LeBrun: Chiarot likely to be dealt and return a 1st round pick

[OilersCoffeeArtBeer]

If the oilers pay the price of a first, I would hope there is retention involved and the taking back of one Kyle turris.

 

[Archijerej]

If you want to pump up by saying a guy played 20+ minutes on a Cups Final team, then you have to acknowledge that he was outscored badly for the majority of the year on that Cup Final team.

Comparing 16 games to 41 games is so useful.

1. How much of that outscoring was done by Tampa in the Finals?

2. You realize teams sometimes use defence pairings on suicidal missions and it's a foregone conclusion they are going to be outscored? The trick is to give the rest of your lineup breathing room and allow them to win their matchups and, in the end, the game. The Habs did just that last playoffs.

 

[Garo]

He's in pretty much ideal circumstances to be traded, so it wouldn't surprise me. Has proven playoffs runs, is easy to fit in a team's structure, has negligible cap impacts this year and even moreso if some retention happens, plus you're not stuck with a contract next year if you don't want one. A first might raise some eyebrows for some but there's hardly any questions about him if his health holds up.

 

[Hostile Offer]

That would be an overpayment but I'll take it. He's physical, has a pretty good shot and is a solid skater but also a poor passer and prone to defensive mistakes, although in Montreal he's generally been asked to punch above his weight class so that might make him look worse than he is.

 

[Qwijibo]

If the oilers pay the price of a first, I would hope there us retention involved and the taking back of one Kyle turris.

Montreal has no cap space. So you’d get retention OR dumping Turris. Not both.

 

[Ishad]

 

[WatchfulElm]

He's the Habs best D this season. Which tells a lot about the state of the Habs Ds.

But I've always liked him as a Habs fan. He was a rock last playoffs. But since I want a rebuild, I'll take the 1st.

 

[Archijerej]

 

[Barnaby]

I’d say a 1st is possible. It’s still too early to know what the market will look like.

 

[BlackAdam]

Any GM who trades a 1st for literal Ben Chiraot should be fired immediately.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Any GM who trades a 1st for literal Ben Chiraot should be fired immediately.

TBL traded a 1st for Savard as a big physical defensive Dman last year. Nobody got fired.

 

[Dr Quincy]

1. How much of that outscoring was done by Tampa in the Finals?

2. You realize teams sometimes use defence pairings on suicidal missions and it's a foregone conclusion they are going to be outscored? The trick is to give the rest of your lineup breathing room and allow them to win their matchups and, in the end, the game. The Habs did just that last playoffs.

The outscoring wasn't simply "in the Finals" because I wouldn't base a guy's value on a tiny sample size, good or bad. That's how bad decisions are made. The outscoring was on the season as a whole. A season in which he was a -16 on a team that everyone is saying "was a Cup Finals team". I don't love +/- as a stat, but I also don't love "time on ice" as a stat to judge how good a player is either, and that's the one people are using to pump him up. He had the worse +/- on the whole team for the regular season. Sure, that might have to do with Dzone starts and tough match ups.

Which leads to the question: If a defensive dman who takes a lot of dzone starts and plays against tough matchups does really poorly in those matchups... how good of a defensive dman is he?

I don't think he's a bad player. I do think he'll have some value to a team at the deadline. I wouldn't be surprised if someone gives up a 1st for him. I just think that team will regret it.

It's ironic that MTL has 1 real LD on the team besides Chiarot (Romanov) has no LD on the farm that's really ready, and yet here most Habs fans are happily shopping this great #3 defensive stud who played 20+ minutes on a Finals team. There's nobody to replace him... but they'd rather get a 1st than keep him.

Which tells you that other teams should probably make that same evaluation and keep the 1st rather than trade it for him.

 

[SoundAndFury]

TBL traded a 1st for Savard as a big physical defensive Dman last year. Nobody got fired.

Except for the fact that Savard is (was?) MUCH better than Chiarot.

 

[Demon Wolf]

Chiarot is a good pickup for a rental team. The guy mostly plays solid defense, and he was a rock in the playoffs.

Except for the fact that Savard is (was?) MUCH better than Chiarot.

I haven't seen much of Savard before his Habs stint but he's mostly looked like a corpse on skates. Chiarot is much better.

 

[Archijerej]

Which leads to the question: If a defensive dman who takes a lot of dzone starts and plays against tough matchups does really poorly in those matchups... how good of a defensive dman is he?

He's pretty decent. Not a top pairing guy by any stretch, despite being used as such in Montreal, but a perfectly capable complementary defenceman on the 2nd pairing on a good team. Which is exactly what Montreal's trading partners are going to be looking for.

I don't think he's a bad player. I do think he'll have some value to a team at the deadline. I wouldn't be surprised if someone gives up a 1st for him. I just think that team will regret it.

Why would they regret it? If they're getting back a #4D who brings a physical dymension and can raise his game during the playoffs, you think they will care about a late 1st rounder? To be perfectly honest, I thought there's going to be enough LD's on the market that Chiarot is not going to fetch a 1st, but it seems Lindholm, for example, is off the market and Chiarot is playing well, so that changes the landscape, especially if someone is looking to make a trade early.

I mean, sure, someone might regret it. Chiarot might turn out to not be a good fit for whatever reason (happens all the time), or he's going to be fine, but his new team will end up being eliminated early regardless. But there's a pretty large grey area between such a take and one that says "o my God, he's terrible! Nobody is going to give up that much for a 3rd pairing defenceman". That's absurd.

It's ironic that MTL has 1 real LD on the team besides Chiarot (Romanov) has no LD on the farm that's really ready, and yet here most Habs fans are happily shopping this great #3 defensive stud who played 20+ minutes on a Finals team. There's nobody to replace him... but they'd rather get a 1st than keep him.

Not sure if you're serious with this, but I'll just assume you're not familiar with our situation.

The brilliant architect Marc Bergevin has left us with 3 defencemen of basically an identical profile in terms of a role they should be utilized in (Edmundson, Chiarot, Savard). Out of these 3 Chiarot is a pending UFA. We're capped out, facing a rebuild and most of our best prospects are LHD's. The decision to trade Chiarot has nothing to do with his quality as a player. We are hardly in a position to bid for his services in the offseason. It's a no-brainer decision.

Again, he's not a top pairing defenceman. Not a core player that you build around. But let's not act like only those kind are traded for a 1st round pick at the deadline.

 

[HabsQC]

Fixed it for ya Watson.

One of the best insider just confirmed it was likely, just admit you were wrong, it doesn't hurt. Saying Chiarot might get a first isn't crazy at all. He's a very solid 2nd pairing D, even on a contender. It's probably going to be a very low 1st, but if Lebrun says it's likely to happen it's because he talked to GMs in the league. You can keep laughing, but you're the one who looks like a fool and doesn't know what to say anymore.

And for the record, I thought he was going to fetch a 2nd tops (you can search my posts), but other Habs fans were ridiculed for even mentionning a first. Now they have Lebrun backing them up.

I know people on these boards like to just blindly hate whatever is related to the Habs instead of having actual discussions, you seem to be like one of those people.

 

[The Management]

I can see it. Wouldn't want my team to pay it, but I can see the right team giving up a first for some depth and sandpaper on defense.

 

[HF007]

Hopefully not, won't be good for my fantasy team

 

[Gaud]

Chiarot is a good pickup for a rental team. The guy mostly plays solid defense, and he was a rock in the playoffs.



I haven't seen much of Savard before his Habs stint but he's mostly looked like a corpse on skates. Chiarot is much better.

I have always heard Savard was a luxury 3rd pair D. Chiarot seems to be able to do an honest job at 2nd pair. You know, not great, but honest. I thought he did great in teh last playoffs though, not to mention he is our 2nd scorer (*facepalm*). However, both look aweful as how slow they are is exposed without a puck moving goalie like Price. Chiarot>Savard IMO and Chiarot gets 1st because he is robust ,because he did well in teh playoffs and because there will be a few teams calling.

 

[DFF]

Except for the fact that Savard is (was?) MUCH better than Chiarot.

Probably was but it’s debatable. Definitely not now.

 

[Captain97]

Montreal has no cap space. So you’d get retention OR dumping Turris. Not both.

? Retaining half and taking on turris would be completely fine for the Habs. Pretty sure they gain cap space in that trade.

 

[Ishad]

Any GM who trades a 1st for literal Ben Chiraot should be fired immediately.

ristolainen got a 1st and a 2nd. Never underestimate how bad GMs are at their job.

 

[Baksfamous112]

The outscoring wasn't simply "in the Finals" because I wouldn't base a guy's value on a tiny sample size, good or bad. That's how bad decisions are made. The outscoring was on the season as a whole. A season in which he was a -16 on a team that everyone is saying "was a Cup Finals team". I don't love +/- as a stat, but I also don't love "time on ice" as a stat to judge how good a player is either, and that's the one people are using to pump him up. He had the worse +/- on the whole team for the regular season. Sure, that might have to do with Dzone starts and tough match ups.

Which leads to the question: If a defensive dman who takes a lot of dzone starts and plays against tough matchups does really poorly in those matchups... how good of a defensive dman is he?

I don't think he's a bad player. I do think he'll have some value to a team at the deadline. I wouldn't be surprised if someone gives up a 1st for him. I just think that team will regret it.

It's ironic that MTL has 1 real LD on the team besides Chiarot (Romanov) has no LD on the farm that's really ready, and yet here most Habs fans are happily shopping this great #3 defensive stud who played 20+ minutes on a Finals team. There's nobody to replace him... but they'd rather get a 1st than keep him.

Which tells you that other teams should probably make that same evaluation and keep the 1st rather than trade it for him.

News flash; Montreal is on its way to a full rebuild, so just like Buffalo and Arizona, we don’t care who’s going to replace Chiarot after this season. It is most likely going to be a pilon who will eats the hard minutes and help shelter the younger guys

 

[MXD]

Or he's just good old Ben Chiarot from his Winnipeg days... if I'm a random team paying a first I'd probably go for Petry even though he's been struggling.

...You didn't watch Petry play lately and isn't otherwise aware that he just signed until 24-25, did you?

 

[JustAHabFan]

Except for the fact that Savard is (was?) MUCH better than Chiarot.

Seeing both Savard and Chiarot played in Montreal, I really think you don't know what you are talking about. Chiarot is much better than Savard.