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Player Discussion Charlie McAvoy IV

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Baddkarma said:
I keep waiting for McAvoy to look a little bit, I mean just a little, like the great 77 Ray Bourque.

CM73 is built like him in terms of thick (thanks Chia) and powerful, horse of a skater, but man 77 could finish and right now McAvoy can't find the cage. The good news is he is getting some great looks in close.

Do you guys think he will develop into a more consistent scoring threat?

Right now his growth is crazy
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I’m the biggest McAvoy backer there is, but Ray is one of the best to ever play the game. It would be really hard for chuck to get there and he has significant ground to make up already. I’ll settle for one of the best right now.
 
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Baddkarma said:
I keep waiting for McAvoy to look a little bit, I mean just a little, like the great 77 Ray Bourque.

CM73 is built like him in terms of thick (thanks Chia) and powerful, horse of a skater, but man 77 could finish and right now McAvoy can't find the cage. The good news is he is getting some great looks in close.

Do you guys think he will develop into a more consistent scoring threat?

Right now his growth is crazy
Click to expand...

McAvoy's offense value won't ever come with personal high goal totals. I think his shot selection and strength is good enough for 8-12 goals a year, but I wouldn't expect more than that.

McAvoy's offensive value comes with how quickly he can transition the puck, either with his legs or pass, and his elite vision.

He's already been one of the best 5v5 defensive dmen in the league for the past couple of years and he's doing it again. He's arguably the best two way dman in the league with how elite his defensive game is coupled with his above average point totals.
 
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My experience with Rangers fans this year is they love Trouba. He appears to me to be a liability at 5v5 against elite players and that's who they match him against $8m to get walked all game, cool
 
Dennis Bonvie said:
Certainly, McAvoy has a big edge in hits. And not just statistically, but as you stated, with a degree of ferocity. And Charlie has a slight edge in blocked shots.

But their takeaway/giveaway stats favor Makar heavily.

McAvoy 25/62

Makar 41/38
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GA/TA are such a crap stat since its so subjective and the person assigned to one stadium vs another can have wildly different thresholds. Hits are the same boat.
 
burstnbloom said:
I’m the biggest McAvoy backer there is, but Ray is one of the best to ever play the game. It would be really hard for chuck to get there and he has significant ground to make up already. I’ll settle for one of the best right now.
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So unreasonable to expect McAvoy to be one of the top 5-6 greatest
D-Men of all time. People should be very happy if he maintains top
5-7 D Man for next 6-8 years. There are already about 4-6 peers
who are in or will be in McAvoy's class. Obviously Makar, Fox and Heiskanen already are IMO and guys like Dahlin and Seider are capable of getting there aong with Chabot if Ottawa starts improving. T
 
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wintersej said:
GA/TA are such a crap stat since its so subjective and the person assigned to one stadium vs another can have wildly different thresholds. Hits are the same boat.
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Both guys play in the same league, don't they?

Even if the stat is not perfectly accurate, that kind of discrepancy tells me something.

To be fair to McAvoy, he's cut down big time on the giveaways in the 2nd half of the season. It's a big reason his plus/minus has skyrocketed. Even though I'd imagine you see that as a crap stat too.
 
KillerMillerTime said:
So unreasonable to expect McAvoy to be one of the top 5-6 greatest
D-Men of all time. People should be very happy if he maintains top
5-7 D Man for next 6-8 years. There are already about 4-6 peers
who are in or will be in McAvoy's class. Obviously Makar, Fox and Heiskanen already are IMO and guys like Dahlin and Seider are capable of getting there aong with Chabot if Ottawa starts improving. T
Click to expand...

How about Chychrun?

When he was available posters here had him as a top shelf dman.
 
KillerMillerTime said:
So unreasonable to expect McAvoy to be one of the top 5-6 greatest
D-Men of all time. People should be very happy if he maintains top
5-7 D Man for next 6-8 years. There are already about 4-6 peers
who are in or will be in McAvoy's class. Obviously Makar, Fox and Heiskanen already are IMO and guys like Dahlin and Seider are capable of getting there aong with Chabot if Ottawa starts improving. T
Click to expand...

Heiskanen isn't in the same class as the McAvoy's, Makar's, and Fox's. I'd put him in a tier below and probably behind guys like Dahlin and Seider.
 
PB37 said:
Heiskanen isn't in the same class as the McAvoy's, Makar's, and Fox's. I'd put him in a tier below and probably behind guys like Dahlin and Seider.
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He is IMO and his run with the Stars to the Cup Final showed it.
Put up a PPG in that run. McAvoy is under .5PPG thru his career
and Heiskanen is .75PPG.

McAvoy has had the benefit of playing with the games greatest two way center in modern times. Switch McAvoy and Heiskanen
and you would see basically same level play. Heiskanen is also
19 months younger than McAvoy, he is still 22, while McAvoy is 24.
 
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KillerMillerTime said:
He is IMO and his run with the Stars to the Cup Final showed it.
Put up a PPG in that run. McAvoy is under .5PPG thru his career
and Heiskanen is .75PPG.

McAvoy has had the benefit of playing with the games greatest two way center in modern times. Switch McAvoy and Heiskanen
and you would see basically same level play. Heiskanen is also
19 months younger than McAvoy, he is still 22, while McAvoy is 24.
Click to expand...

Heiskanen had a hell of a playoff run, but his next 100+ games, he has not come close to playing at that level. It makes me think that run was more of a fluke than what to expect moving forward but he is still young.

I think both D are in the relative same ballpark offensively ( McAvoy jumped ahead of him offensively this year ) but the biggest separation between the two is defensively. Whether it's advanced stats or traditional ones, or even using the eye test, McAvoy is the superior defender and it's not even that close.
 
KillerMillerTime said:
That's interesting, so do you have an article citing specific discrepancies?
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www.coppernblue.com

RTSS stats: Giveaways, Takeaways, and Throwaways

What do RTSS stats, specifically Giveaways and Takeaways, tell us about NHL players and statisticians?
www.coppernblue.com www.coppernblue.com

Particularly striking when looking at the these numbers on a league-wide basis is the enormous discrepancy in home/road splits. The scorers are not necessarily more "generous" with the home town team, but they are far more likely to notice them and attribute actions on the ice to them, be they positive or negative. League-wide in 2009-10, home teams have been credited with over 37% (!) more takeaways than visitors, and debited with nearly 42% (!!) more giveaways.

Moreover, some rinks simply count way more total events than others. The number of total events (Gv + Tk) for the home team ranges from a modest 281 in Phoenix to 1098 on Long Island, very nearly a factor of 4! On the road the range, as one might expect, is a much more constrained 390 to 552. This supports the theory of many, myself included, that RTSS road stats are much more valuable than full-season totals. They're a long way from perfect: some teams play three road games on the Island, others none (including the Islanders!), but discrepancies are far more likely to balance out.

The Islanders lead the entire NHL with 857 takeaways, a cool 500 ahead of the Stanley Cup champions from Pittsburgh who rank a rank 29th in this "important" defensive category. 99% of their advantage comes in the oh-so-friendly confines, where the Isles have recorded 624 of those takeaways, nearly 5 times as many as the Penguins' 129 on home ice; on the road, the Islanders' edge is an inconsequential 233-228.
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PB37 said:
Heiskanen had a hell of a playoff run, but his next 100+ games, he has not come close to playing at that level. It makes me think that run was more of a fluke than what to expect moving forward but he is still young.

I think both D are in the relative same ballpark offensively ( McAvoy jumped ahead of him offensively this year ) but the biggest separation between the two is defensively. Whether it's advanced stats or traditional ones, or even using the eye test, McAvoy is the superior defender and it's not even that close.
Click to expand...
Again McAvoy plays with Bergeron, a superior defensive center to Tyler Seguin or Joe Pavelski. That's an enormous advantage for McAvoy and I am positive explains a substantial part of the defensive statistical difference along with Heiskanen being a year and a half younger. There is very little between these players, some have a bit better offense and some a bit better defense.
 
wintersej said:
GA/TA are such a crap stat since its so subjective and the person assigned to one stadium vs another can have wildly different thresholds. Hits are the same boat.
Click to expand...

MSG use to be notoriously easy to pick up hit counts. I thought maybe it was my own bias but when other fans and ex players in podcasts also talk about it, you know something is up.
 
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