Confirmed with Link: [CHI/VAN] Gustav Forsling traded for Adam Clendening

[Pip]

Agreed, Forsling's progress is very impressive. No doubt it's that trajectory that interested the Hawks.

This deal is similar to the Vey trade, in that we snatched a developed prospect away from a club with a reputation for excellent scouting and development. In both scenarios the other club decided to replace the prospect with a younger asset. My sense is that LA had a good look at Vey and decided to cut ties. Chicago seems to have done the same with Clendenning.

These are two well-run teams that have graduated a ton of young players through their systems in recent years. Clendenning was in the Hawks system long enough for the team to be very familiar with him. They decided to trade him for a younger, less developed player. I really like these deals from LA and Chi's perspective, I think it's a good way to manage your assets. I like it less from our perspective, as you'd have to think our scouts saw something in these players that the teams that were much more familiar with them didn't.

Time will tell if Clendenning will be an NHL player. The similarities to Gragnani are.... troubling. But, our defence is a lot worse than it was back when we got Gragnani, so uhhhh maybe Clendennning will get a longer look than MAG?

I agree, I just hope that it was more of a depth issue with Clendening than them simply trying to get assets for someone they no longer believe in.

but man does it ever show the benefits of being a good drafting team, that the guys who you can't fit in the lineup still have good value league wide.

 

[sda]

Had 59 pts in 74 gp last year. He's 22. Seems good to me.

He lost his job on the pp to a career ahler. He also seemed to be passesd on the depth chart by 2 or 3 others. Not really sure if he is a prospect or ahler

 

[deckercky]

He lost his job on the pp to a career ahler. He also seemed to be passesd on the depth chart by 2 or 3 others. Not really sure if he is a prospect or ahler

He lost his job on the PP to a better prospect Chicago received in the Leddy trade.

 

[Tiranis]

He lost his job on the pp to a career ahler. He also seemed to be passesd on the depth chart by 2 or 3 others. Not really sure if he is a prospect or ahler

To me it's a concern that he came into the season having good history with the organization and yet was outcompeted for a spot by Trevor van Riemsdyk who had zero AHL experience or familiarity with the Blackhawks.

 

[Reign Nateo]

Soon we can see him play in the NHL and not wildly speculate based on nothing.

 

[F A N]

It does, I agree. Forsling was a 5th round pick though, and 30 teams passed up the chance to draft him 4 and in some cases 5 times, sure he's tracked well but how far can his value go up in a mere 7 months?

Clendening being a former 2nd round pick doesn't mean he is worth a 2nd round pick today. Forsling's worth could easily have been increased to that of a 3rd or 4th round pick considering Forsling is a full time member of a SHL and his performance in the WJC. Scouts place great value on how 1) a prospect plays against men and 2) how a prospect plays against his peers. Forsling now has some good comparisons for scouts to gauge his skills.

My sense is that LA had a good look at Vey and decided to cut ties. Chicago seems to have done the same with Clendenning.

These are two well-run teams that have graduated a ton of young players through their systems in recent years. Clendenning was in the Hawks system long enough for the team to be very familiar with him. They decided to trade him for a younger, less developed player. I really like these deals from LA and Chi's perspective, I think it's a good way to manage your assets. I like it less from our perspective, as you'd have to think our scouts saw something in these players that the teams that were much more familiar with them didn't.

You are missing the key point in both the Vey and Clendenning trades. LA looked at Vey and his waiver eligibility, looked at their depth chart, and decided there wasn't really a spot for Vey. Chicago looked at the same thing. They looked at Clendenning, liked what they saw in Rundblad, and decided to trade Clendenning because there really wasn't going to be a spot for Clendenning next year.

From this trade's perspective, I don't see why anyone should like it less from our perspective as Chicago has let go of a few NHL ready prospects that failed to crack their lineup that have contributed to their new teams. Jimmy Hayes, Dylan Olsen, Ryan Stanton, Brandon Pirri , Jeremy Morin, Brandon Pirri, Rob Klinkhammer. Quite a few names.

 

[Tiranis]

Jimmy Hayes, Dylan Olsen, Ryan Stanton, Brandon Pirri , Jeremy Morin, Brandon Pirri, Rob Klinkhammer. Quite a few names.

Your list basically boils down to Jimmy Hayes. Stanton is probably the best out of the rest and that's not saying much.

 

[realist99]

Honestly I've been kind of shocked how highly people have rated Forsling in the last 24 hours. The only thing of significance on his resume was some good point totals in a seven game tournament. People seem to get excited over the smallest things.

Sure he's would have been an interesting prospect to track over the next several years but the smart money would be on him not ever becoming an NHL player.

I'm pretty surprised there's really any negative reaction to this deal.

Ditto. 99% of the posters wouldn't recognize Forsling if he was standing in line beside them waiting to buy a coffee.

People get excited over the unknown ...as in Forsling could become the next Borje Salming

 

[drax0s]

We have a quote from an NHL general manager who specifically said that Jim Benning was an easy person to negotiate with. That's not a good thing.

Being a good negotiator isn't about sticking to your guns until you get your way - it's about finding a common value to facilitate trade. Benning can adamantly demand that the Hawks trade us Clendening for Cederholm all he wants, but it's not going to ****ing happen. You can try the Craig MacTavish route of habitually overvaluing your players and not accepting anything but... and then you end up with a team that's still in rough shape because all you've managed to add to it is waiver wire pickups and FA signings. I guarantee the Oilers would be in better shape if they'd traded Yak for players to fill their roster holes.

I'd bet Benning specifically targeted Clendening because of his value profile to the Canucks. He's young, NHL ready, a PPQB and a RHD -- all things the Canucks definitely need (and he fits that profile perfectly). Post WJC-Forsling's value about a 2nd round pick, which is about what I'd value Clendening at too (if not a bit more - was the top scorer on the IceHogs as a defenseman). To me, Clendening == Forsling.

The big difference? Clendening is likely NHL ready and can help now.

 

[opendoor]

Your list basically boils down to Jimmy Hayes. Stanton is probably the best out of the rest and that's not saying much.

Yeah, intuitively getting guys who are buried in deep organizations seems like it'd be a way to get good players, but I'm not sure that's really the case in practice. That Chicago list is mostly a whole lot of nothing, and you can throw in guys like Holland from Anaheim, Loktionov from LA, or even Connauton from the Canucks.

Well managed teams tend to not trade away good young players if they don't have to. Yeah Chicago has good depth, but it's not like they have absolutely no room on the right side. Trevor van Riemsdyk walked from the NCAA into NHL and Roszival's contract expires at the end of the year. Their actions with regard to Clendening don't strike me as ones that would be made by a management group that was confident that he'd be a good NHL player. Hopefully they're wrong.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Then let them make their trade. Don't be a sucker.

If you take that attitude you never ever make a trade.

 

[realist99]

Yeah, intuitively getting guys who are buried in deep organizations seems like it'd be a way to get good players, but I'm not sure that's really the case in practice. That Chicago list is mostly a whole lot of nothing, and you can throw in guys like Holland from Anaheim, Loktionov from LA, or even Connauton from the Canucks.

Well managed teams tend to not trade away good young players if they don't have to. Yeah Chicago has good depth, but it's not like they have absolutely no room on the right side. Trevor van Riemsdyk walked from the NCAA into NHL and Roszival's contract expires at the end of the year. Their actions with regard to Clendening don't strike me as ones that would be made by a management group that was confident that he'd be a good NHL player. Hopefully they're wrong.

In any pro sports, it all comes down to an opinion when evaluating players. There would never be any trades if that wasn't the case. There are thousands of examples. Since Chicago is involved in this one how about this ...

Traded to Chicago by Philadelphia with Eric Meloche for Matt Ellison and Chicago's 3rd round choice (later traded to Montreal - Montreal selected Ryan White) in 2006 Entry Draft, December 5, 2005. Played in NHL All-Star Game (2011)

Chicago got a not bad player in that trade.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Yeah, intuitively getting guys who are buried in deep organizations seems like it'd be a way to get good players, but I'm not sure that's really the case in practice. That Chicago list is mostly a whole lot of nothing, and you can throw in guys like Holland from Anaheim, Loktionov from LA, or even Connauton from the Canucks.

Well managed teams tend to not trade away good young players if they don't have to. Yeah Chicago has good depth, but it's not like they have absolutely no room on the right side. Trevor van Riemsdyk walked from the NCAA into NHL and Roszival's contract expires at the end of the year. Their actions with regard to Clendening don't strike me as ones that would be made by a management group that was confident that he'd be a good NHL player. Hopefully they're wrong.

They may be quite confident that they have an NHL player. Just not one that fits their age criteria.
What the top teams tend to do is keep filling in young prospects so that they have depth at every position and every age group.
Chicago is stacked with depth at Clendening's age group on defence. They just replaced a 22 year old with an 18 year old who may pan out to give them depth 4 years down the road. The same thing LA did when they traded Vey.

 

[realist99]

Yea every GM should be a hard a$$ like Gillis. Always a day late and a dollar short in his attempts to 'maximize' his returns. After a while your reputation precedes you and no one ends up trusting you.

 

[opendoor]

In any pro sports, it all comes down to an opinion when evaluating players. There would never be any trades if that wasn't the case. There are thousands of examples. Since Chicago is involved in this one how about this ...

Traded to Chicago by Philadelphia with Eric Meloche for Matt Ellison and Chicago's 3rd round choice (later traded to Montreal - Montreal selected Ryan White) in 2006 Entry Draft, December 5, 2005. Played in NHL All-Star Game (2011)

Chicago got a not bad player in that trade.

Sharp was an NHL regular at that point and the Bobby Clarke era Flyers were hardly a hallmark of astute management. Not really comparable to upcoming waiver eligible AHLers being traded from well managed teams like the rest of the examples.

 

[racerjoe]

Soon we can see him play in the NHL and not wildly speculate based on nothing.

Do you not know us well? The wild speculation will continue just on other things.

 

[Barney Gumble]

Yea every GM should be a hard a$$ like Gillis. Always a day late and a dollar short in his attempts to 'maximize' his returns. After a while your reputation precedes you and no one ends up trusting you.

Mr Nice Guy Nonis method doesn't seem to work either.

 

[Angry Little Elf]

Mr Nice Guy Nonis method doesn't seem to work either.

You need a happy medium between the two.

 

[realist99]

Sharp was an NHL regular at that point and the Bobby Clarke era Flyers were hardly a hallmark of astute management. Not really comparable to upcoming waiver eligible AHLers being traded from well managed teams like the rest of the examples.

To clarify, I am not comparing Sharp to Clendening. The point is, thousands of trades have been made where one team values a player more than another team. Sometimes they are right, and sometimes not.

Add that to the fact that this was also a trade of need for the Canucks. To help replenish an age group and especially replenish a position.

Only time will tell, but the initial optics look good for the Canucks for their specific situation.

 

[realist99]

You need a happy medium between the two.

Mr Nice Guy Nonis method doesn't seem to work either.

Nonis has a tough time pulling the trigger also. Very indecisive. Gillis was also indecisive because he had to win every trade.

Benning seems to have a plan, and he definitely seems to know what he wants. Whether his choices are right or wrong has yet to be written.

I don't think anyone could say he doesn't have a large mess to clean up.

 

[NoShowWilly]

I agree, I just hope that it was more of a depth issue with Clendening than them simply trying to get assets for someone they no longer believe in.

but man does it ever show the benefits of being a good drafting team, that the guys who you can't fit in the lineup still have good value league wide.

not just a good drafting team. Having a lot of picks does a lot for a team in the future. We trade all of our picks away and it needs to stop.

Since 2000 Chicago has had:

16 1st RD picks
23 2nd RD picks
17 3rd RD picks

Lots of these have busted or been mediocre but when you get that many shots it makes a huge difference.

Since 2000 Vancovuer has had:

15 1st RD Picks
9 2nd RD picks
12 3rd RD picks

 

[slappipappi]

Being a good negotiator isn't about sticking to your guns until you get your way - it's about finding a common value to facilitate trade. Benning can adamantly demand that the Hawks trade us Clendening for Cederholm all he wants, but it's not going to ****ing happen. You can try the Craig MacTavish route of habitually overvaluing your players and not accepting anything but... and then you end up with a team that's still in rough shape because all you've managed to add to it is waiver wire pickups and FA signings. I guarantee the Oilers would be in better shape if they'd traded Yak for players to fill their roster holes.

I'd bet Benning specifically targeted Clendening because of his value profile to the Canucks. He's young, NHL ready, a PPQB and a RHD -- all things the Canucks definitely need (and he fits that profile perfectly). Post WJC-Forsling's value about a 2nd round pick, which is about what I'd value Clendening at too (if not a bit more - was the top scorer on the IceHogs as a defenseman). To me, Clendening == Forsling.

The big difference? Clendening is likely NHL ready and can help now.

A very good summary. vancouver valued more highly a NHL ready guy. The Hawks valued more highly a guy who needed development and wasn't waiver eligible.

A trade should meet the needs of both teams, and this trade proves that exact point.

 

[Evolu7ion]

To me it's a concern that he came into the season having good history with the organization and yet was outcompeted for a spot by Trevor van Riemsdyk who had zero AHL experience or familiarity with the Blackhawks.

That shouldn't be a concern - the Blackhawks were looking for reliability in the spot TVR won over Rundblad and Clendening. The Canucks however have a gaping hole on the point for both PP1 and PP2, Clendening has the tools to fill that nicely.

 

[Evolu7ion]

In case anyone is interested, here is Mckeens' (most reliable independent scouting body) scouting report on Clendening:

"Scouting: a poised and cerebral blueliner .. possesses exceptional vision of the ice and can dissect opposing defenses with clinical proficiency .. hands are skilled and strong – and provide outstanding puck and stick control .. delivers searing long-range strikes – pinpoint passes on the tape – without a hint of telegraphing his ideas beforehand .. quarterbacks the power play with precision and efficiency .. shows a natural flair for creating lanes .. skillful at selling the shot and slipping a half-pass instead .. mixes and manages his offensive arsenal – varying up his shot and play selections – and tailoring shooting deliveries to suit the situation .. what makes it all work is a unique gift for holding the puck and disguising his intentions .. balanced, upright skater .. legs are shorter relatively speaking and limit stride length and top speed .. not that adept moving backwards either, although compensates with a strong transition step and a solid first-step burst .. can be vulnerable defending outside speed – and gets caught flat-footed defending around his net .. gradually making adjustments though in his positioning and 1-on-1 angles .. able to contain gaps by keeping his feet and stick activated .. future NHL power-play specialist."

 

[Barney Gumble]

Nonis has a tough time pulling the trigger also. Very indecisive. Gillis was also indecisive because he had to win every trade.

Benning seems to have a plan, and he definitely seems to know what he wants. Whether his choices are right or wrong has yet to be written.

Sometimes though, the best move to make is not to make a move.