Chiarot - Seider

[FabricDetails]

Confirmation bias is fun.

 

[jaster]

Confirmation bias is fun.

Some surprising names on that second list, starting with Hedman.

 

[norrisnick]

Some surprising names on that second list, starting with Hedman.

That is the one that really stuck out to me.

 

[Frk It]

Some surprising names on that second list, starting with Hedman.

Would have been funny to sign Klingberg and watch @OgeeOgelthorpe defend his defensive game that is even worse than Hronek's.

 

[heyfolks]

Any over 30 player on this team is deadline deal available. Problem is not many will want most of them.

Chiarot - 19 million over 4 in his first year. Not likely. The toughness and leadership he was supposed to bring has not materialized. Zero chemistry with Mo. This appears to be a bad signing.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Would have been funny to sign Klingberg and watch @OgeeOgelthorpe defend his defensive game that is even worse than Hronek's.

Klingberg on Detroit would be better than Klingberg in Anaheim. Don’t kid yourself.

 

[Indrid Cold]

Ed. If Ed isn't at least a middle pair D long term, this team is screwed anyways.

Everyone wants to get rid of Chiarot, unfortunately NHL contract are guaranteed, though the buyout on his contract doesn't look all that bad.



Hronek looks better when paired with Maatta than with Chiarot. That's why I'd rather re-sign Maatta and shift Chiarot to RD.

Trading Chiarot is the ideal solution, but it's not going to happen.

If they can dump him at the deadline for next to nothing, do it. That was a dumb signing from the get-go. But doing so would mean SY admitting he was wrong, and that likely won't happen.

 

[Frk It]

If they can dump him at the deadline for next to nothing, do it. That was a dumb signing from the get-go. But doing so would mean SY admitting he was wrong, and that likely won't happen.

Yzerman traded Leddy at the next trade deadline after acquiring him.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Confirmation bias is fun.

I'm so confused by this stat. Isn't WAR Wins Above Replacement? So it's saying that we would win 0.5 more games if we got rid of Chiarot? But only for defense? How is it only for defense? Like if we replaced him with a player that had identical offense, but league average defense, that's how many more games we would win?

 

[Henkka]

I'm so confused by this stat. Isn't WAR Wins Above Replacement? So it's saying that we would win 0.5 more games if we got rid of Chiarot? But only for defense? How is it only for defense? Like if we replaced him with a player that had identical offense, but league average defense, that's how many more games we would win?

It's funny stat.

Like if every team would get rid of their worst defencemen, and replace them with AHL-level replacement players, with this logic, there would never be worse players than replacement level players!

Except, there would be the next wave of worse players than replacement level of players, and they should get rid of them! And replace them with ECHL level players. And get rid also of them!

 

[Gniwder]

Yzerman traded Leddy at the next trade deadline after acquiring him.

You gotta wonder how things would have turned out if Stevie had traded for Graves instead of Leddy.

Graves was already accustomed to playing with a young developing star RHD, had a couple of years left on his contract, and would have made signing Chiarot unnecessary. Plus at 6'5" he meets Stevie's height requirement.

 

[Henkka]

You gotta wonder how things would have turned out if Stevie had traded for Graves instead of Leddy.

Graves was already accustomed to playing with a young developing star RHD, had a couple of years left on his contract, and would have made signing Chiarot unnecessary. Plus at 6'5" he meets Stevie's height requirement.

Still this same Graves shit?

You just can't get over it?

Same stories all over again.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Can Graves griddy? Didn't think so.

 

[Ricelund]

Still this same Graves shit?

You just can't get over it?

Same stories all over again.

ShOulD’Ve SiGnEd MaLkIn

 

[TKB]

Confirmation bias is fun.

For the love of god, I would love to see what happens when the "replacement" takes Hedman's 24 minutes and assignments every night.

 

[Gniwder]

Still this same Graves shit?

You just can't get over it?

Same stories all over again.

MOD

The big relevance here is that Graves would have made signing Chiarot unnecessary, which would have been a huge win in hindsight.

Can Graves griddy? Didn't think so.

Well I guess there is that, it was basically the highlight of this crap season. All moot if he doesn't re-sign though.

 

[Reddwit]

Klingberg on Detroit would be better than Klingberg in Anaheim. Don’t kid yourself.

Offensively? Probably. Defensively? Well the fancy stats aren’t looking so good without better defenseman to hide behind and he’s angling to have his team’s worst +/- for the 2nd time in 2 years across 2 separate franchises so I doubt we’d be especially happy with him right now.

It’s actually kinda funny to imagine swapping out Hronek with Klingberg this year - cause that would’ve meant our initial go-to “solution” for the abysmal Chiarot-Seider pairing would’ve likely been assembling a Chiarot-Klingberg pairing, somehow making things even worse.

 

[Reddwit]

Confirmation bias is fun.

Marcus Pettersson is a guy who was allegedly on the block last year who I wanted the wings to target before they went out and bought Maata and Chiarot. If he’s available again in the off-season (there were rumblings last year they wanted to avoid his NMC kicking in), I’d target him as a more permanent solution for Hronek’s pair. He’s still only 26.

Also interesting that Nashville is allegedly open to moving Ekholm, given that he’s still so sound defensively. I guess they’re getting a jump on his likely downfall over the course of that contract. I’d probably still trade for him but only if Nashville took Chiarot straight across.

 

[Macoun]

Marcus Pettersson is a guy who was allegedly on the block last year who I wanted the wings to target before they went out and bought Maata and Chiarot. If he’s available again in the off-season (there were rumblings last year they wanted to avoid his NMC kicking in), I’d target him as a more permanent solution for Hronek’s pair. He’s still only 26.

Also interesting that Nashville is allegedly open to moving Ekholm, given that he’s still so sound defensively. I guess they’re getting a jump on his likely downfall over the course of that contract. I’d probably still trade for him but only if Nashville took Chiarot straight across.

Yeah he’s as solid as the come and would fit with either Seider or Hronek. Chiarot was a bad signing and needs to be on the third pair next season. Who cares what his salary is. He’s not a top four defenseman

 

[norrisnick]

Why don't you just agree that he made a mistake and we'll move on? You're like the Kraken ED deniers, lol. The board there still thinks Francis did a good job. I called the Leddy/Graves trade when it happened, you can do a search and find it.

The big relevance here is that Graves would have made signing Chiarot unnecessary, which would have been a huge win in hindsight.


Well I guess there is that, it was basically the highlight of this crap season. All moot if he doesn't re-sign though.

Yzerman didn't make a mistake. He made a different move than you wanted.

At the start of last season the RHD on the Wings were 20, 21, and 23 with a combined 196 games of NHL experience.

It was a conscious decision to trade for a guy with 776 games of experience rather than a guy with 149.

And even then, he traded a 2nd and a warm body for Leddy. And then he flipped Leddy for a 2nd and two warm bodies. One of said warm bodies being Walman who looks pretty comfortable on the top pairing right now.

 

[Gniwder]

Yzerman didn't make a mistake. He made a different move than you wanted.

At the start of last season the RHD on the Wings were 20, 21, and 23 with a combined 196 games of NHL experience.

It was a conscious decision to trade for a guy with 776 games of experience rather than a guy with 149.

And even then, he traded a 2nd and a warm body for Leddy. And then he flipped Leddy for a 2nd and two warm bodies. One of said warm bodies being Walman who looks pretty comfortable on the top pairing right now.

Both Walman and Graves are UFA after this season.

Having Graves would make signing Chiarot unnecessary. If you like the Chiarot signing then I guess the trade was OK, but I'm liking that contract less and less as the season goes on.

If you think overpaid subpar and mediocre players, more power to you. I can disagree, lol.

 

[norrisnick]

Both Walman and Graves are UFA after this season.

Having Graves would make signing Chiarot unnecessary. If you like the Chiarot signing then I guess the trade was OK, but I'm liking that contract less and less as the season goes on.

If you think overpaid subpar and mediocre players, more power to you. I can disagree, lol.

Walman and Graves being UFA is completely irrelevant.

Chiarot was not signed to be a long-term core piece of a competitive foundation. He was signed to be a veteran presence in the room and on the blueline while our younger players develop into the long-term core pieces we hope they can become.

It's not as simple as Big LHD = Big LHD. Reducing it to that is silly.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

I was a big fan of this pickup for a number of the reasons already stated in the thread but it does seem like a poor fit. It's not that he can't have moments, its just he seems to lack....the discipline to play a sound and consistently dependable game. Like he gets too excited and runs off on both sides of the ice, either to jump in a take a bad shot from the point, or to chase a hit out of position leaving his partner out to dry.

I have no idea how to walk back from this deal, I don't think he's "worthless", veteran defenseman always seem to be at a premium in this league and always seem to return something but there's still quite a bit of term here on his deal so someone is going to have to commit to him for a while. Maybe a hockey trade for a better fit might be the best path forward?

 

[Gniwder]

Walman and Graves being UFA is completely irrelevant.

Chiarot was not signed to be a long-term core piece of a competitive foundation. He was signed to be a veteran presence in the room and on the blueline while our younger players develop into the long-term core pieces we hope they can become.

It's not as simple as Big LHD = Big LHD. Reducing it to that is silly.

Then argue with everyone else that doesn't like the contract. I'm not the only one....

As for size, Graves isn't as physical, but he has experience playing with a developing rookie star, while Chiarot has sent Seider backwards in development. I didn't think Chiarot was bad early in the season, but he just seems to get sloppier every game.

Graves would have been better for Seider's development because quite frankly Chiarot needed to be separated and that about says it all.

 

[norrisnick]

Using this a the D corp thread.

Lalonde was asked about putting Maatta and Hronek together again. Specifically cites not wanting to drop Chia to 5/6 as a reason not to. Even though Maatta/Hronek were great together.

That's a bad reason, imo. ES ice is largely even anyway.