Confirmed with Link: Chiarot to Detroit (4x $4.75)

[ShanahanMan]

Wow. I feel so sorry for Detroit and their developing core, particularly Seider. After having watched Chiarot in Montreal for the last few years, I'm confident that he hurts his team every moment he's on the ice, despite his "ruggedness." He makes any team he's on worse.

.

I hate the signing too. To be fair, minus Seider, we don't really have any decent defensemen so at the very least, he's a second pair body.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Some of you here are being absolutely ridiculous when it comes to this contract. It's not great, but holy shit.

There is absolutely nothing anyone can say to convince me that Chiarot is worse than 71% of the 2021-2022 Redwings' blueline.

Lalonde spoke at length in an early interview about Hronek and working with him to get better defensively. I wouldn't be surprised if Hronek is the next out of town while Detroit runs at Klingberg.

You need to move on to a new fantasy

 

[Reimannsum1988]

There is absolutely nothing anyone can say to convince me that Chiarot is worse than 71% of the 2021-2022 Redwings' blueline.

The real issue is that he's not signed to a one year deal; even if he is superior to several other members of the previous year's defensive core - which, let me tell you, is debatable - he hampers the team moving forward in a significant fashion due to the high cap hit, particularly in a few years when, one would hope, the rebuild is truly complete and the team is ready to compete.

He's one of those players for who puts the lie to the "eye-test" in that he seems to be quite physically impressive at times, but drags down the team defensively and offensively.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

There is absolutely nothing anyone can say to convince me that Chiarot is worse than 71% of the 2021-2022 Redwings' blueline.


You need to move on to a new fantasy

NEVER!!!

 

[Henkka]

Don't you guys worry.

Yzerman will trade him for draft picks on the last season, when all the Left side kids are ready. Edvinsson, Wallinder, Johansson, Buium, at least 3 of those are ready.

Damn nega-nancies in here nitpicking about everything.

We finally have a team that can to to playoffs, and you are already talking about some future shit.

Future is bright, not shit!

 

[Snuggs]

Cry babies... Chiarot comes in easily as our 2nd best defensemen now. Idk if I like term.

The Montreal fan comments are funny. Chiarot only lead all skaters in ice-time during their teams magical cup run. Must of been that bad on the ice all the time.

Still a pathway for Edvisson even this year if he's really that good. Chiarot likely plays with Hronek(imo).

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Admittedly I don't know a lot about Chiarot but why are people acting like the Wings now have as much cap tied up in bad defense as San Jose last season?

Also keep in mind that after Seider and Hronek, the defensive corps included Nick Leddy's disinterested play, Marc Staal (love the guy but sloooow and getting slower), Lindstrom, Dekeyser, Oesterle, Walkman, Stecher, and Juolevi.

How is this anything but an improvement?

 

[golffuul]

Aside from last season, Chiarot, for me, still is a 3-4 d-man who can play up on the top pair, if needed. He doesn't carry a pair and is complimentary. Last year was both good and brutal for him. He forced himself to play a more offensive style with the loss of Weber and the struggles with Petry, which resulted in career numbers, but in doing so really wore himself out. I think that if he returns to his normal game, as seen in the previous couple of years, he will be a solid top 4 d-man for us. He's only 31 and I think the only real negative on the contracts is the 4th year of term. But it at least allows us the ability to not rush our defensive prospects up any faster than they need to. But it also gives our prospects a threshold to beat to take his job away from him while, possibly giving Edvinsson time to develop with less pressure.

 

[newfy]

He actually got a bit less than what this guys model was predicting...

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

If Chiarot can bring a comparable game to what Marc Staal provided, but four years younger, I'm pretty content with that.

I'm still on the fence with this one, but I think it's worth pointing out that this is a cheaper, shorter deal than we gave Dekeyser - and that was five years ago, under a stricter salary cap.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

I guess random question/thought:

Within the last 24 months: Chiarot was literally top pair D partner to Petry on the Canadiens and played a significant shutdown role for them on their way to the Stanley Cup Finals where he had an Average TOI of 25mins; tons of time on the penalty kill, etc.

Then MTL totally implodes and fire sales the next year, and Chiarot becomes arguably a Top 10 Trade Piece at the TDL and was extremely expensive for the President's Trophy Winning Panthers costing a 1st, decent prospect+.

I did watch bits and pieces of the WAS/FL series and he looked ...fine; or at least I didn't notice him being bad or a liability. What I did notice is that he was playing again - high quality minutes besides Ekblad.

He seemed like a steady, stay at home, contributes little to nothing on the offensive end of the ice, but is always thinking defense first, throws his body, is a strong skater...

I guess my question is to the MTL/FL peeps who watched him closer or maybe our own guys who are more familiar with him...why is there such a overwhelmingly reaction that this is a "bad deal"; when he has historically played prominent roles with two playoff contenders and seems to bring a lot of steady D at least from the very limited viewing I've had of him and glancing over his stats and usage - respectable +/- given his usage, good blocks, not a lot of giveaways, etc. What's the deal here?

 

[Gniwder]

Well, I guess we got our big slow defenseman that throws a few hits. We get Chiarot instead of Zadorov and the board goes crazy.

Definitely overpayment, but that's what happens in free agency. Would have preferred 2 or 3 years though.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

I guess my question is to the MTL/FL peeps who watched him closer or maybe our own guys who are more familiar with him...why is there such a overwhelmingly reaction that this is a "bad deal"; when he has historically played prominent roles with two playoff contenders and seems to bring a lot of steady D at least from the very limited viewing I've had of him and glancing over his stats and usage - respectable +/- given his usage, good blocks, not a lot of giveaways, etc. What's the deal here?

I think the short answer is that Ben Chiarot is one of the most polarizing players in terms of how he is viewed by traditional hockey brass vs. how he is viewed in terms of analytics. Advocates of Chiarot will point out his defensive responsibility, compete level, fundamentals, penalty killing, etc. Critics will point out that he takes too many penalties, doesn't transition the puck effectively, spends too much time in his own zone, etc.

I don't know where I land on the player personally. I think there is some very legitimate criticism to chew on, but ultimately I understand the reasoning behind the signing and want to see how he looks under Lalonde this year.

Analytic snap shot for context (disclaimer - JFresh is not the be all and end all)

 

[Oddbob]

Man, people getting bent out of shape on here. Whle I wish it was closer to 4 miliion than 5, this is still an upgrade to our trash blueline, and you have to pay to get upgrades. Talk of Chiarot being one of the worst blueliners in the league couldn't be more hyperbole or straight up bull shit. He is a physical blueliner who can handle decent minutes and maybe for the first time in a long time, we will have someone who keeps the front of our net from being a free for all.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Well, I guess we got our big slow defenseman that throws a few hits. We get Chiarot instead of Zadorov and the board goes crazy.

Definitely overpayment, but that's what happens in free agency. Would have preferred 2 or 3 years though.

After perusing this thread, you sure have a funny definition of the "board going crazy."

 

[jkutswings]

Holy hell we watched that team.

Pfft. Maybe you did.

 

[Gniwder]

After perusing this thread, you sure have a funny definition of the "board going crazy."

Well maybe not crazy, but there's definitely some hate for this signing here and in the FA Frenzy thread where people are giving this signing a D-.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

I think the short answer is that Ben Chiarot is one of the most polarizing players in terms of how he is viewed by traditional hockey brass vs. how he is viewed in terms of analytics. Advocates of Chiarot will point out his defensive responsibility, compete level, fundamentals, penalty killing, etc. Critics will point out that he takes too many penalties, doesn't transition the puck effectively, spends too much time in his own zone, etc.

I don't know where I land on the player personally. I think there is some very legitimate criticism to chew on, but ultimately I understand the reasoning behind the signing and want to see how he looks under Lalonde this year.

Analytic snap shot for context (disclaimer - JFresh is not the be all and end all)

So its "Analytics Tells Us He's Bad" vs. "Coaches Put Him on the Top Pair"?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Well maybe not crazy, but there's definitely some hate for this signing here and in the FA Frenzy thread where people are giving this signing a D-.

ah ok. Sorry I thought you meant crazy like people were rejoicing.

D-? Yeah that's s bit harsh.

 

[The Zermanator]

Which guy are we going to cast in a #1 role on the left side they can’t handle this season?

Stay tune to find out on season 8 of our defense sucks without Lidstrom!

Honestly it's probably time to re-think that attitude about our D. May not be Lidstrom, but we have a bona fide #1 dman again in Seider. The Leddy-Seider pairing looked really solid last year. And Chiarot/Maatta are of similar calibre to Leddy, albeit defensively-oriented. Seider made much worse dmen passable in the role last season. Like Lidstrom did with guys like Ian White.

So now we basically have four top 4 dmen in Seider/Chiarot/Maatta/Hronek. 3 of those 4 guys may be 2nd pairing players, but Seider will ensure that top pairing is adequate and that leaves your 2nd pairing occupied by... 2nd pairing dmen. Problem for years was we had 2nd pairing players tasked with carrying a top pairing, and a plethora of #5-6 dmen occupying #2-6 on the depth chart. So one player who's already out of his depth is being dragged down by scrubs way out of their depths. Seider has corrected that ecosystem.

Biggest factor now is Edvinsson and how much/quickly he develops. This team could have an actually good D corps by season's end, should Ed's learning curve be even half as quick as Seider's. Imagine Edvinsson becomes able to hang on the top pair with Seider this season.

Edvinsson-Seider
Chiarot-Hronek
Maatta-Lindstrom

Suddenly the Red Wings have a quality D corps that's versatile and tough as hell to play against.

As for Chiarot, I like this signing. He's a physical player who will bring an element we'd been sorely missing for a long time, bar Seider's contribution last season. Given the cap space available, it's a contract that reasonably affordable for a reasonable length. And it's not so long/expensive that it should be difficult to move down the line. I like the identity that seems to be shaping up for next season.

 

[Oddbob]

Well maybe not crazy, but there's definitely some hate for this signing here and in the FA Frenzy thread where people are giving this signing a D-.

I don't love the money as I thought 4X4 tops for what he brings, (knew he wouldn't, but was hoping 3-4years X3.5), but at the same time we have a boatload of cap and lower end teams always have to overpay to bring in guys who want to be on contending teams. At least with him, we have a defender aside from Seider who plays physical and has no problem keeping the front of the net clean. I hope for him to be more in the 18-20 minutes a night though, than 21+, as I think there is a limit to his ability. I think he is more 4-5 than 2-4 as far as slotting goes.

Honestly it's probably time to re-think that attitude about our D. May not be Lidstrom, but we have a bona fide #1 dman again in Seider. The Leddy-Seider pairing looked really solid last year. And Chiarot/Maatta are of similar calibre to Leddy, albeit defensively-oriented. Seider made much worse dmen passable in the role last season. Like Lidstrom did with guys like Ian White.

So now we basically have four top 4 dmen in Seider/Chiarot/Maatta/Hronek. 3 of those 4 guys may be 2nd pairing players, but Seider will ensure that top pairing is adequate and that leaves your 2nd pairing occupied by... 2nd pairing dmen. Problem for years was we had 2nd pairing players tasked with carrying a top pairing, and a plethora of #5-6 dmen occupying #2-6 on the depth chart. So one player who's already out of his depth is being dragged down by scrubs way out of their depths. Seider has corrected that ecosystem.

Biggest factor now is Edvinsson and how much/quickly he develops. This team could have an actually good D corps by season's end, should Ed's learning curve be even half as quick as Seider's. Imagine Edvinsson becomes able to hang on the top pair with Seider this season.

Edvinsson-Seider
Chiarot-Hronek
Maatta-Lindstrom

Suddenly the Red Wings have a quality D corps that's versatile and tough as hell to play against.

As for Chiarot, I like this signing. He's a physical player who will bring an element we'd been sorely missing for a long time, bar Seider's contribution last season. Given the cap space available, it's a contract that reasonably affordable for a reasonable length. And it's not so long/expensive that it should be difficult to move down the line. I like the identity that seems to be shaping up for next season.

Yes, if Seider can make Dekeyser look playable for 60 or so games, than Maatta or Chiarot will be fine.

 

[Reddwit]

It’s a little much, but let’s not get upset here. We have plenty of cap space and Yzerman isn’t Kenny.

I think he’ll be great with Seider.

This is important, because Steve won’t hesitate to work the phones to move a guy who isn’t working out. Holland would just live with it as long as it’s a guy he signed.

 

[Reddwit]

For the entirety of my hockey fandom, 25+ years now, one of the things that has consistently remained the same is that defenseman like Chiarot get overpaid in free agency and it’s almost always a polarizing signing. Fanbases only appreciate defensive defenseman when they’re cheap.

 

[NickH8]

I think the short answer is that Ben Chiarot is one of the most polarizing players in terms of how he is viewed by traditional hockey brass vs. how he is viewed in terms of analytics. Advocates of Chiarot will point out his defensive responsibility, compete level, fundamentals, penalty killing, etc. Critics will point out that he takes too many penalties, doesn't transition the puck effectively, spends too much time in his own zone, etc.

I don't know where I land on the player personally. I think there is some very legitimate criticism to chew on, but ultimately I understand the reasoning behind the signing and want to see how he looks under Lalonde this year.

Analytic snap shot for context (disclaimer - JFresh is not the be all and end all)

The transitioning and getting the puck out of the zone are things Seider will help with big time. I think those two will work together well.

 

[Roy S]

I guess random question/thought:

Within the last 24 months: Chiarot was literally top pair D partner to Petry on the Canadiens and played a significant shutdown role for them on their way to the Stanley Cup Finals where he had an Average TOI of 25mins; tons of time on the penalty kill, etc.

Then MTL totally implodes and fire sales the next year, and Chiarot becomes arguably a Top 10 Trade Piece at the TDL and was extremely expensive for the President's Trophy Winning Panthers costing a 1st, decent prospect+.

I did watch bits and pieces of the WAS/FL series and he looked ...fine; or at least I didn't notice him being bad or a liability. What I did notice is that he was playing again - high quality minutes besides Ekblad.

He seemed like a steady, stay at home, contributes little to nothing on the offensive end of the ice, but is always thinking defense first, throws his body, is a strong skater...

I guess my question is to the MTL/FL peeps who watched him closer or maybe our own guys who are more familiar with him...why is there such a overwhelmingly reaction that this is a "bad deal"; when he has historically played prominent roles with two playoff contenders and seems to bring a lot of steady D at least from the very limited viewing I've had of him and glancing over his stats and usage - respectable +/- given his usage, good blocks, not a lot of giveaways, etc. What's the deal here?

He's been fine in a bottom pairing role. Even the people who run the advanced analytic models say that, because he's above average at clearing the zone. It's when he has to do more than that, then your team will get out-chanced and outscored when he's on the ice and he'll take tons of penalties (and draw very few of his own) and cost your team goals in that way too. So, he becomes a negative player in any top 4 role at this point in his career.

Even in Montreal, just looking at traditional stats, he was a -6 in the playoffs and was a -16 in the regular season during their miracle, fluke Cup final run. This past year, even if just looking at the playoffs, he only played 17 minutes a night for Florida and was a -1 and the Panthers were significantly out-chanced when he was on the ice. He's also 31 and players like him tend to age poorly, so the last year or two of the deal could be very rough. He could even start declining more noticeably this upcoming season.

I think he's fine if he plays on the bottom pairing and they just give him lots of PK time and D zone face-offs. But, I'm guessing they'll play him with Seider or Hronek and top 4 minutes and he'll be a negative in his role.