CCHL 2016/2017 Season

[TheLastShift]

One of the coaches in the CCHL thinks that development is not playing a 16 year old in 7 of their first 11 games.
It is very hard to develop or get better being a healthy scratch.
The term not playing the right way is used by coaches to get players to change their style or game. This usually means play my way.
The player played a whole year in the U18 league under his now Jr A coach. If his style of play needed to change why did the coach not try to address this issue last year.
There are many things going on here;
• Is the coach up set the player went to Major Junior Camp?
• Is he upset that the player went to an agent camp?
• Is he upset the player has not committed to a NCAA team?
• Is he upset that the player is considering Major Junior?
None of the above is grounds for not playing this player.
The underlying issue is the CCHL and HEO needs to put into place a policy they insures underage players that sign Jr.A cards are played. In the CCHL Junior A, there should be no 16 year old players, unless they meet the HC requirements of exceptional status (like the OHL has for 15 year olds). This should insure that elite 16 year old get to play. If they cannot play they should have never been signed.
Bottom line play the player or release him.

This isn't Minor Hockey, this is Junior, practice as hard as you play, if you want to play every night you have to develop good habits and earn your ice. I love your posts and all your conspiracy theories, they bring laughter to my day each and every time.

 

[BeenThere]

This isn't Minor Hockey, this is Junior, practice as hard as you play, if you want to play every night you have to develop good habits and earn your ice. I love your posts and all your conspiracy theories, they bring laughter to my day each and every time.

And I would agree if this league wasn't pay to play...the family of a 16 year old pays $5K plus HST for their kid to sit or get sent down to the CCHL2? Other leagues have minimum requirement for the number of 16 years olds a team has to roster and a minimum number of games that these players have to dress / play in. This league continually advertises that it is about development and when parents are paying for it, it is not reasonable to expect that kids should benefit from participating in practices and games?

No argument that a kid has to compete hard an earn their spot (which obviously some 16 yr olds have) but the league and teams have to take some responsibility along with the cash they take in, to maximize player development.

Do you pay for your kids power skating and have them sit on the bench for half the sessions?

 

[Easternfan]

And I would agree if this league wasn't pay to play...the family of a 16 year old pays $5K plus HST for their kid to sit or get sent down to the CCHL2? Other leagues have minimum requirement for the number of 16 years olds a team has to roster and a minimum number of games that these players have to dress / play in. This league continually advertises that it is about development and when parents are paying for it, it is not reasonable to expect that kids should benefit from participating in practices and games?

No argument that a kid has to compete hard an earn their spot (which obviously some 16 yr olds have) but the league and teams have to take some responsibility along with the cash they take in, to maximize player development.

Do you pay for your kids power skating and have them sit on the bench for half the sessions?

Then what do you do when the 16 year old thinks he is too good for u18 hockey and would rather take the chance in CCHL. In my opinion, 16 yr olds do not belong in CCHL or CCHL2 and they have to assume the risk if they think they are good enough.

 

[BeenThere]

Then what do you do when the 16 year old thinks he is too good for u18 hockey and would rather take the chance in CCHL. In my opinion, 16 yr olds do not belong in CCHL or CCHL2 and they have to assume the risk if they think they are good enough. That 16 yr old in CP is nowhere near the top 6, yes he has offensive skills but first job as a D is to defend.

I would like to avoid discussing specific players; besides, no matter what a 16 year old thinks about how good they are, they don't decide whether or not they make a team. In my view a coach/GM has to take responsibility for their selections because the kids don't select themselves.

While there are very few true freshman (18 yr olds) in the NCAA, would it not make sense for this league that primarily aims to place kids into college programs, to allow young players the opportunity to develop and progress before they graduate from high school? There are Canadian Jr A leagues with regulations in place to develop young talent, as does the USHL, where 16 year olds are quite competitive. I think the real issue is it doesn't make any financial sense for CCHL teams to advance their young talent when they can collect three years of U18 players fees and then CCHL fees until the age of twenty.

If the league if really about development and HEO players are essentially locked into the U18/ CCHL/CCHL2 model, then mandate that teams carry and dress"X" number of U18 players, reduce the number of 20 year olds and the number or imports. This way top 16 year talent becomes the norm in the CCHL and not the exception. I also think it would help the league avoid losing it's younger talent to other leagues......just my two cents.

 

[Jeff077]

Then what do you do when the 16 year old thinks he is too good for u18 hockey and would rather take the chance in CCHL. In my opinion, 16 yr olds do not belong in CCHL or CCHL2 and they have to assume the risk if they think they are good enough.

Every situation with 16 year olds is different. I have always had 16 year olds on my Jr.B, now CCHL2 team but only if they could play, not 4th line or #6,7 D but play a regular shift as well as some special teams.
I have had as many as 4 16 year olds in my lineup and competed well as well as developed kids who the next year at 17 became full time Jr.A players and some advanced further than that.
I have 2 this year and both play a lot and both feel they are benefiting by playing Jr. rather than U18 or Midget in Kingston.

 

[Easternfan]

Every situation with 16 year olds is different. I have always had 16 year olds on my Jr.B, now CCHL2 team but only if they could play, not 4th line or #6,7 D but play a regular shift as well as some special teams.
I have had as many as 4 16 year olds in my lineup and competed well as well as developed kids who the next year at 17 became full time Jr.A players and some advanced further than that.
I have 2 this year and both play a lot and both feel they are benefiting by playing Jr. rather than U18 or Midget in Kingston.

Agreed every situation is different but basically if a 16 yr old can't make top 2 lines then he is better off playing u18 and getting more ice and confidence. The way it is setup now that u18 could still play 10 games at CCHL or CCHL2 so it is a great way to keep developing while slowly getting ready for following year. No reason a kid can't get called up full time if he is ready later on and team needs him.

 

[No Skin in the Game]

It would be tough for a kid to change schools to play CCHL and in some cases move and be billeted and then not play regularly...I would hope that the team management would have been honest with players and their families about how often they could expect to be healthy scratches.

On the other hand there is always the possibility that the coach legitimately thought a kid would be playing more and then for whatever reason the skill wasn't there or other players really stepped up...but if they were honest with the family and the kid opted to go there anyway, you can't blame the organization.

There is no way to know for sure what conversations did or did not happen....

 

[Clarke74]

One of the coaches in the CCHL thinks that development is not playing a 16 year old in 7 of their first 11 games.
It is very hard to develop or get better being a healthy scratch.
The term not playing the right way is used by coaches to get players to change their style or game. This usually means play my way.
The player played a whole year in the U18 league under his now Jr A coach. If his style of play needed to change why did the coach not try to address this issue last year.
There are many things going on here;
• Is the coach up set the player went to Major Junior Camp?
• Is he upset that the player went to an agent camp?
• Is he upset the player has not committed to a NCAA team?
• Is he upset that the player is considering Major Junior?
None of the above is grounds for not playing this player.
The underlying issue is the CCHL and HEO needs to put into place a policy they insures underage players that sign Jr.A cards are played. In the CCHL Junior A, there should be no 16 year old players, unless they meet the HC requirements of exceptional status (like the OHL has for 15 year olds). This should insure that elite 16 year old get to play. If they cannot play they should have never been signed.
Bottom line play the player or release him.

my last 3 16yrolds...1 drafted into NHL and full ride.....1 on NHL draft list TCE and full ride....1 on NHL draft list right now and 3 offers on table.....
.....thx

 

[nothappy]

my last 3 16yrolds...1 drafted into NHL and full ride.....1 on NHL draft list TCE and full ride....1 on NHL draft list right now and 3 offers on table.....
.....thx

The way you answered this speaks volumes."My last 3 16 year olds"

You did not get them drafted or a NCAA commitment their talent did. All you did was provide them with a place to show their talent. Poor teams in your league put players in NCAA also.

 

[HockeyVolunteer]

More moves for Rangers

Nick Nagwafusi going back to his old haunts as he's traded to Cumberland for Liam Peyton and Alex Robert. Will Peyton and Robert report or are they still at their OHL teams. I had read a tweet earlier this week from the Grads welcoming Peyton back to their Midget team.

Also heard Sam Paquette was released to Jr. B, but can't find any info on that.

Heard they may be signing a kid from Thunder Bay also.

Lots of changes.

 

[Jeff077]

Agreed every situation is different but basically if a 16 yr old can't make top 2 lines then he is better off playing u18 and getting more ice and confidence. The way it is setup now that u18 could still play 10 games at CCHL or CCHL2 so it is a great way to keep developing while slowly getting ready for following year. No reason a kid can't get called up full time if he is ready later on and team needs him.

My personal philosophy on it for my level is that if they cannot play in my top 9 forwards and top 4 D then I will not sign a 16 year old. He would then get the same ice and development as he would in U18, just against older competition, which in my opinion they are ready for.
For the players that do not fit that criteria then yes U18 is the perfect route with the AP process in place and we have already used 2 such players this year and I would think more to come.

 

[Easternfan]

My personal philosophy on it for my level is that if they cannot play in my top 9 forwards and top 4 D then I will not sign a 16 year old. He would then get the same ice and development as he would in U18, just against older competition, which in my opinion they are ready for.
For the players that do not fit that criteria then yes U18 is the perfect route with the AP process in place and we have already used 2 such players this year and I would think more to come.

Nice, if all teams use this philosophy then kids will develop at all levels. The kid who is not quite ready to play a level up will work hard and that will make kids below him work harder as well....hopefully if kid has the right mindset.

 

[Clarke74]

Nice, if all teams use this philosophy then kids will develop at all levels. The kid who is not quite ready to play a level up will work hard and that will make kids below him work harder as well....hopefully if kid has the right mindset.

Jeff has always done a great job with his team's and should be coaching in our league!

 

[Sensbethebest]

The way you answered this speaks volumes."My last 3 16 year olds"

You did not get them drafted or a NCAA commitment their talent did. All you did was provide them with a place to show their talent. Poor teams in your league put players in NCAA also.

Wow Nothappy you have proven that you truly do not understand the process for these kids to get to where they are, NCAA, etc.

Yes their Talent is key but having a coach that spots the talent and tries to get that kid in situations to be showcased, develop and move forward are critical. I have seen situations where a 16 yr. old is playing in games where it would have been better to let an older more experienced player suit up. Why because it is the right thing to do. They need to make mistakes they need time to develop which means the team sacrifices a bit for that benefit. I think Jason Clark's reputation in this area for any kid on his team speaks for itself. I support another team in the league but I do have the utmost respect for his ability to be there for his guys whether they are 16 or 20 and looking to move on.

If winning was the only thing there would only be a 1 or two 16 year olds playing. Add in the need to develop players and that jumps a fair bit.

 

[nothappy]

Wow Nothappy you have proven that you truly do not understand the process for these kids to get to where they are, NCAA, etc.

Yes their Talent is key but having a coach that spots the talent and tries to get that kid in situations to be showcased, develop and move forward are critical. I have seen situations where a 16 yr. old is playing in games where it would have been better to let an older more experienced player suit up. Why because it is the right thing to do. They need to make mistakes they need time to develop which means the team sacrifices a bit for that benefit. I think Jason Clark's reputation in this area for any kid on his team speaks for itself. I support another team in the league but I do have the utmost respect for his ability to be there for his guys whether they are 16 or 20 and looking to move on.

If winning was the only thing there would only be a 1 or two 16 year olds playing. Add in the need to develop players and that jumps a fair bit.

Good luck with that thought process.
I hope you get to have a son or grandson play in the CCHL and for a good coach. Who ever you think that is.
Best of luck.

 

[EasternOntario Fan]

I love the banter about the old system vs the new system. One thing I would like to know, and maybe its easy to find but I really don't care that much to do research-----how much has the new system affected the bottom line of CCHL clubs?

 

[BeenThere]

I love the banter about the old system vs the new system. One thing I would like to know, and maybe its easy to find but I really don't care that much to do research-----how much has the new system affected the bottom line of CCHL clubs?

You will never find that out because they don't have to disclose, why would they and they will say that U18 is being administered by HEO and they are not making any money from it.

But ask yourself how much money they generate from evaluation / prospect camps, the CDHL, hockey combines etc., they have increased the number of kids in their prospect pool and diversified their revenue streams......that is the bottom line and we could likely just end all this discussion because we keep going around in circles.

 

[Sensbethebest]

Good luck with that thought process.
I hope you get to have a son or grandson play in the CCHL and for a good coach. Who ever you think that is.
Best of luck.

Yes I do and Have experienced exactly what I said and seen it several other times as well.

 

[60 minutes]

Plk

Something's gotta give in the land of the PLK. It's been a long time since they sat in last place. When and what changes will take place to turn that ship around?

 

[BeenThere]

Something's gotta give in the land of the PLK. It's been a long time since they sat in last place. When and what changes will take place to turn that ship around?

Owner/GM was on the bench last year as the head coach, separated the roles this year and removed himself from the bench, gotta think the coaching staff is feeling some pressure, not going to fire himself.

 

[upinarms]

Owner/GM was on the bench last year as the head coach, separated the roles this year and removed himself from the bench, gotta think the coaching staff is feeling some pressure, not going to fire himself.

I suspect it comes down to recruiting. CP and PLK both have 7 HEO players. So roughly equal number of players recruited. CP in 1st PLK in last. Who is the better recruiter.

 

[Easternfan]

I suspect it comes down to recruiting. CP and PLK both have 7 HEO players. So roughly equal number of players recruited. CP in 1st PLK in last. Who is the better recruiter.

Definitely one is a better recruiter, 3 of the 7 players committed are from CP. Also, when you run a great program and have a good chance to go to Fred Page and RBC Cup then it isn't as hard to bring in elite players from out of town. Clarke has put in a lot of work to have these results and he knows what he is doing as well with his young players.

 

[PG]

Nick Nagwafusi going back to his old haunts as he's traded to Cumberland for Liam Peyton and Alex Robert. Will Peyton and Robert report or are they still at their OHL teams. I had read a tweet earlier this week from the Grads welcoming Peyton back to their Midget team.

Also heard Sam Paquette was released to Jr. B, but can't find any info on that.

Heard they may be signing a kid from Thunder Bay also.

Lots of changes.

The issues with this franchise have not changed…..teams built with individual goals, quick fix attitude, and bias in the backgrounds of players recruited
….

 

[nothappy]

One of the coaches in the CCHL thinks that development is not playing a 16 year old in 7 of their first 11 games.
It is very hard to develop or get better being a healthy scratch.
The term not playing the right way is used by coaches to get players to change their style or game. This usually means play my way.
The player played a whole year in the U18 league under his now Jr A coach. If his style of play needed to change why did the coach not try to address this issue last year.
There are many things going on here;
• Is the coach up set the player went to Major Junior Camp?
• Is he upset that the player went to an agent camp?
• Is he upset the player has not committed to a NCAA team?
• Is he upset that the player is considering Major Junior?
None of the above is grounds for not playing this player.
The underlying issue is the CCHL and HEO needs to put into place a policy they insures underage players that sign Jr.A cards are played. In the CCHL Junior A, there should be no 16 year old players, unless they meet the HC requirements of exceptional status (like the OHL has for 15 year olds). This should insure that elite 16 year old get to play. If they cannot play they should have never been signed.
Bottom line play the player or release him.

This issue appears to be solved by the management of the CPC. They have decided to send this player to CCHL2 in Arnprior. #Development?, #investing in CPC Future?, investing in players future? #Teaching, #Just bring in better players

 

[No Skin in the Game]

This issue appears to be solved by the management of the CPC. They have decided to send this player to CCHL2 in Arnprior. #Development?, #investing in CPC Future?, investing in players future? #Teaching, #Just bring in better players

I would be extremely unhappy if I moved my son from one school board to another only to have him sent down 6 weeks into the school year. That is irresponsible in my opinion, its not like they do not know the kid, he played U18 for them last year......