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Celtics/NBA Celtics trade Grant Williams for draft picks as part of three-team deal

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Brogdon said after the game that this team simply didn't have the defensive identity like it did last year. So to me that boils down to the head coach. So either Mazzulla is out or you need to bring in a top assistant coach who can resurrect that defensive identity.

Is there anyone that can resurrect Robert Williams? It's almost like he's aged significantly overnight.
 
Maine Fan said:
How about we agree with Brown and RW III and if necessary Smart as a compromise? They should get us a couple of players.
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Maybe, I just think Browns ceiling is too high and he has that killer instinct. I could see him developing into a Jimmy Butler light. I would only trade him as a last resort. Smarts ego to talent ratio is just too big imo

N o o d l e s said:
Ok so you are prepared to give Brown like $250m?
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Yup
 
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DKH said:
They won’t - I was kidding

But yeh I do like John Collins

I would not super max Brown / would you ?
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No , I think he is an overrated player. I think he is legitimately a top 30 player in the league, but I really don't believe he is a top 10 guy. A top 10 guy could go anywhere and raise that team, and honestly I think someone else is going to be very disappointed if they bring Jalen into their team.

He is a talented scorer, but not a great shooter, and not a natural playmaker, plus has limitations with his handle, and his defense is in decline.

N o o d l e s said:
Ok so you are prepared to give Brown like $250m?
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Honestly no, and supermax is 295. Brown also seems like the type of guy who will take it personally as a sign of disrespect if you don't offer him the full supermax. He feels like he took the discount last time, and wont again
 
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DangleCity said:
He needs to develope the ability to play at least 30 Mins a night and 65+ games a season
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That seems like a highly unlikely scenario. He does feel more lie 32 than 25. Maybe he will completely change his lifestyle this offseason, and adapt the Tom Brady lifestyle, but that seems highly unlikely
 
As I stated previously, I'd have no problem trading Brown for a shorter title-window, but after reading some bulletin stuff, most of these trade-scenarios are outrageous. JB for Siakam? It doesn't move the needle, he's a little worse and older. For Trae? As if a team wins a title with Trae Young chucking up shits and playing no D. For Beal? Tatum would love it, but no team is gonna win anything with Beal as your #2 guy. Ingram? What exactly has he done so far. Same goes for Mitchell.

I could maybe get talked into Dame. Durant would be a yes.

The most realistic case is probably extending JB (for a little less than the Supermax) and see how next season goes. And if not, after one year, he can be traded. Some other opportunity may come along (Kawhi for example).


And for the record: The player I am most disappointed with is Brogdon. This has nothing to do with the Heat-series in which he was clearly injured. But why does a guy declared as smart and analytical as Brogdon is supposed to be, not take himself out and accept that he doesn't help the team playing injured? I think the Heat started to get going when Brogdon entered the game. But again, it's not solely based on this series. Despite being 6th man of the year, I don't think he gave the Celtics a new dimension. Not filled a void they were lacking prior. He made them worse defensively.
 
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my laker hot take co workers are having a field day. they asked if i'd trade jaylen for anthony davis, without hesitation I said no
 
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And of course the other factor is you have to resign Tatum next year. So what impact does signing/not signing Brown have on Tatum.
 
So after watching that shit-tastic display last night and digesting it over the course of the night, I want to see if anyone else had the same thought I did. As soon as Tatum rolled his ankle to start the game, I knew it was over. I assumed he would use that "injury" as his built in excuse if they came up short, which they absolutely did. I also watched Brown turn over the ball time after time again, and fully believe they wanted out. They wanted this to end and they didn't care enough to dig deep. They got their moral victory by forcing a game 7, even though it was pure luck, so last night was a foregone conclusion. This is why this core is so disliked.
 
As bad as it was to watch him play I don't think they are going to trade Brown. Smart very likely though and I'm on board: this team needs to upgrade PG urgently.
 
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Smart’s decision making frustrates me even more than Brown.

Brown turns the ball over because he can’t dribble. Smart turns the ball over because he makes brain dead decision after brain dead decision. Did Smart try to throw an alley-oop to Brown from practically half court last night? Did I hallucinate that play?
 
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PatriceBergeron said:
Smart’s decision making frustrates me even more than Brown.

Brown turns the ball over because he can’t dribble. Smart turns the ball over because he makes brain dead decision after brain dead decision. Did Smart try to throw an alley-oop to Brown from practically half court last night? Did I hallucinate that play?
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I think he tried.

Smart showed up way more than Brown. Jaylen had to step up for an injured Tatum and he couldn't do it. He couldn't even dribble. They were picking him off so easily. He was lazy and careless with the ball. Didn't drive to the net much. Had no 3. He looked outmatched. Again.


Caleb Martin did more than Brown. But Brown is the 2nd team All NBA. It's fascinating.
 
I didn't realize the new cba starts July 1st. It doesn't help the Celtics at all, it's actually awful for the team long term, the Celtics will likely be one of the first victims of owners being mad than the Warriors were willing to pay huge luxury tax bills to make their roster as good as possible and compete for Championships. Don't know why the pa agreed to it. The star players will be fine but it feels like the role players are going to get hit hard by owners of teams who now have a good excuse to avoid paying the tax. The second tax apron is almost a hard cap.

The Celtics right now are 9% away from the second tax apron for next season, if Jaylen gets the supermax they will be 12% away from it with only 7 guys on the roster in two seasons and when Tatum gets his supermax they will be 30% away from the second tax apron with just 4 guys signed.


Here are some of the things teams in the second tax apron can't do thanks to the new cba.

  1. Their draft pick seven years into the future becomes untradable and locked to the team for at least four years, with the possibility of the team never being able to trade it and it being downgraded to the bottom of the first round if they stay above the second apron for multiple years
  2. The team will not be able to use any Mid-level Exception
  3. The team will not be able to combine multiple outgoing players to match the salary of an incoming player via trade, and in 1-for-1 trades the incoming player must have a salary equal or lower than the outgoing one
  4. The team cannot acquire anyone via an outgoing sign-and-trade, and will not receive a TPE by trading them into cap space, adding to the existing restriction on being able to bring anyone in via sign-and-trade
  5. The team cannot acquire anyone in-season who was waived from a contract that paid them more than the Mid-level Exception (the “buy out market”)
  6. At the end of the season, all Trade Exceptions held by the team will expire

There's also things like not being able to send cash in trades and the luxury tax repeater penalties becoming tougher on teams starting in 2025.


Dangercat suggested if the cba makes the Celtics decide to move Brown because Tatum and Brown with worse depth every year isn't the way to build the roster, the Spurs could be a potential trade partner. Something like Devin Vassell, Keldon Johnson + picks for Brown and Brogdon. He also says they probably have to consider moving one of Brogdon, White or Smart now as well as not re-signing Grant Williams because what was a strength with roster building on the old cba with the guards contracts has now become a negative.
 
DangleCity said:
Maybe, I just think Browns ceiling is too high and he has that killer instinct. I could see him developing into a Jimmy Butler light. I would only trade him as a last resort. Smarts ego to talent ratio is just too big imo


Yup
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WOW, you have a very high regard for Jaylen Brown. Did you watch game 7. He was a total screw-up.
 
Maine Fan said:
WOW, you have a very high regard for Jaylen Brown. Did you watch game 7. He was a total screw-up.
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Jaylen was trash last game 7 too.

He may be intelligent, but his basketball IQ is not great. No drive. Constantly losing the basketball. He wants to be "the" guy. But when the opportunity is there? He goes ghost. Just embarrassing.

But hey, he's 2nd team All NBA!!!
 
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