Player Discussion Charlie McAvoy IV

[chizzler]

McAvoy hasn't been the same since his shoulder surgery.

This. I’ve been in this street since. He’s like Krug with his shoulder. It changes they’re game. Krug lost that slapshot and MacAvoy doesn’t hit shoulder to shoulder anymore. It most definitely has affected him. He’s also trying to do too much. I think the team and him should decide what he’s going to be going forward. Is it a solid all around defenseman or an offensive defenseman? I think they need to take him off the PP. It’s not is forte. He telegraphs passes too much. Lohrei need to take that roll or a forward.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

This. I’ve been in this street since. He’s like Krug with his shoulder. It changes they’re game. Krug lost that slapshot and MacAvoy doesn’t hit shoulder to shoulder anymore. It most definitely has affected him. He’s also trying to do too much. I think the team and him should decide what he’s going to be going forward. Is it a solid all around defenseman or an offensive defenseman? I think they need to take him off the PP. It’s not is forte. He telegraphs passes too much. Lohrei need to take that roll or a forward.

He is paid $9M+ to play on PP1 as part of his gig. Add in no Bergeron to elevate him
defensively the last two years, he plays like a $7M dman. Right now, put McAvoy on NYR, Colorado, Dallas, Vegas, and Detroit I would slot him as the 2RD. On TB, Nashville, Florida and Winnipeg he is the #2D overall. He was outplayed two years in a row by Brandon Montour when he was in Florida.

On Dallas and Vegas he is playing as the #3 D behind Harley and Theodore. That is pretty much where his game is now league wide. Clearly not top 5-6 and trending at
Werenski, Sergachev and Hamilton level league wide.

Not saying I would trade him even up for say Hamilton or AP but that's where he is at
NHL wide.

 

[Greek_physique]

He is paid $9M+ to play on PP1 as part of his gig. Add in no Bergeron to elevate him
defensively the last two years, he plays like a $7M dman. Right now, put McAvoy on NYR, Colorado, Dallas, Vegas, and Detroit I would slot him as the 2RD. On TB, Nashville, Florida and Winnipeg he is the #2D overall. He was outplayed two years in a row by Brandon Montour when he was in Florida.

On Dallas and Vegas he is playing as the #3 D behind Harley and Theodore. That is pretty much where his game is now league wide. Clearly not top 5-6 and trending at
Werenski, Sergachev and Hamilton level league wide.

Not saying I would trade him even up for say Hamilton or AP but that's where he is at
NHL wide.

So based on your logic, he's arguably a top 5-10 dman in the NHL, which IMO, he's always been.

I personally ain't worried about his struggles as our entire team is a mess + he's playing with a turnover machine in Lohrei.

He's way too talented to not figure this out, especially with all the changes we've seen this offseason.

IMO, with the exception of Makar and Hedman, if you put McAvoy on any of those other teams, he'd have a lot more support to be a top 5 dman. Seider hasn't been that much better than him and Serg, Werenski etc don't have the overall game that McAvoy has.

Keep calm and move on

 

[goldenblack]

So based on your logic, he's arguably a top 5-10 dman in the NHL, which IMO, he's always been.

He was. Sort on D-men on NHL.com going back to 22-23. So pretty decent sample size.

Suddenly he looks like #20 to me, my most metrics. Now personally, I think #20 can make the money he makes. And will as the cap climbs. So he's probably going to play right at his deal. At a time, it looked like value.

 

[hrdpuk]

All the D were struggling under JM's system this year . JM was not good at matching his system to the roster.
Sacco is righting the ship
Mac will be fine

 

[KillerMillerTime]

So based on your logic, he's arguably a top 5-10 dman in the NHL, which IMO, he's always been.

I personally ain't worried about his struggles as our entire team is a mess + he's playing with a turnover machine in Lohrei.

He's way too talented to not figure this out, especially with all the changes we've seen this offseason.

IMO, with the exception of Makar and Hedman, if you put McAvoy on any of those other teams, he'd have a lot more support to be a top 5 dman. Seider hasn't been that much better than him and Serg, Werenski etc don't have the overall game that McAvoy has.

Keep calm and move on

I didn't mention Brock Faber or Dahlen who right now he isn't playing as a well as. I
put him 13-17, not 5-10.

Makar
Fox
Heiskanen
Seider
Hedman
Josi
AP
Morrissey
Forsling
Faber
Dahlen
Theodore
Harley

I watch a boatload of hockey and the above are more impactful than McAvoy this year.
Than you have Dobson, Hamilton, Sergachev and Werenski at McAvoy level this year. Also Doughty has been hurt all year, so good chance another guy that is at his level. Guy is trending down the list of top 15 dmen and may fall out of top half of top 30.

 

[chizzler]

I didn't mention Brock Faber or Dahlen who right now he isn't playing as a well as. I
put him 13-17, not 5-10.

Makar
Fox
Heiskanen
Seider
Hedman
Josi
AP
Morrissey
Forsling
Faber
Dahlen
Theodore
Harley

I watch a boatload of hockey and the above are more impactful than McAvoy this year.
Than you have Dobson, Hamilton, Sergachev and Werenski at McAvoy level this year. Also Doughty has been hurt all year, so good chance another guy that is at his level. Guy is trending down the list of top 15 dmen and may fall out of top half of top 30.

He’s trending down due to his team sucking. That’s how it works. All those guys would suck on shitty teams. Is Dahlen that good? Buffalo sucks.

 

[DominicT]

I didn't mention Brock Faber or Dahlen who right now he isn't playing as a well as. I
put him 13-17, not 5-10.

Makar
Fox
Heiskanen
Seider
Hedman
Josi
AP
Morrissey
Forsling
Faber
Dahlen
Theodore
Harley

I watch a boatload of hockey and the above are more impactful than McAvoy this year.
Than you have Dobson, Hamilton, Sergachev and Werenski at McAvoy level this year. Also Doughty has been hurt all year, so good chance another guy that is at his level. Guy is trending down the list of top 15 dmen and may fall out of top half of top 30.

Where is Hughes?

 

[KillerMillerTime]

He’s trending down due to his team sucking. That’s how it works. All those guys would suck on shitty teams. Is Dahlen that good? Buffalo sucks.

He was on a record setting 135 point team and got outplayed by Forsling & Montour in the 2023 PO and was brutal in G7. I would move him for Faber for certain and this is after Faber signs his next contract, which will be $8M. Minnesota sure as hell won't do it.

Where is Hughes?

Yup, Q. Hughes also.
Point is McAvoy doesn't have some inalienable right to a top 10 position because he has been a couple of times. Lots of really good D-Men in the NHL.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

He’s trending down due to his team sucking. That’s how it works. All those guys would suck on shitty teams. Is Dahlen that good? Buffalo sucks.

Yes, he is.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Currently, 89 other defensemen have more points per game than McAvoy.

Only 19 defensemen get more ice time.

Only 5 have more penalty minutes.

136 defensemen have a better plus/minus.

And he hasn't been good on either special team.

 

[Dr Hook]

Here's a legit question for some of our Xs and Os people that know more about hockey than I do: what is Charlie McAvoy doing on the PP that keeps him running that #1 unit season in and season out? Is it simply that the team has decided that as the #1 defenseman he HAS to run the PP too? Value for contract money? Because I don't see what he brings to the PP that makes him irreplaceable out there. Maybe I am missing something, though, hence the question.

I also want to state that I like the player and while I think he's overpaid for what he actually brings, he is a solid top pair NHL d man and I am glad we have him. Just not running the 1st PP unit.

 

[JAD]

Here's a legit question for some of our Xs and Os people that know more about hockey than I do: what is Charlie McAvoy doing on the PP that keeps him running that #1 unit season in and season out? Is it simply that the team has decided that as the #1 defenseman he HAS to run the PP too? Value for contract money? Because I don't see what he brings to the PP that makes him irreplaceable out there. Maybe I am missing something, though, hence the question.

I also want to state that I like the player and while I think he's overpaid for what he actually brings, he is a solid top pair NHL d man and I am glad we have him. Just not running the 1st PP unit.

I share the frustration. The past couple of years and now into a third McAvoy's development really has stagnated. I don't know if it's related to his shoulder injury, coaching over that time, or a combination of both. I do know that he is the best RD that we have on the team and that there isn't a team in the league that wouldn't want McAvoy on their roster.

We have been spoiled in Boston for almost fifty years with elite defensmen, from Orr, to Park, to Bourque, to Chara. Our expectations are set extremely high. McAvoy, while a very good defensman, has not yet elevated his level of play to even come close to matching the aforementioned abilities to control a game.

McAvoy when carrying the puck does not project the same aura of confidence in abeing able to control game tempo. His body language, puck control, and decision making always seem rushed and uncertain. Expectations can often cause a player to try and do too much and stray from the things they do really well. McAvoy needs to stay within his game and play within his strengths and abilities. And for him, at this point in time, that should be his primary concern.

I'm still hoping that as he enters his prime years that his experience gathered to this point and maybe a different voice, game strategy, and developmental guidance will restore and instill a yet unreached level of confidence and poise that will be displayed in his on ice game. Some players get it and take their game to another level; others though extremely talented never elevate. At worst he is at the moment our team's best defensmen.

The contract he signed was based on still untapped potential; and whether that potential is ever reached or exceeded is still yet to be determined. As fans we become frustrated because we see flashes of that potential mixed with plays and game reactions we believe he is better than. In reality he may never be more than he has shown. I for one will remain optimistic that eventually confidence clicks with his ability. Hopefully, with time he will carve out his own unique legacy with Boston.

 

[TCB]

Here's a legit question for some of our Xs and Os people that know more about hockey than I do: what is Charlie McAvoy doing on the PP that keeps him running that #1 unit season in and season out? Is it simply that the team has decided that as the #1 defenseman he HAS to run the PP too? Value for contract money? Because I don't see what he brings to the PP that makes him irreplaceable out there. Maybe I am missing something, though, hence the question.

I also want to state that I like the player and while I think he's overpaid for what he actually brings, he is a solid top pair NHL d man and I am glad we have him. Just not running the 1st PP unit.

You’re one of the most knowledgeable here, imo. And imo you hit the Nail right on the head here.

Ray Bourque was asked about McAvoy and he point blank said, Although he has all the skills he doesn’t take charge out there and he doesn't use his shot enough. He looks for others to take Charge ala Pastrnak and to be a pp qb you need to take charge and shoot the puck, because so many good things can happen off of a shot, just ask Neely. “I wasn’t looking for him I was shooting”.

It just surprises me they keep throwing him out there, when to me Lohrei looks like a guy who has all the tools to be a great pp qb.

 

[Dr Hook]

You’re one of the most knowledgeable here, imo. And imo you hit the Nail right on the head here.

Ray Bourque was asked about McAvoy and he point blank said, Although he has all the skills he doesn’t take charge out there and he doesn't use his shot enough. He looks for others to take Charge ala Pastrnak and to be a pp qb you need to take charge and shoot the puck, because so many good things can happen off of a shot, just ask Neely. “I wasn’t looking for him I was shooting”.

It just surprises me they keep throwing him out there, when to me Lohrei looks like a guy who has all the tools to be a great pp qb.

Thanks for the compliment! Now I have to live up to it.Oh, the pressure!!! I was watching when Bourque said that and I keep coming back to it. The thing is, Mac is now 27 and and in his 8th pro season. He is an established vet at this point, so it's looking more and more like he is what he is at this stage. I am hopeful that he will take that last step to be elite, but I am starting to doubt if he ever well. That said, he is still a top level #1 D man in the league. The Bruins just need someone else to run their top PP unit.

 

[TCB]

Thanks for the compliment! Now I have to live up to it.Oh, the pressure!!! I was watching when Bourque said that and I keep coming back to it. The thing is, Mac is now 27 and and in his 8th pro season. He is an established vet at this point, so it's looking more and more like he is what he is at this stage. I am hopeful that he will take that last step to be elite, but I am starting to doubt if he ever well. That said, he is still a top level #1 D man in the league. The Bruins just need someone else to run their top PP unit.

Hopefully Sacco /Sweeeney/Neely gets a copy of the tape and takes what he said with consideration.

He’s a top notch defenseman but he may be best suited for pp 2.

 

[BamBamCam]

A 2 bit head with a 9.5 million dollar contract

 

[KillerMillerTime]

A 2 bit head with a 9.5 million dollar contract

Last 2 years, which coincide with no #37, have seen him drop down the list of top D-Men in the NHL. This year he is absolutely outside the top 15 and IMO in the 20's.

 

[quietbruinfan]

I am with KillerMiller. He is around 15-20 in the league. He is sometimes much worse than that. His shoulder injuries have definitely affected his play, especially this last one. He never has had a great slapper and he may have lost a little off it. He does shoot against weak goalies and weak teams, which tells me it is about 50-50 as to whether it is a confidence issue or an effectiveness issue. Personally, I wish he would shoot more, but understand why he does not.
I think the big problem on the PP is not Mac, but the fact that they no longer have a net front guy to make the formation work and they don't have a bumper guy either. (Thanks for nothing Sweneely) They don't have any strong shots from the point either. Those who think Lorhei is a good solution are flat wrong. He just developed a slap shot and one timer in the past year. Combine that with his lousy d as the last man back and we are talking pp2 at best.

One other thing about Mac, I have always felt he would go home and be a Ranger or an Islander eventually. I feel that even more now. I doubt S weenie has considered it though.

 

[chizzler]

Something that happened to Krug. Shoulder. Been saying it. Doesn’t hit like used too either. He still tries though. He also seems to like it here. Good teammate. Hopefully that shoulder will get better.

 

[BamBamCam]

Last 2 years, which coincide with no #37, have seen him drop down the list of top D-Men in the NHL. This year he is absolutely outside the top 15 and IMO in the 20's.

This is the first time in my lifetime that the Bruins do not have a potential Norris candidate on their blueline

 

[KillerMillerTime]

This is the first time in my lifetime that the Bruins do not have a potential Norris candidate on their blueline

With #73 play slipping, no #27 on D, #6 trying to figure his defensive game out and Swayman still not near his expected level of play, the Bruins are going to be prone to being shelled more frequently.

I will be surprised if they are in the hunt for one of the top 3 AD slots by mid February.
Toronto losing Matthews and Stolarz have degraded Toronto temporarily though.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Since McAvoy has been paired consistently with Zadorov, his play has improved. He also has been considerably more conservative in terms of rushing the puck and lingering in the offensive zone. A key step, I think, to being a better player.

Top 3 currently in plus/minus for the Bruins are Charlie (+10), Koepke (+9) and Zadorov (+7). No other defensemen are plus players. He's come a long way in that department.

Perhaps moving Charlie to the 2nd PP unit would help. Not sure what moving him off the power play altogether would do to his mindset. Maybe with less pressure on the 2nd unit he can relax and begin to improve.

 

[BMC]

McAvoy hasn't been the same since his shoulder surgery.

Yup I've been convinced of this for a long time now. Whether the shoulder still bothers him or if he just doesn't have confidence that it will hold up if he hits someone or if he gets hit in that area I can't say. It is clear he is not as aggressive as he was prior to the surgery. I miss those open ice mac truck hits he used to throw, those were frequently momentum changers. He had a decent shot too before the surgery.

Get him off the pp entirely and have him concentrate on PKing. It's also become clear that he doesn't have the vision/IQ to run a power play. IDK why they keep throwing him out there, it is an exercise in futility. I know, traditionally your #1D (who is usually your highest paid defenseman as well) has run the PP but he's clueless out there. Have him focus on his strengths because in his 8th season he is now who he is as a player.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I am with KillerMiller. He is around 15-20 in the league. He is sometimes much worse than that. His shoulder injuries have definitely affected his play, especially this last one. He never has had a great slapper and he may have lost a little off it. He does shoot against weak goalies and weak teams, which tells me it is about 50-50 as to whether it is a confidence issue or an effectiveness issue. Personally, I wish he would shoot more, but understand why he does not.
I think the big problem on the PP is not Mac, but the fact that they no longer have a net front guy to make the formation work and they don't have a bumper guy either. (Thanks for nothing Sweneely) They don't have any strong shots from the point either. Those who think Lorhei is a good solution are flat wrong. He just developed a slap shot and one timer in the past year. Combine that with his lousy d as the last man back and we are talking pp2 at best.

One other thing about Mac, I have always felt he would go home and be a Ranger or an Islander eventually. I feel that even more now. I doubt S weenie has considered it though.

Who could argue that.

Sweeney wouldn't have that kind of insight. Only you would.