Player Discussion Charlie McAvoy IV

[burstnbloom]

Come PO when it is BTTW hockey as opposed to the RS, Hedman has a capacity to tilt the ice due to his size\reach combined with his high skill.

Seems clear to me a healthy Hedman chooses not to play at the same level of effort in the RS as McAvoy does, so he has more room to impact the game in the PO, compared to the RS. That reality doesn't get reflected in your analytics and IMO accounts for what you are saying and what others who disagree with you are saying. For proof look at what happened when a concussed Hedman attempted to play the first 2 games against Columbus in '19, TB
was broomed.

the last three years in the playoffs, Charlie played harder competition and had better possession numbers across the board. Hedman has had some better actual goals luck that his underlying numbers make seem like good fortune more than anything.


Victor Hedman Charlie McAvoy
T.B Team BOS
D Position D
48 GP 24
921.9 TOI 469.6
938 CF 536
818 CA 462
53.42 CF% 53.71
680 FF 406
584 FA 328
53.80 FF% 55.31
499 SF 283
434 SA 232
53.48 SF% 54.95
40 GF 19
24 GA 18
62.50 GF% 51.35
38.11 xGF 23.56
33.85 xGA 18.06
52.96 xGF% 56.61
447 SCF 265
395 SCA 225
53.09 SCF% 54.08
179 HDCF 94
151 HDCA 74
54.24 HDCF% 55.95
22 HDGF 9
17 HDGA 9
56.41 HDGF% 50.00
268 MDCF 171
244 MDCA 151
52.34 MDCF% 53.11
8 MDGF 6
3 MDGA 7
72.73 MDGF% 46.15
425 LDCF 241
361 LDCA 201
54.07 LDCF% 54.52
10 LDGF 4
4 LDGA 2
71.43 LDGF% 66.67
8.02 On-Ice SH% 6.71
94.47 On-Ice SV% 92.24
1.025 PDO 0.990
156 Off. Zone Starts 93
145 Neu. Zone Starts 76
85 Def. Zone Starts 61
746 On The Fly Starts 354
64.73 Off. Zone Start % 60.39
370 Off. Zone Faceoffs 197
245 Neu. Zone Faceoffs 125
251 Def. Zone Faceoffs 141
59.58 Off. Zone Faceoff % 58.28

 

[KillerMillerTime]

the last three years in the playoffs, Charlie played harder competition and had better possession numbers across the board. Hedman has had some better actual goals luck that his underlying numbers make seem like good fortune more than anything.


Victor Hedman Charlie McAvoy
T.B Team BOS
D Position D
48 GP 24
921.9 TOI 469.6
938 CF 536
818 CA 462
53.42 CF% 53.71
680 FF 406
584 FA 328
53.80 FF% 55.31
499 SF 283
434 SA 232
53.48 SF% 54.95
40 GF 19
24 GA 18
62.50 GF% 51.35
38.11 xGF 23.56
33.85 xGA 18.06
52.96 xGF% 56.61
447 SCF 265
395 SCA 225
53.09 SCF% 54.08
179 HDCF 94
151 HDCA 74
54.24 HDCF% 55.95
22 HDGF 9
17 HDGA 9
56.41 HDGF% 50.00
268 MDCF 171
244 MDCA 151
52.34 MDCF% 53.11
8 MDGF 6
3 MDGA 7
72.73 MDGF% 46.15
425 LDCF 241
361 LDCA 201
54.07 LDCF% 54.52
10 LDGF 4
4 LDGA 2
71.43 LDGF% 66.67
8.02 On-Ice SH% 6.71
94.47 On-Ice SV% 92.24
1.025 PDO 0.990
156 Off. Zone Starts 93
145 Neu. Zone Starts 76
85 Def. Zone Starts 61
746 On The Fly Starts 354
64.73 Off. Zone Start % 60.39
370 Off. Zone Faceoffs 197
245 Neu. Zone Faceoffs 125
251 Def. Zone Faceoffs 141
59.58 Off. Zone Faceoff % 58.28

Hedman has been concussed and injured 2 out of those 3 years, that's a fact you can't account for.

 

[burstnbloom]

Hedman has been concussed and injured 2 out of those 3 years, that's a fact you can't account for.

ok, you can keep moving thr goalposts but there is no statistical argument that Hedman is better than Charlie, playoffs or otherwise, other than counting stats and reputation.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

ok, you can keep moving thr goalposts but there is no statistical argument that Hedman is better than Charlie, playoffs or otherwise, other than counting stats and reputation.

Last three seasons takeaways/giveaways:

Hedman 85/97

McAvoy 67/148

 

[burstnbloom]

Last three seasons takeaways/giveaways:

Hedman 85/97

McAvoy 67/148

Are those not counting stats?

 

[Dr Hook]

Have we settled it yet? Whether McAvoy or Hedman is the better player?

 

[The National]

Have we settled it yet? Whether McAvoy or Herman is the better player?

 

[PB37]

Both he and Grz have been really good overall since the turn of the year. They're becoming an eye popping, difference making pair that's among the best in the league.

 

[Lobster57]

Are those not counting stats?

all stats are counting stats at their core

 

[Bruinswillwin77]

I don't understand the debate between Hedman/McAvoy when Charlie was 12 years old when Hedman played 74 games with the Lightning... Give it 5 years and then continue.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

ok, you can keep moving thr goalposts but there is no statistical argument that Hedman is better than Charlie, playoffs or otherwise, other than counting stats and reputation.

That's not moving GP at all. I referenced his concussion from yr 1, so injuries always have to be factored in.

I can guarantee you, if you could switch laundry for just 2021-22 and 2022-23 seasons with them, you wouldn't get majority on this board to agree with you.

That isn't a knock on McAvoy at all, but shows what fully healthy and engaged Hedman is capable of.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Have we settled it yet? Whether McAvoy or Hedman is the better player?

I don't understand the debate between Hedman/McAvoy when Charlie was 12 years old when Hedman played 74 games with the Lightning... Give it 5 years and then continue.

For Bergeron's window the discussion is would Boston be closer to a Cup with Hedman or McAvoy.
That is this year and next. Its not literally trading
for good.

 

[Bruinswillwin77]

For Bergeron's window the discussion is would Boston be closer to a Cup with Hedman or McAvoy.
That is this year and next. Its not literally trading
for good.

That would be horrible asset management.

 

[Bruinswillwin77]

Remember when the Bruins won the Cup with rookie Brad Marchand?

 

[The National]

Chuck is the best 5v5 defenseman in the league.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Chuck is the best 5v5 defenseman in the league.

Hedman is the best D man in hockey followed by Makar and Fox.
McAvoy is in a group with Heiskanen and AP after that.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Pasta unsigned past next year - and who likes to resign in Edmonton? - make Pasta a less valuable chip for Edm in this fantasy scenario

Until Pasta realizes he can score 60 a year riding shotgun with McDavid.

 

[Sevendust]

Until Pasta realizes he can score 60 a year riding shotgun with McDavid.

Does this equals playoff success? Draisaitl and McDavid are top 5 players in this league but I doubt that they will accomplish anything in the playoffs with the Oilers.

 

[The National]

Hedman is the best D man in hockey followed by Makar and Fox.
McAvoy is in a group with Heiskanen and AP after that.

Yes I know your opinion on this.

 

[Bearcrap]

Hedman is the best D man in hockey followed by Makar and Fox.
McAvoy is in a group with Heiskanen and AP after that.

Did you watch Josi when they played the Bruins ? He's way better than McAvoy right now too.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Did you watch Josi when they played the Bruins ? He's way better than McAvoy right now too.

Actually I had Josi in that group in a post a couple of days ago.

 

[Dr Hook]

Hedman is the best D man in hockey followed by Makar and Fox.
McAvoy is in a group with Heiskanen and AP after that.

McAvoy is a far better defender than either Makar or Fox and is in the conversation with Hedman on that score. I don't think he is Hedman level yet, but he isn't far off and is definitely one of the best in the league when considering all-around abilities.

 

[22Brad Park]

McAvoy is a far better defender than either Makar or Fox and is in the conversation with Hedman on that score. I don't think he is Hedman level yet, but he isn't far off and is definitely one of the best in the league when considering all-around abilities.

Fox to me is not as good as McAvoy.The Norris is about points not overall defence.Winning the Norris though sure is gas for an argument

 

[Dr Hook]

Fox to me is not as good as McAvoy.The Norris is about points not overall defence.Winning the Norris though sure is gas for an argument

Agreed 100%. Not saying I wouldn't love to have Adam Fox on the Bruins, but he is different sort of player than McAvoy. It depends what you need on your blueline, but for me I'd take McAvoy all day every day because of the complete game. I could see Fox being preferred if you needed offense back there.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

McAvoy is a far better defender than either Makar or Fox and is in the conversation with Hedman on that score. I don't think he is Hedman level yet, but he isn't far off and is definitely one of the best in the league when considering all-around abilities.

Not so far this season.