada’s two U17 teams, and last year lost in the finals to Canada white as well. The 06’s failed to win the U18’s well, which is the NTDP’s ultimate goal. I know things are cyclical, but it feels like USA hockey has to make some changes here. Got a little too arrogant and cocky with some very talented and strong NTDP teams, and got complacent IMO.


I think the ushl will retain more talent than many are expecting. Like you said, alot if American kids, especially the New England kids, don’t really want to move to Canada to play. They grow up with dreams of winning a national championship at the ncaa level, not playing for Moncton in the Q. The OHL area kids will likely come up in slightly higher numbers, but I don’t think it’s going to be some mass exodus. I’m sure the ushl will be fine, but may have to cut 2-3 teams.

I think its mostly due to the legal arguments. The introductions of NIL money for students and Revenue Share pay now being able to be levied over the NCAA and their restrictions in recruitment guidelines and monetary profits against certain student athletes. At that point theres no logical and legal reasoning nor conclusion to bar CHL players who are either undrafted and/or have no pro contract, and receiving minimal stipends and monthly payments from the CHL in comparison. They would've been privy to more lawsuits, so at this point they've decided to remove the barrier all together to avoid the future legal hastles.

 

[Blue and Green]

I dont think they invite any USports goalies either, which makes sense given they need to figure out who to start in camp. They're very interesting games to watch before the actual thing kicks off.

Most years the juniors have played individual CIS programs or a group of players from maybe two or three geographically proximate programs, and the juniors usually win those. I think 2015 had been the last time that the junior camp hopefuls played a CIS all-star squad and they split the two games, same as last year.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Interesting article with some really good quotes from the perspective of the management of a couple QMJHL teams as well as the perspective of Usports men's hockey.

Halifax Mooseheads, Moncton Wildcats react to lifting of NCAA eligibility ban

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I wonder if this move being pushed by the ncaa is due to USA hockey struggling right now. Last few NTDP teams haven’t been very strong and don’t have very many top prospects, and their recent drafts haven’t been nearly as good as they were with say, the 01 age group. NCAA hockey is sort of contingent on a strong USA hockey, and with them not keeping pace recently, they see the writing on the wall and want to increase the pool of available talent. The U17 NTDP team just lost 3 straight games to Canada’s two U17 teams, and last year lost in the finals to Canada white as well. The 06’s failed to win the U18’s well, which is the NTDP’s ultimate goal. I know things are cyclical, but it feels like USA hockey has to make some changes here. Got a little too arrogant and cocky with some very talented and strong NTDP teams, and got complacent IMO.

Not sure this is actually true.

The 2004’s absolutely rival the 2001’s and won the WJC20 in dominating fashion last year. The 2005’s won the U18 worlds and are looking really good overall with the prospects they’ve developed (Smith, Leonard, Perreault, Buium, Augustine, Moore, etc).

2006’s are fairly underrated actually. The narrative around them is so stupid and warped. They dominated the competition at the WJC18 last year and got screwed over by a malcontent mercenary player who decided he needed to take the least timely and most costly penalty you’ll ever see and all of a sudden the narrative changes because of a bad half period. But they will likely have the 1OA this year. Don’t know how you can complain about that, and many of those others will develop into good players. Not saying they’re great, but they get such an unfair reputation.

2007’s look a little weak. 2008’s it’s very early. Most people haven’t even seen them play yet as a team. And by far their best player was missing for like half of the tournament. Hard to take one or two results, especially so early on and when something like that happens, to mean too much.

And even if it was true, there are ups and downs with player development. Not every draft for a country is going to be strong. Doesn’t mean you are doing anything wrong. Sometimes you randomly just lose the hockey kids to other sports in a birth year.

 

[Golden_Jet]

The CIS/USports all star teams always beat the Canadian World Junior Selection camp teams in scrimmages and thats a whole roster of the best U20 players & NHL prospects available. USports teams all time records vs NCAA in exhibition scrimmages is something like 8W-40L all time. The skill and talent gap is pretty evident at all of these levels. D1 teams often sit their best players vs NTDP exhibition scrimmages btw.

That’s hyperbole.

 

[jtechkid]

I dont mean to be condescending but obviously you dont know the difference between USHL and CHL team financial situations.

USHL is 100% in a bad place.

Lot of talk that possible 2-4 Ushl teams looking to leave the league .

 

[Bubbles]

With their current teams and history of talent both U of A and U of S would be top 10 programs, it's just the CIS doesn't have the money, well for that at least.

U of S? Lol heck no. U of A, even UNB or maybe but they pale in comparison to the facilities, money and prestige of NCAA teams.

Top 10 is a stretch, they can compete with the mid to lower div 1 clubs but there's no way they can compete with bc, mass, Michigan or any of the bigger NCAA programs.

 

[landy92mack29]

U of S? Lol heck no. U of A, even UNB or maybe but they pale in comparison to the facilities, money and prestige of NCAA teams.

Top 10 is a stretch, they can compete with the mid to lower div 1 clubs but there's no way they can compete with bc, mass, Michigan or any of the bigger NCAA programs.

was only talking team wise but yes they would challenge to be top 10 it's only the top 5 that's special. U of A and U of S are always the top dogs

At least half of their rosters could be playing in the echl/europe(a few depth ahl guys) but getting schooling first

 

[jtechkid]

I think they are 8 or 9 CHL teams that are based in the USA . They look like the huge winner from this rule. They should be looking to recruit all the top USA kids .

 

[coooldude]

For example, guys like Cal Ritchie, Beckett Sennecke, Easton Cowan, Oliver Bonk, Carson Rehkopf, Denver Barkey, Colby Barlow, Ben Danford, Sam Dickinson, Owen Allard, Luca Pinelli, Nick Lardis, Jett Luchanko, Quintin Musty, Carey Terrance would all be ineligible to join the NCAA from the OHL, as they’ve all signed NHL contracts.

Musty is a great case study here. I don't think he would have signed his ELC if he could have gone to a NCAA program. He needs to develop a more pro style game, and could do so at a top end NCAA program. Since there's no current agreement, and the ELC is signed, and he's not happy with his development at Sudbury, and he can't play AHL, he asks for (and fails to get) a trade.

The only thing that would change this is an AHL transfer agreement ... Then the NCAA is less enticing to tweener 19-20 year olds because now there's a clear pipeline to/from Junior to Pro. In that case, Musty signs his ELC and is probably playing on the Barracuda right now. So that's the next shoe to drop, which would reduce the attractiveness of the NCAA for top prospects.

 

[Blue and Green]

I think they are 8 or 9 CHL teams that are based in the USA . They look like the huge winner from this rule. They should be looking to recruit all the top USA kids .

The CHL has prospect drafts. This is not the NCAA where all of the players are recruited.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I think they are 8 or 9 CHL teams that are based in the USA . They look like the huge winner from this rule. They should be looking to recruit all the top USA kids .

It’s a draft

 

[Fatass]

I think they are 8 or 9 CHL teams that are based in the USA . They look like the huge winner from this rule. They should be looking to recruit all the top USA kids .

Maybe will see the CHL increase the number of teams down south?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Maybe will see the CHL increase the number of teams down south?

I also wonder if they expand the import roster by 1

 

[Kingpin794]

The CHL has prospect drafts. This is not the NCAA where all of the players are recruited.

There is plenty of recruiting that goes on once the drafts are done

 

[Blue and Green]

There is plenty of recruiting that goes on once the drafts are done

Which is why I said "not the NCAA where all of the players are recruited." And now that CHLers can go to the NCAA, more American kids figure to get selected.

 

[Corso]

I dont mean to be condescending but obviously you dont know the difference between USHL and CHL team financial situations.

USHL is 100% in a bad place.

Yeah some posters here are not really understanding what is going to happen.

The belief that U.S. born players will want to stay closer to home and would not want to bother with "visa" and "immigration" issues is not in anyway supported by a shred of evidence. I know some posters here are hoping/praying that the impact of this decision will be minor or of little consequence to the other leagues that are not the CHL but they are deluding themselves; much like certain league commissioners and a few NCAA coaches were when they believed that this was unlikely to happen.

Americans don't want to travel far you say? Well then please explain why the BCHL is made up of almost a third of American born players? Many of those players could have easily found spots in the NAHL or the NCDC, and some of them even the USHL. Many of those 155 American born players currently in the BCHL are from the eastern seaboard of the U.S.

Players, no matter the nationality, will go where they feel they have the best opportunities to develop. Believe me when I say that a large majority of CHL teams are among if not the best places to develop for elite talent. You can keep your head in the sand and believe that a league like the USHL will not be greatly impacted but reality is going blow that sand away in a very short time.

Now will the USHL cease to exist; all depends on how many teams bolt to the CHL. The one thing in its favor for this not to happen is geography. Most of the solid franchises in the U are simply to far away from either the WHL or the OHL to join. If the U can keep it's core teams, then yes they will be fine. Fine, however, is something totally different than what fine looks like for the league today. They will lose a lot of their top young talent. The large majority of the teams cannot compete with what the CHL offers. Few teams in the U have dedicated nutritionists like the vast majority of CHL teams do to ensure proper diets. No teams in the U, that I am aware of, have dedicated academic advisors, counselors and tutors to help players in school like all CHL teams do. Every team in the OHL pays it's players gym and training facility membership costs in the offseason so they can continue to develop. I am not aware of a single USHL team that does this. Every CHL team covers the tuition, fees and books for college classes while still in the league. No USHL team does that. Virtual all CHL clubs employ power skating instructors, strength and conditioning coaches and many even employ or have under contract sports phycologists. How many U teams do that???

We have to remember, that the CHL was not competing with the USHL for elite talent but with the NCAA (who also have everything that I mentioned that the CHL offers) and the U was merely a holding spot, if you will, before those players got to college for further development. The U no longer has that special advantage with the NCAA and it must now directly compete against the CHL. Most clubs do not have the financial resources to do so. As a result, we can expect that yes, even the majority of top American born players will choose to go to the CHL before embarking on their NCAA careers.

As for the USHL merging with the CHL, the question you have to ask yourself is why would the CHL want to merge with the U? In such a transactional world (as the business of sports is), what benefit could the USHL offer the CHL? Do you think that the OHL is simply going to give up the territorial rights to Michigan, Ohio, NY and Pennsylvania now? Absolutely not and why would anyone expect them to? Every body that I know and talked to who is close to this situation is telling me that the CHL has almost no desire to form a partnership with the USHL.

The main worry for the CHL right now is its new battle with the NCAA, not of attracting the top talent but of keeping that top talent through their 19 year old season. As for the USHL, they will have to face the fact that they will be the new NAHL of the hockey development ladder. An older league that may lack the star power of NHL bound players but still a league that churns out a ton of NCAA D-1 commitments; and you know what? There is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Golden_Jet]

There is plenty of recruiting that goes on once the drafts are done

Still limited by the 2 player import rule, and must be drafted in the import draft. Which is why I wonder if they’ll expand the import rule by 1. I assume the CHL has discussed this already, and have a position on it.

two Import players
CHL teams are allowed to keep two Import players on the roster. If the club expects to keep these two players for the upcoming season, they can pass in the Import Draft. If a CHL club has an import player that is currently signed by an NHL team out of their program, they can select a third import player.

 

[Blue and Green]

Still limited by the 2 player import rule, and must be drafted in the import draft. Which is why I wonder if they’ll expand the import rule by 1. I assume the CHL has discussed this already, and have a position on it.

two Import players
CHL teams are allowed to keep two Import players on the roster. If the club expects to keep these two players for the upcoming season, they can pass in the Import Draft. If a CHL club has an import player that is currently signed by an NHL team out of their program, they can select a third import player.

If they do permit an additional import player, I wonder if they would limit it to a player age 18+. CHL is going to be loaded with young talent; the issue going forward is that they will lose some guys of university age (18+) to the NCAA, plus I won't be surprised if the next CBA (2026) allows at least some 18YO/19YO CHLers to play in the AHL.

 

[landy92mack29]

Still limited by the 2 player import rule, and must be drafted in the import draft. Which is why I wonder if they’ll expand the import rule by 1. I assume the CHL has discussed this already, and have a position on it.

two Import players
CHL teams are allowed to keep two Import players on the roster. If the club expects to keep these two players for the upcoming season, they can pass in the Import Draft. If a CHL club has an import player that is currently signed by an NHL team out of their program, they can select a third import player.

US kids aren't imports only euros are, CHL teams can have as many US kids as they want

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Yeah some posters here are not really understanding what is going to happen.

The belief that U.S. born players will want to stay closer to home and would not want to bother with "visa" and "immigration" issues is not in anyway supported by a shred of evidence. I know some posters here are hoping/praying that the impact of this decision will be minor or of little consequence to the other leagues that are not the CHL but they are deluding themselves; much like certain league commissioners and a few NCAA coaches were when they believed that this was unlikely to happen.

Americans don't want to travel far you say? Well then please explain why the BCHL is made up of almost a third of American born players? Many of those players could have easily found spots in the NAHL or the NCDC, and some of them even the USHL. Many of those 155 American born players currently in the BCHL are from the eastern seaboard of the U.S.

Players, no matter the nationality, will go where they feel they have the best opportunities to develop. Believe me when I say that a large majority of CHL teams are among if not the best places to develop for elite talent. You can keep your head in the sand and believe that a league like the USHL will not be greatly impacted but reality is going blow that sand away in a very short time.

Now will the USHL cease to exist; all depends on how many teams bolt to the CHL. The one thing in its favor for this not to happen is geography. Most of the solid franchises in the U are simply to far away from either the WHL or the OHL to join. If the U can keep it's core teams, then yes they will be fine. Fine, however, is something totally different than what fine looks like for the league today. They will lose a lot of their top young talent. The large majority of the teams cannot compete with what the CHL offers. Few teams in the U have dedicated nutritionists like the vast majority of CHL teams do to ensure proper diets. No teams in the U, that I am aware of, have dedicated academic advisors, counselors and tutors to help players in school like all CHL teams do. Every team in the OHL pays it's players gym and training facility membership costs in the offseason so they can continue to develop. I am not aware of a single USHL team that does this. Every CHL team covers the tuition, fees and books for college classes while still in the league. No USHL team does that. Virtual all CHL clubs employ power skating instructors, strength and conditioning coaches and many even employ or have under contract sports phycologists. How many U teams do that???

We have to remember, that the CHL was not competing with the USHL for elite talent but with the NCAA (who also have everything that I mentioned that the CHL offers) and the U was merely a holding spot, if you will, before those players got to college for further development. The U no longer has that special advantage with the NCAA and it must now directly compete against the CHL. Most clubs do not have the financial resources to do so. As a result, we can expect that yes, even the majority of top American born players will choose to go to the CHL before embarking on their NCAA careers.

As for the USHL merging with the CHL, the question you have to ask yourself is why would the CHL want to merge with the U? In such a transactional world (as the business of sports is), what benefit could the USHL offer the CHL? Do you think that the OHL is simply going to give up the territorial rights to Michigan, Ohio, NY and Pennsylvania now? Absolutely not and why would anyone expect them to? Every body that I know and talked to who is close to this situation is telling me that the CHL has almost no desire to form a partnership with the USHL.

The main worry for the CHL right now is its new battle with the NCAA, not of attracting the top talent but of keeping that top talent through their 19 year old season. As for the USHL, they will have to face the fact that they will be the new NAHL of the hockey development ladder. An older league that may lack the star power of NHL bound players but still a league that churns out a ton of NCAA D-1 commitments; and you know what? There is nothing wrong with that.

You can decry others, but you quoted my post to play Mr. Expert, I asked you very specific questions in response, and of course you didn’t answer them. Instead you resort here to a passive aggressive decrying of myself (and maybe others) when you were the one that didn’t seem to have the answers you claim to have.

If you know so much, why not answer the questions I asked you? It is because you are in fact heavily slanted towards the CHL and those questions don’t favor the agenda you are pushing. Talk about hoping and praying without logic to your rhetoric.

 

[Corso]

You can decry others, but you quoted my post to play Mr. Expert, I asked you very specific questions in response, and of course you didn’t answer them. Instead you resort here to a passive aggressive decrying of myself (and maybe others) when you were the one that didn’t seem to have the answers you claim to have.

If you know so much, why not answer the questions I asked you? It is because you are in fact heavily slanted towards the CHL and those questions don’t favor the agenda you are pushing. Talk about hoping and praying without logic to your rhetoric.

You are asking why many Americans will choose the CHL now over the USHL? Well I believe I answered that in my post. I believe I gave you some solid reasons as to why a lot of elite American talent will elect to play in the CHL. You can tray and refute them if you would like.

Why wouldn't a Mass kid go to Halifax, Moncton, Cape Brenton or even Rimouski over Muskegon or Youngstown or DesMoins? American players have played in the Q. If dozens upon dozens are willing to travel across a continent to play in the BCHL, why not to a team just an 8 hour car drive away????

Funny that you think Im so biased for the CHL that on the OHL board I'm being questioned as to why I'm so crazy to believe that some high end OHL talent will choose the NCAA and not remain in the league until their 20 year old season.

I've talked to a lot of people and they were pretty adamant when they stated that the CHL doesn't have any plans at a merger, affiliation or association with the USHL. If you believe otherwise, so be it. I know you have a very great sense of importance about yourself, but honestly, no one hear really cares all that much. You can take what I posted and simply ignore it, especially if you think I'm some blowhard.

Time will prove who is right.....I wonder why though, Blake Montgomery, a Wisconsin commit and a point per game first line player for Lincoln just jumped ship to the OHL today? I suspect that he will not be the only one, even though, USHL teams (in a state of panic) are asking for the maximum in transfer fees for any player leaving for the CHL. That may help to staunch a bit of the bleeding this year but not so much for next year (where what you can ask for in transfer fees is based on a set firm amount after the ice is removed).