CCHL 2016/2017 Season

TheLastShift

Canada
Nov 14, 2007
806
0
This issue appears to be solved by the management of the CPC. They have decided to send this player to CCHL2 in Arnprior. #Development?, #investing in CPC Future?, investing in players future? #Teaching, #Just bring in better players

He is 16-years old. Carleton Place is one of (if not) the top team in Eastern Canada. They sent him down to a team at the Tier 2 level where he will play top 4 minutes against players older then him on one of the top teams in that league. He will practice with CP, he will practice with Arnprior, he will play 2-3 games per week (Plenty of ice)

I am sure this player could probably play full-time for about 10 of the other teams in the CCHL, but he plays for the three-time defending champions, instead of losing him altogether, CP loans him to an organization they partner with, a team they have 2 of their Affiliate defensemen already, one also being an OHL draft pick and the same age. They can now affiliate him for 10 games and if there is an opening due to injuries then he will get his chance. End of the day, he is 16-years old, I've witnessed handfuls of players join Junior at 17... even 18 and still get Division 1 scholarships. There is no rush. For you to question the decisions by this team just shows your complete lack of knowledge of Junior Hockey.
 

Easternfan

Registered User
Mar 15, 2016
355
0
He is 16-years old. Carleton Place is one of (if not) the top team in Eastern Canada. They sent him down to a team at the Tier 2 level where he will play top 4 minutes against players older then him on one of the top teams in that league. He will practice with CP, he will practice with Arnprior, he will play 2-3 games per week (Plenty of ice)

I am sure this player could probably play full-time for about 10 of the other teams in the CCHL, but he plays for the three-time defending champions, instead of losing him altogether, CP loans him to an organization they partner with, a team they have 2 of their Affiliate defensemen already, one also being an OHL draft pick and the same age. They can now affiliate him for 10 games and if there is an opening due to injuries then he will get his chance. End of the day, he is 16-years old, I've witnessed handfuls of players join Junior at 17... even 18 and still get Division 1 scholarships. There is no rush. For you to question the decisions by this team just shows your complete lack of knowledge of Junior Hockey.

Perfect example of being sent down to CCHL(formerly Jr.B) is a few years ago from Carleton Place, Owen Grant. He is committed to Vermont, a D1 school, so looks like this move a few years ago didn't hinder him.
 

BeenThere

Registered User
Oct 24, 2015
122
0
Perfect example of being sent down to CCHL(formerly Jr.B) is a few years ago from Carleton Place, Owen Grant. He is committed to Vermont, a D1 school, so looks like this move a few years ago didn't hinder him.

Grant committed in the fall of 2014 and was sent down early in 2015 just prior to the playoffs, meaning he made the team as a 16, got his commit and then got sent down late in the season....because that was better for his development? Was subsequently recalled when the rosters expended and practised with CP until their season ended. CP likely had to pay for a 16 year old Jr B card to make that happen but they probably don't have to do that in the new CCHL/CCHL2 arrangement.

For the player and family....they work extremely hard to be ready for the prospect/ evaluation camp(s), make it to main camp, get signed, pay in excess of $5000 for this "opportunity" and 6 weeks later face being sent to Jr B? I get the business of Junior hockey but in the new U18/CCHL/CCHL2 model that HEO players are now subject to.....where is the league(s) to protect the interest and more importantly the development of its young talent.

Until you have your kid go through this, I would humbly suggest you temper your enthusiasm for the "development opportunity" that getting sent down means for a 16 year old.
 

BeenThere

Registered User
Oct 24, 2015
122
0
And hopefully the family received a refund for the difference in player fees between the CCHL and CCHL2..........
 

Easternfan

Registered User
Mar 15, 2016
355
0
Grant committed in the fall of 2014 and was sent down early in 2015 just prior to the playoffs, meaning he made the team as a 16, got his commit and then got sent down late in the season....because that was better for his development? Was subsequently recalled when the rosters expended and practised with CP until their season ended. CP likely had to pay for a 16 year old Jr B card to make that happen but they probably don't have to do that in the new CCHL/CCHL2 arrangement.

For the player and family....they work extremely hard to be ready for the prospect/ evaluation camp(s), make it to main camp, get signed, pay in excess of $5000 for this "opportunity" and 6 weeks later face being sent to Jr B? I get the business of Junior hockey but in the new U18/CCHL/CCHL2 model that HEO players are now subject to.....where is the league(s) to protect the interest and more importantly the development of its young talent.

Until you have your kid go through this, I would humbly suggest you temper your enthusiasm for the "development opportunity" that getting sent down means for a 16 year old.

With the 6 starting D CP has right now, it would be hard for this 16 yr old to get much playing time so logging big minutes in CCHL2 is better development then sitting as a spectator in a suit. Every player takes the risk when they sign with a team, if you are near the bottom and they bring in another top D then it is very difficult. CP runs their team to make it to Fred Page Cup and hopefully better run in RBC and that is the kind of team every player wants to play for.

There is another 16 yr old in league not getting many games in either and you can only practice so much without getting game action. Ask a player, if he gets no action in league up or top line and most would answer top line more minutes.
 

BeenThere

Registered User
Oct 24, 2015
122
0
With the 6 starting D CP has right now, it would be hard for this 16 yr old to get much playing time so logging big minutes in CCHL2 is better development then sitting as a spectator in a suit. Every player takes the risk when they sign with a team, if you are near the bottom and they bring in another top D then it is very difficult. CP runs their team to make it to Fred Page Cup and hopefully better run in RBC and that is the kind of team every player wants to play for.

There is another 16 yr old in league not getting many games in either and you can only practice so much without getting game action. Ask a player, if he gets no action in league up or top line and most would answer top line more minutes.

And that's my point, why isn't there any protection for young talent to develop in the CCHL? How many players float through a CCHL roster each year, how many D has CP gone through so far and how many will they audition before the January deadline? And CP is just the example for our discussion they are not alone in this regard. If the sales job of U18 and the CCHL?CCHL2 is about HEO player development then why should this be allowed to happen to young HEO talent?

Take a look at the number of roster moves that a CCHL teams makes each season in the arms race leading up to the deadline, it's almost absurd.

Pay $5K, get limited game ice, then watch as the team brings in more D in the first month of the season and then get told it's better for your development to be sent down......I understand the the competitive and business nature of Jr A hockey but not in the context of this model and pay to play.
 

Easternfan

Registered User
Mar 15, 2016
355
0
And that's my point, why isn't there any protection for young talent to develop in the CCHL? How many players float through a CCHL roster each year, how many D has CP gone through so far and how many will they audition before the January deadline? And CP is just the example for our discussion they are not alone in this regard. If the sales job of U18 and the CCHL?CCHL2 is about HEO player development then why should this be allowed to happen to young HEO talent?

Take a look at the number of roster moves that a CCHL teams makes each season in the arms race leading up to the deadline, it's almost absurd.

Pay $5K, get limited game ice, then watch as the team brings in more D in the first month of the season and then get told it's better for your development to be sent down......I understand the the competitive and business nature of Jr A hockey but not in the context of this model and pay to play.

I agree with your point of trying to develop local talent but the player has to be ready to play full time on a CCHL team and in this case I think one more year to physically mature is needed. I want CCHL to be a strong league so if a team can find a stud then that is better for whole league and will make players work harder.

It is funny how a lot of people bash u18 league for being too diluted but then they want more local players in CCHL and not worrying about talent level. BeenThere, not saying you do this but bottom line we want our kids to play in most competitive league possible to get better. Having that stud D come in will help a D1 scout evaluate a forward a lot better then a 16 yr old not quite ready yet.
 

Sensbethebest

Registered User
Jun 29, 2016
46
0
Ottawa
And that's my point, why isn't there any protection for young talent to develop in the CCHL? How many players float through a CCHL roster each year, how many D has CP gone through so far and how many will they audition before the January deadline? And CP is just the example for our discussion they are not alone in this regard. If the sales job of U18 and the CCHL?CCHL2 is about HEO player development then why should this be allowed to happen to young HEO talent?

Take a look at the number of roster moves that a CCHL teams makes each season in the arms race leading up to the deadline, it's almost absurd.

Pay $5K, get limited game ice, then watch as the team brings in more D in the first month of the season and then get told it's better for your development to be sent down......I understand the the competitive and business nature of Jr A hockey but not in the context of this model and pay to play.

I could have been worse and he made a major Junior team and got 6 shifts a game, had to reduce the high school course load to 2-3 courses then part way through get sent down to a CJHL team near the Major junior team or sent back to the CCHL team. School is screwed up, little to no development in major with 6 shifts.

The CCHL is trying to catch up to the much stronger western leagues. It may be the strongest in the east but look at the rankings and you notice that the best CJHL hockey is out west. If the CCHL didn't want to compete and build success full team it would be filled with local talent but all the top players would go out west to play. You either want a local mediocre league or a competitive league that attracts NCAA schools.
 

nothappy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2015
869
20
I agree with your point of trying to develop local talent but the player has to be ready to play full time on a CCHL team and in this case I think one more year to physically mature is needed. I want CCHL to be a strong league so if a team can find a stud then that is better for whole league and will make players work harder.

It is funny how a lot of people bash u18 league for being too diluted but then they want more local players in CCHL and not worrying about talent level. BeenThere, not saying you do this but bottom line we want our kids to play in most competitive league possible to get better. Having that stud D come in will help a D1 scout evaluate a forward a lot better then a 16 yr old not quite ready yet.

I do worry about the talent level that's why I want less teams at elite hockey. So it is best on best and only those that are true good enough play at the top level play. If we improve Minor Hockey in HEO. I believe more HEO kids will play OHL and CCHL1.
I want the elite area players to be given a equal chance to develop into players.

Too many people on this site believe because you win you are a good coach. If we use Mike Babcock as an example (believed to be Canada's best coach).His team in Toronto is not successful does that make Coach Babcock a poor coach NO.
His World Cup team is the best in the world. Did that make him a good coach NO. He is a great coach because he teaches. Coach Bob Johnson " A Coach is a teacher with a whistle"
Most coaches are better with talented players and I would like most of that talent to be local HEO kids in a local HEO Jr A league. Might be unattainable but it should be a goal.
 

BeenThere

Registered User
Oct 24, 2015
122
0
I could have been worse and he made a major Junior team and got 6 shifts a game, had to reduce the high school course load to 2-3 courses then part way through get sent down to a CJHL team near the Major junior team or sent back to the CCHL team. School is screwed up, little to no development in major with 6 shifts.

The CCHL is trying to catch up to the much stronger western leagues. It may be the strongest in the east but look at the rankings and you notice that the best CJHL hockey is out west. If the CCHL didn't want to compete and build success full team it would be filled with local talent but all the top players would go out west to play. You either want a local mediocre league or a competitive league that attracts NCAA schools.[


So top young HEO talent would make the CCHL a mediocre league? So the OHL and USHL are mediocre? I would argue that the pay for play model is making the CCHL a mediocre league because top level talent will likely go where they don't have to pay.

I'm not bashing the U18 development model or the CCHL but if HEO players are essentially bound to this model from Minor Midget to Junior and the player fees that go with it, there should be developmental guidelines in place.

For example:
Take a look at the US development model for Junior hockey - http://nahl.com/the-nahl/junior-hockey-in-the-us/ ........not saying this is perfect but at least there is an articulated path with guidelines, fees and a business model to promote player development.

Or this article about pay to play in Canada and what two western leagues have done to cut costs and promote business health instead of charging player fees. http://hockeynow.ca/junior/paying-t...aving-jr-a-owners-from-losing-a-small-fortune
 

TheLastShift

Canada
Nov 14, 2007
806
0
Grant committed in the fall of 2014 and was sent down early in 2015 just prior to the playoffs, meaning he made the team as a 16, got his commit and then got sent down late in the season....because that was better for his development? Was subsequently recalled when the rosters expended and practised with CP until their season ended. CP likely had to pay for a 16 year old Jr B card to make that happen but they probably don't have to do that in the new CCHL/CCHL2 arrangement.

For the player and family....they work extremely hard to be ready for the prospect/ evaluation camp(s), make it to main camp, get signed, pay in excess of $5000 for this "opportunity" and 6 weeks later face being sent to Jr B? I get the business of Junior hockey but in the new U18/CCHL/CCHL2 model that HEO players are now subject to.....where is the league(s) to protect the interest and more importantly the development of its young talent.

Until you have your kid go through this, I would humbly suggest you temper your enthusiasm for the "development opportunity" that getting sent down means for a 16 year old.

The player seems to be pretty excited to join a team with a handful of his friends so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
 

BeenThere

Registered User
Oct 24, 2015
122
0
The player seems to be pretty excited to join a team with a handful of his friends so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

So that makes the whole thing okay?....... Nice. What choice does the player have in terms of their presentation if they want to be accepted on their new team and continue to be confident in their ability and their play?
 

TheLastShift

Canada
Nov 14, 2007
806
0
So that makes the whole thing okay?....... Nice. What choice does the player have in terms of their presentation if they want to be accepted on their new team and continue to be confident in their ability and their play?

What choice? Accept the process, be a good teammate, practice hard, develop good habits, and don't come on to HFBoards and get caught up in what people on here are talking about.

People like you need to take a step back. If you do have a kid in the game, I pray you don't act like this around their coaches and management and just save it for an online forum. A players worst enemy can be the ones who support him/her the most (if they aren't doing it the right way).
 

nothappy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2015
869
20
The player seems to be pretty excited to join a team with a handful of his friends so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

If this is true he is probably excited because he gets to play the game he loves not sit in the stands and watch.
 

No Skin in the Game

Registered User
Sep 15, 2015
196
9
Just a bad situation from a logistics standpoint for the family. He already switched from his school to go to school in CP....what does he do now, stay there and hope to make it back to the CPC team or go back to his old school, How do you get from CP to Arnprior when you don't drive and now your in a school that is not in your hometown anymore... despite everything he is just a kid caught up in a business model that does not necessarily have his best interests as a person in mind.....and yes I know that to Play Jr A and beyond you have to make a sacrifice but I really feel for these kids sometimes.
 

BeenThere

Registered User
Oct 24, 2015
122
0
What choice? Accept the process, be a good teammate, practice hard, develop good habits, and don't come on to HFBoards and get caught up in what people on here are talking about.

People like you need to take a step back. If you do have a kid in the game, I pray you don't act like this around their coaches and management and just save it for an online forum. A players worst enemy can be the ones who support him/her the most (if they aren't doing it the right way).

I know nothing about this particular player and pass no judgement, he's just another example of what I don't like about the current league/model. In the same way, I pass no judgement about your parenting skills.

But what these players don't need is people who assume what is best for them, people who lack critical thought and are just prepared to maintain the status quo.
 

hardfacts

Registered User
Jan 18, 2012
304
0
Been a while since I have been on here....but I'm back fellas.....never read so many lunatic comments in my life....what makes a good coach a good coach...lol....a kid gets sent down to Jr B at 16 and there is something wrong with that....want to know what's wrong....society....soft parents and me attitudes...
I'm out...you guys on here are crazy!!!
 

No Skin in the Game

Registered User
Sep 15, 2015
196
9
Been a while since I have been on here....but I'm back fellas.....never read so many lunatic comments in my life....what makes a good coach a good coach...lol....a kid gets sent down to Jr B at 16 and there is something wrong with that....want to know what's wrong....society....soft parents and me attitudes...
I'm out...you guys on here are crazy!!!

I don't think it is crazy for people to have a different opinion of what does or does not make a good coach....On the other hand I personally understand that if a 16 year old is not playing at the right caliber then they should absolutely be sent down to the appropriate league...but lets not forget that this is a pay to play league and parents are spending a lot of money for this level of hockey and I don't think anyone lightly makes a decision to billet their kid or send them to school in a different town. I think the owners have a responsibility to be honest with families about the kids chances of playing and how often they can expect to be a healthy scratch, if that was done and they went anyway then I have no problem.
 

Easternfan

Registered User
Mar 15, 2016
355
0
I don't think it is crazy for people to have a different opinion of what does or does not make a good coach....On the other hand I personally understand that if a 16 year old is not playing at the right caliber then they should absolutely be sent down to the appropriate league...but lets not forget that this is a pay to play league and parents are spending a lot of money for this level of hockey and I don't think anyone lightly makes a decision to billet their kid or send them to school in a different town. I think the owners have a responsibility to be honest with families about the kids chances of playing and how often they can expect to be a healthy scratch, if that was done and they went anyway then I have no problem.

This situation should only be discussed between team and the player with his parents and none of our business. CCHL is not minor hockey anymore and if a team can pick up an older player with great skill, why wouldn't they do that. Do mean a favour and go watch a CP game and watch the D they got out of Quebec and tell me a young local kid should be replacing him or not. Clarke runs a great program and he puts a lot of effort into fielding the best team possible and a reason why a lot of studs go to CP. This 16 yr old will follow the similar path as Grant and will be a dominant D in two years and will get a D1 scholarship.

Enough with this discussion and let's get back to discussing which teams look good and bad so far.
 

Easternfan

Registered User
Mar 15, 2016
355
0
Any guesses which players will still get a D1 scholarship this year? A lot to go if CCHL wants to hit 50 this year.
 

hardfacts

Registered User
Jan 18, 2012
304
0
This situation should only be discussed between team and the player with his parents and none of our business. CCHL is not minor hockey anymore and if a team can pick up an older player with great skill, why wouldn't they do that. Do mean a favour and go watch a CP game and watch the D they got out of Quebec and tell me a young local kid should be replacing him or not. Clarke runs a great program and he puts a lot of effort into fielding the best team possible and a reason why a lot of studs go to CP. This 16 yr old will follow the similar path as Grant and will be a dominant D in two years and will get a D1 scholarship.

Enough with this discussion and let's get back to discussing which teams look good and bad so far.

You got it!!!!....Kings and Grads taking steps backwards...
Kanata going in right direction....finally Rangers get sold...
 

Easternfan

Registered User
Mar 15, 2016
355
0
You got it!!!!....Kings and Grads taking steps backwards...
Kanata going in right direction....finally Rangers get sold...

Kings haven't done anything to improve team from start of season. You don't think Grads will get better now that they have Ngwafusi and Reynolds?

Kanata is a very young team and will keep improving as season goes along and great coach to get most out of his team. Glad Rangers got sold but it will be hard to see major improvements until beginning of next season because Jennings is the one who signed all the players for this season and probably limited cards left to use this season.

Right now I have CP, Cornwall, Hawkesbury and Smith Falls as my top four up to now but that could change if some trades are made. Kemptville will be up there as well with Guy back but I think their D hurt them.
 

hardfacts

Registered User
Jan 18, 2012
304
0
I do worry about the talent level that's why I want less teams at elite hockey. So it is best on best and only those that are true good enough play at the top level play. If we improve Minor Hockey in HEO. I believe more HEO kids will play OHL and CCHL1.
I want the elite area players to be given a equal chance to develop into players.

Too many people on this site believe because you win you are a good coach. If we use Mike Babcock as an example (believed to be Canada's best coach).His team in Toronto is not successful does that make Coach Babcock a poor coach NO.
His World Cup team is the best in the world. Did that make him a good coach NO. He is a great coach because he teaches. Coach Bob Johnson " A Coach is a teacher with a whistle"
Most coaches are better with talented players and I would like most of that talent to be local HEO kids in a local HEO Jr A league. Might be unattainable but it should be a goal.

Not Happy...you need to get out of your mom and dad's basement.....it's 2016 bud....
 

No Skin in the Game

Registered User
Sep 15, 2015
196
9
This situation should only be discussed between team and the player with his parents and none of our business. CCHL is not minor hockey anymore and if a team can pick up an older player with great skill, why wouldn't they do that. Do mean a favour and go watch a CP game and watch the D they got out of Quebec and tell me a young local kid should be replacing him or not. Clarke runs a great program and he puts a lot of effort into fielding the best team possible and a reason why a lot of studs go to CP. This 16 yr old will follow the similar path as Grant and will be a dominant D in two years and will get a D1 scholarship.

Enough with this discussion and let's get back to discussing which teams look good and bad so far.

Ummm, that's exactly what I said, I have no problem with the move as long as the GM and coach had been honest with the player and his family up front about his chances of playing....
 

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