LeBrun: Chiarot likely to be dealt and return a 1st round pick

[Kurtz]

If Savard returned a 1st last year, I don't see why this guy can't (with 50% retention).

Would be a boon for the Habs as well - didn't they give up their own first for Dvorak?

 

[Colezuki]

If Savard returned a 1st last year, I don't see why this guy can't.

Would be a boon for the Habs as well - didn't they give up their own first for Dvorak?

Nah it’s going to be Carolinas

to clarify they traded the Better of either Carolina or MTLs pick unless one fell in the top ten and then MTL kept that one

 

[montreal]

I usually like your post, but to use +/- to measure the usefulness of a player?

Lazy.

plus the Habs went to shit after the condensed schedule went to super condensed thanks to the NHL when they made them play 24 games in 42 days. Price was out, Allen who was a solid backup, was a terrible starter for us during that brutal run into the playoffs. I said this many times when Hab fans were shitting all over Kotkaniemi as he ran out of gas from playing every other day as did most of the team.

 

[montreal]

If Savard returned a 1st last year, I don't see why this guy can't (with 50% retention).

Would be a boon for the Habs as well - didn't they give up their own first for Dvorak?

most likely it will be the Canes pick that the Yotes get, unless the Habs and their -34 goal differential somehow figure out how not to suck so badly. It's top 10 protected so the Habs just need not to end up at 11th OA and then the Yotes get the Canes pick.

 

[Sky04]

Maybe actually watch him he has been very good in Montreal

I watched him gift us a cup thanks, keep the pylon and sign him to an 8 year deal.

 

[Sky04]

He's not. He already has 5 goals on our putrid shit team and he is solid.

Someone has to score on that awful team.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Nucks win two in a row.

Benning trades an unprotected 1st for f***ing Chiarot of Fire.

 

[Extra Texture]

I get 'Don Waddell in Atlanta' vibes from a rumor like this. Like some desperate GM barely hanging onto their job sniffs the playoffs and is willing to spend a whole lot to get there.

Hextall, just say no.

I'm tired of the Pens dealing their 1st round picks for guys who, at best, are middle of the pack forwards or defensemen.

No way the Pens make a move for him, IMO. If Hextall does that, with the absolute financial logjam we have tied up in expensive D men (and before sorting out other areas of the team) then he and Burke must be sniffing glue.

 

[tgo0]

No shit sherlock. Lebrun saying it gives the thought a lot of weight. Evoking he would return a 1st still is laughed at by the vast majority of other teams fans.

Fixed it for ya Watson.

 

[66-30-33]

Hextall, just say no.

I'm tired of the Pens dealing their 1st round picks for guys who, at best, are middle of the pack forwards or defensemen.

Pens are shitty now, we need to keep our picks from now on unless it's for no brainers. Just let Hextall and Pryor go to work like they did in Philly and get us some nice talent.

 

[abo9]

I've been saying it since the end of the playoffs...

Savard fetched a first rounder
Chiarot is built in the same mold, and showed he was a "winner" by playing on a finalist team

of course playoff teams will offer a first to have the honour to play the sweet sweet Chariot

 

[Kurtz]

And he was a -16 on that Stanley Cup Finals team. Maybe some people realize that a player playing on a good team isn't automatically really good. He's also playing on a really bad team this year, which doesn't make him really bad. Maybe what you can "learn" if you have an open mind is to value the player not just look at how his team did in 1 artificially rigged playoff situation.

What you list as "evidence" may be "evidence". But it doesn't mean it's convincing evidence once you look past the superficial "his team was good so he is good" argument. Because if you use simple metric, I guess that means he's bad this year. I mean... why would you go against the evidence?

I feel dirty for sticking up for a Habs player, but he was -6; 16 is the number of penalty minutes he accrued (which is kind of a joke in itself given his crosscheck/minute rate in the playoffs).

-6 is not great off course, but keep in mind that he was the defensive matchup dman going against the first lines.

 

[abo9]

With his goal tonight he is tied in 2nd place for most goals on the Habs this year

I dont know if im trying to raise his value here or if im just going to erase this message since its pretty sad actually

him playing the PP is probably enough to tell Montreal has offensive issues

 

[snipes]

If any team had a 1st on the table he would have been traded already.

 

[CupofOil]

I don't think a 1st is outlandish. He's been playing top 4 minutes the last 3 seasons and had a pretty solid playoff run.
I wouldn't want my team to give up a 1st for him but I could see a few putting up that offer.

 

[OVO16]

I could totally see him being traded for a 1st

 

[RBZ]

He 100% will get a first round pick.
He plays hard minutes and once playoffs roll around he will be a cross checking machine.

 

[kabidjan18]

And he was a -16 on that Stanley Cup Finals team. Maybe some people realize that a player playing on a good team isn't automatically really good. He's also playing on a really bad team this year, which doesn't make him really bad. Maybe what you can "learn" if you have an open mind is to value the player not just look at how his team did in 1 artificially rigged playoff situation.

What you list as "evidence" may be "evidence". But it doesn't mean it's convincing evidence once you look past the superficial "his team was good so he is good" argument. Because if you use simple metric, I guess that means he's bad this year. I mean... why would you go against the evidence?

Lol. You got mad. I'm amused.

He wasn't playing on a good team. He was the primary player on a good team. What Chiarot does and what he represents is something that's really important in the modern game, in NHL hockey.

You could look at his -6 +/- in the playoffs and insist "this means something!" Scroll down a bit. He had 38% offensive zone starts. Lowest of any defenseman on the team. See, not all minutes are equal. There are times when your opponent is more likely to score than others. There are periods of the game, depending on the personnel on the ice, depending on the positioning of the puck on the ice, game state and so on, where the other team is going to score. The only question is, how many goals are you going to give up?

That the type of player Chiarot is. He plays half the game, he plays under the hardest circumstances, and he gives up fewer goals than other defensemen forced to play the same minutes. No, his stat sheet isn't going to look pretty. It's going to hurt his "analytics", but this is part of the evolution of analytics that people are realizing, it doesn't just matter what your goals and assists or even plus minus is, but who you're playing against or what would happen if anyone else was forced to play those minutes. And maybe to some extent we still have a hard time quantifying that. Which is why we have to look at results instead of necessarily being able to predict who is the future Ben Chiarot.

But the bottomline is that I think GMs and coaches in general are realizing the value of a player like Ben Chiarot. It's impossible not to notice after the past, 3-4 seasons results. Even Tampa paid a 1st, a 3rd, and a 4th for David Savard, ostensibly a 5th defenseman. You can find issue with JBB's decisions or valuations but his team went on to win the Stanley Cup that year with the statistically best defense of the playoffs (the 2nd best offense). Whether or not you agree with him, or even if he was only partially seeing the picture, he and other GMs are starting to see the value in some things that previously were undervalued because of the limits of some data.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I think he's just as likely to return a 3rd and a junk prospect.

Only a handful of 1sts are traded every year. I can't imagine any contender is dumb enough to blow their first on this guy.

 

[Archijerej]

I thought a 1st was optimistic and unlikely, but with the way he's playing, I buy it.

Chiarot's a decent player. Tough as nails and competitive. As the stakes go up, so does his game. A contender is probably deep enough to use him as a complementary defenceman on the 2nd pairing, which is the proper role for him. Can play big minutes if necessary.

I think whoever trades for him is going to be happy as soon as he settles into a new system. Took him about 20 games when he was signed by the Habs.

 

[likash]

Jim Benning likes this.

 

[CherryToke]

If Chiarot is worth a 1st, JT Miller is worth 3 firsts

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Eric Engels report:

We surveyed four executives from around the NHL on Wednesday to ask what they felt that would look like, and each of them said a first-round pick should be obtained.

“Go through the list of free-agent D-men and you won’t find too many who bring as much nastiness as he does,” said the first one. “Watching him in the playoffs over the last couple of years, he’s a throwback. A total pain in the ass to play against, and he’s a horse.”

Another executive texted: “Tampa was willing to give up first-rounders for rentals you wouldn’t think would fetch them over the last couple of years, but they clearly had good reason to believe it would be worth it. There are a few teams this year who believe they have a chance to win and an even better one if they get a player like him, so it’s realistic they’ll be willing to pay that price.”

“He’ll get a first,” said the third. “If it’s not a first, a second won’t get it done on its own. You’d need a prospect or another pick in there.”

We shared that assessment with the fourth and he agreed, adding, “There’s been chatter in the market about Chiarot for weeks already.”

 

[Tommy Shelby]

Remember when Paul Gaustad fetched a 1st rounder?

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

 

[66-30-33]

If Chiarot is worth a 1st, JT Miller is worth 3 firsts

JT Miller to Pens for Brian Boyle, Mike Matheson, POJ. That's 3 1st round picks.