Confirmed Trade: [CGY/OTT] Curtis Lazar and Mike Kostka for Jyrki Jokipakka and a 2nd

[DuckedUpOnQuack]

At what point will Sens fans stop labelling and blaming Lazar and throw some of that at the coaches and management for the way he was handled? Putting an 18 year old in the lineup on the 4th line makes no sense. Screams at me that the Sens had no clue what they had in Lazar. He should've been sent back to junior to develop. Fine by me, I love the move for the Flames.

That's a point constantly made by Sens fans regarding Lazar. Most people feel he was rushed and he should have been sent back to Juniors and spent time in the AHL.

 

[SAK11]

At what point will Sens fans stop labelling and blaming Lazar and throw some of that at the coaches and management for the way he was handled? Putting an 18 year old in the lineup on the 4th line makes no sense. Screams at me that the Sens had no clue what they had in Lazar. He should've been sent back to junior to develop. Fine by me, I love the move for the Flames.

I believe he was talking about Chiasson.

 

[DJJones]

Who'd have thought this trade would get people so worked up haha.

Treliving is a smart guy. He compared the chances of Lazar becoming a NHLer against a 2nd rounder in a weak draft year. He obviously liked his chances of Lazar better.

Removing three years of development is an added bonus since we are weak on the RW. Fact that we had room to protect him make's it an easier choice.

 

[tony d]

I wish Lazar the best in Calgary but good to see us get some value back for him.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Who'd have thought this trade would get people so worked up haha.

Treliving is a smart guy. He compared the chances of Lazar becoming a NHLer against a 2nd rounder in a weak draft year. He obviously liked his chances of Lazar better.

Removing three years of development is an added bonus since we are weak on the RW. Fact that we had room to protect him make's it an easier choice.

I think draft picks are highly overrated. Even a late 1st rounder is unlikely to become an impact player. A mid 2nd rounder certainly could become a big name player, but in a weak draft you are more likely to get a role player/fringe NHLer or worse.

For what it's worth, I still think Lazar could end up a Brandon Sutter type player. Good speed, good release, great compete level.

I think that it was a fine trade for Calgary in a vacuum. On the whole, they essentially traded Russell for Lazar, which I don't think is great value for Russell, but that's in the past.

Hopefully Lazar can find a spot in Calgary. Can't be worse than Chiasson or Bouma.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

On the whole, they essentially traded Russell for Lazar, which I don't think is great value for Russell, but that's in the past.

The Flames also drafted Dillon Dube with a Russell pick. I am content with Dube+Lazar for Russell+2nd.

 

[jason2020]

At what point will Sens fans stop labelling and blaming Lazar and throw some of that at the coaches and management for the way he was handled? Putting an 18 year old in the lineup on the 4th line makes no sense. Screams at me that the Sens had no clue what they had in Lazar. He should've been sent back to junior to develop. Fine by me, I love the move for the Flames.

What Ottawa did was wrong but what Calgary seems to be expecting is also wrong if they really expecting him to score 20-30 its not going to happen.

 

[Figgy44]

What Ottawa did was wrong but what Calgary seems to be expecting is also wrong if they really expecting him to score 20-30 its not going to happen.

I think you're misunderstanding. I think most Flames fans are ok with the odds Lazar becomes a decent bottom 6 roster player for us vs the 2nd round pick. What some Flames fans are also saying, is that it's also reasonable to say that Lazar has a long shot 20-30 scoring upside as well. Usually, you wouldn't think players of Lazar's ilk in the second round, newly drafted, would be able to reach something like that.

The odds of finding a raw player (irregardless of age at the moment due to reclamation project) capable of scoring 20-30 in this draft with a 2nd round pick vs Lazar figuring out how to score 20-30... I think I'd bet on Lazar over the pick. Even if he can't get the offense going, he still has other skills we like.

I think in general, most Flames fans would take the pick over other reclamation projects. However, Lazar's game away from the puck as of now is something we see that we like. If we can add to that base and continue to develop him, I think he's a fine add to our organization. If Lazar figures things out, him on a line with Bennett... .

 

[Skobel24]

The Flames also drafted Dillon Dube with a Russell pick. I am content with Dube+Lazar for Russell+2nd.

The Russell 2nd got us Parsons. Dube was from the Hudler trade.

 

[SpezDispenser]

At what point will Sens fans stop labelling and blaming Lazar and throw some of that at the coaches and management for the way he was handled? Putting an 18 year old in the lineup on the 4th line makes no sense. Screams at me that the Sens had no clue what they had in Lazar. He should've been sent back to junior to develop. Fine by me, I love the move for the Flames.

That was Chiasson I was talking about. He sucked...like a vacuum.

 

[Figgy44]

That was Chiasson I was talking about. He sucked...like a vacuum.

There's probably a Hoover or Dyson ball joke somewhere in here.

 

[jason2020]

I think you're misunderstanding. I think most Flames fans are ok with the odds Lazar becomes a decent bottom 6 roster player for us vs the 2nd round pick. What some Flames fans are also saying, is that it's also reasonable to say that Lazar has a long shot 20-30 scoring upside as well. Usually, you wouldn't think players of Lazar's ilk in the second round, newly drafted, would be able to reach something like that.

The odds of finding a raw player (irregardless of age at the moment due to reclamation project) capable of scoring 20-30 in this draft with a 2nd round pick vs Lazar figuring out how to score 20-30... I think I'd bet on Lazar over the pick. Even if he can't get the offense going, he still has other skills we like.

I think in general, most Flames fans would take the pick over other reclamation projects. However, Lazar's game away from the puck as of now is something we see that we like. If we can add to that base and continue to develop him, I think he's a fine add to our organization. If Lazar figures things out, him on a line with Bennett... .

Maybe most fans think that way but there have been some make comments such as its a great move he will no question increase scoring etc.

 

[DJJones]

Maybe most fans think that way but there have been some make comments such as its a great move he will no question increase scoring etc.

I'm happy, I think Dillon Dube is a great 2nd round pick that has just increased his value since the draft. So right now, he has more value than our 2017 2nd round pick to me easily. Known quantity and all.

Saying that I would have been happy to trade Dube for Lazar. The odds of regaining your scoring touch seem way higher than someone successfully jumping up two league and succeeding.

 

[Blitzago*]

I'm happy, I think Dillon Dube is a great 2nd round pick that has just increased his value since the draft. So right now, he has more value than our 2017 2nd round pick to me easily. Known quantity and all.

Saying that I would have been happy to trade Dube for Lazar. The odds of regaining your scoring touch seem way higher than someone successfully jumping up two league and succeeding.

Are you implying that Lazar has had a "scoring" touch at the NHL level?

With that being said, it's not a bad trade for the flames.

And it keeps my oilers from trying to go after more Oil Kings, so a win win.

 

[Xspyrit]

At what point will Sens fans stop labelling and blaming Lazar and throw some of that at the coaches and management for the way he was handled? Putting an 18 year old in the lineup on the 4th line makes no sense. Screams at me that the Sens had no clue what they had in Lazar. He should've been sent back to junior to develop. Fine by me, I love the move for the Flames.

Screams to me as a very amateurish opinion...You can't turn poop into gold, no matter how hard you try.

I'm not saying Lazar is poop, I'm just saying that he just isn't that good at that level of hockey. He should make an ok career as a 3rd/4th liner which is more than many who were NHL prospects at some point can say. Look at that 2013 draft, what did people expect of Lazar at 17th? Classic case of HF overhyping

Many Sens fans are saying the exact same baseless stuff as you are, but it is not very realistic. You are saying putting an 18 year old in the lineup on the 4th line makes no sense. Why? If the guy is physically ready and has a mature enough game (which Lazar did), then why not? I don't know if you ever played competitive hockey, but it's playing against the best and practicing with the best that you become better. If Lazar stayed in junior dominating weaker and younger junior players, it doesn't mean that he would have developed better hands, better hockey sense and vision, which is what he is lacking to be more than a bottom-6 forward.

That was Chiasson I was talking about. He sucked...like a vacuum.

He sucked relatively to unrealistic expectations by Sens fans, but Chiasson did not suck as a bottom-6 player, at least not in his first season. He fall out of flavor in the 2nd half of his 2nd season but this is a gross hyperbole as per usual HF stuff.

 

[SpezDispenser]

He sucked relatively to unrealistic expectations by Sens fans, but Chiasson did not suck as a bottom-6 player, at least not in his first season. He fall out of flavor in the 2nd half of his 2nd season but this is a gross hyperbole as per usual HF stuff.

Yeah...expectations that he'd be good. For a third line guy, he didn't have the speed or the on ice IQ to keep up with plays, he was weak offensively, got knocked off the puck a fair bit for a bigger guy. Didn't like anything about him.

Now that the Sens have jettisoned a couple of the stale pieces in their bottom six and replaced them with Stalberg, Wingels (who I'm not a huge fan of, admittedly), and Dzingel (who got pushed down because of the Burrows trade), we see a better third line and maybe equally as important a fast, heavy on the forecheck 4th line. The way it was always meant to be in the Murray-era, but never came to fruition.

Chiasson was someone who was never gonna prosper here, especially not with the up-tempo system Boucher employs. So, while I wish him well, I don't miss him in the least.

 

[LUV Carti*]

Yeah...expectations that he'd be good. For a third line guy, he didn't have the speed or the on ice IQ to keep up with plays, he was weak offensively, got knocked off the puck a fair bit for a bigger guy. Didn't like anything about him.

Now that the Sens have jettisoned a couple of the stale pieces in their bottom six and replaced them with Stalberg, Wingels (who I'm not a huge fan of, admittedly), and Dzingel (who got pushed down because of the Burrows trade), we see a better third line and maybe equally as important a fast, heavy on the forecheck 4th line. The way it was always meant to be in the Murray-era, but never came to fruition.

Chiasson was someone who was never gonna prosper here, especially not with the up-tempo system Boucher employs. So, while I wish him well, I don't miss him in the least.

He didn't have the speed? And Mark Stone does?

 

[KevinRedkey]

He didn't have the speed? And Mark Stone does?

Mark Stone is "elite" when it comes to hockey sense. He wouldn't be an NHLer if he didn't have that.

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

Greatest name in hockey today. Love Finnish names

My first love had the last name Lazar, so that'll always make him stand out for me : )

 

[jason2020]

Kritty

One of the coaches that maybe should get some of the blame is Cameron when he was the head coach some did question how he did handle Lazar be it playing time and what line he should be on.

 

[93LEAFS]

I think draft picks are highly overrated. Even a late 1st rounder is unlikely to become an impact player. A mid 2nd rounder certainly could become a big name player, but in a weak draft you are more likely to get a role player/fringe NHLer or worse.

For what it's worth, I still think Lazar could end up a Brandon Sutter type player. Good speed, good release, great compete level.

I think that it was a fine trade for Calgary in a vacuum. On the whole, they essentially traded Russell for Lazar, which I don't think is great value for Russell, but that's in the past.

Hopefully Lazar can find a spot in Calgary. Can't be worse than Chiasson or Bouma.

Draft picks past the top 10 don't really change by draft. They basically give you the same odds of returning a good player regardless of the perception of the class. The only extreme outlier for this is 2003. It's just a question of how the stars are distributed. Sometimes they are taken at 11 (Kopitar) other times in the middle (Gaudreau) or the late rounds (Datsyuk). Subtract the top 10 from almost any class, and I'm quite sure drafts would look quite equal.

 

[Stuzchuk]

Draft picks past the top 10 don't really change by draft. They basically give you the same odds of returning a good player regardless of the perception of the class. The only extreme outlier for this is 2003. It's just a question of how the stars are distributed. Sometimes they are taken at 11 (Kopitar) other times in the middle (Gaudreau) or the late rounds (Datsyuk). Subtract the top 10 from almost any class, and I'm quite sure drafts would look quite equal.

FINALLY!!! a user on HFB who understands!!!!!!!!

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

Meh, if Lazar becomes a Chris Kelly or something I'll be happy with it. Don't see the issue. Played his juniors around here, is good defensively. Just needs real development time.

 

[Xspyrit]

Yeah...expectations that he'd be good. For a third line guy, he didn't have the speed or the on ice IQ to keep up with plays, he was weak offensively, got knocked off the puck a fair bit for a bigger guy. Didn't like anything about him.

...

Chiasson was someone who was never gonna prosper here, especially not with the up-tempo system Boucher employs. So, while I wish him well, I don't miss him in the least.

Chiasson has a career pace of 27 pts per 82 games. It's nothing spectacular but it's easily 3rd line numbers in today's NHL. He has a TOI average of 13:56, which is also 3rd line numbers. His possession numbers have been decent/good except last year with the Sens. It's not a good idea to base your judgment on a player because of 1 season. Chiasson was fine in his first year in Ottawa but things went south in the 2nd year. I know his cousin and I talked with him, he told me that he had a lot of problems with the coach Cameron. So it's not surprising to see a youngish player struggle when he doesn't get along with the coaching staff. He is rebounding decently well this year with the Flames.

He is not speedy but he is not slow as well. He is the definition of an average skater. Remember the skills competition? He was actually faster than most thought, a bit ike Greening was but not as much.

If he was more like you were hoping him to be, he'd be more than a bottom-6 player. It's ok if you didn't like him, he's a depth player in the NHL, of course those guys rarely have "fans", people are fans of spectacular players like Karlsson instead.

I didn't have any problem with the Sens letting him go to have a chance somewhere else. I was not a fan or not fan, pretty neutral. He's a good guy though and I am happy for him if he can get a NHL paycheck.

Meh, if Lazar becomes a Chris Kelly or something I'll be happy with it. Don't see the issue. Played his juniors around here, is good defensively. Just needs real development time.

Personally I doubt it. Kelly was damn good in his prime. When I think of Lazar, I think more of Brad Richardson or that kind of player. Bottom-6 energy guy who can chip in offensively at times. Chris Kelly was a shutdown 3rd line center and an expert on the PK. He had several 30 pts + seasons. Not sure Lazar will score as much consistently.

 

[King In The North]

Which one is toes?

I'm picking toes every time.

Toes is a top 100 player of all time.