Confirmed Trade: [CBJ/LAK/PHI] Provorov (30% retain by LAK) to CBJ; Walker, Grans, Petersen, '23 LAK 1st, '24 LAK 2nd, '24 CBJ 2nd to PHI; Connauton, Hodgson to LAK

[ProfessorFink22]

For the 22nd pick in 2023 and 64th pick in 2025, it seems like a reasonable price to pay to add a legitimate top 4 key player.

I see what you did there

 

[Rebels57]

No he's not. He'll play less than York and Sanheim.

If he's even in Philly to start 23-24. Torts hates him. If he is, he's gone by the deadline.

 

[ponder]

By retaining on Prov, LA basically sheds three million for two years (but because Prov is not playing it's kind of like only two million because they have to pay another player at least league min to take that spot in the lineup).

And for that they give up Walker, Grans, and a 2nd or probably around a 1st and 2nd value wise for two years @ 2-3 million in cap savings.

Take away: the cost of shedding cap is very high.

You are really overvaluing Helge Grans, if you have his value as "around a 1st". He was an early 2nd round pick 3 years ago, but his value is down since IMO - just had a down year in the AHL, regressed from the year before. On most reputable, recent Kings prospect rankings, he was ranked as roughly their 6th-10th best prospect. IMO he's worth around a 3rd round pick, not around a 1st.

Assuming the Kings keep Connauton and Hodgson in the minors (safe bet IMO), they paid a 2nd and a fairly "meh" prospect to free up:
- $5.65 mil in cap space next year
- $3 mil in cap space the year after

Not very expensive IMO. Keep in mind that Petersen has been atrocious, completely dead cap, and Sean Walker is serviceable but overpaid, he's a cap dump too.

 

[Canucks LB]

Looks good for cbj and philly

 

[JRichard]

You are really overvaluing Helge Grans, if you have his value as "around a 1st". He was an early 2nd round pick 3 years ago, but his value is down since IMO - just had a down year in the AHL, regressed from the year before. On most reputable, recent Kings prospect rankings, he was ranked as roughly their 6th-10th best prospect. IMO he's worth around a 3rd round pick, not around a 1st.

Assuming the Kings keep Connauton and Hodgson in the minors (safe bet IMO), they paid a 2nd and a fairly "meh" prospect to free up:
- $5.65 mil in cap space next year
- $3 mil in cap space the year after

Not very expensive IMO. Keep in mind that Petersen has been atrocious, completely dead cap, and Sean Walker is serviceable but overpaid, he's a cap dump too.

Grans just turned 21 last month.
Kings’ 6th best prospect might be Philly’s 3rd best…
Whole Ontario team regressed from 41w to 34. Missed po. Maybe more players are to blame.

 

[Kaiden Ghoul]

Did Eklund send his goons to take down the server ?

 

[The Madrigal]

Wow, wow wow wow wow wow. So much to digest here.

Long story short, Philly did exactly what they needed to do, Columbus did ok, and the Kings got taken behind the wood shed.

Short story long now:

For the Flyers and Danny Briere that is how you start a rebuild. Provorov had regressed here in recent years and it was obvious it was time for both sides to move on. He also wasn't going to be a part of their rebuild with his age and two years remaining on their deal. To get a 1st in the loaded 2023 draft class, two future seconds, and a really good (but not great) RHD prospect in Grans is tremendous value. Briere showed something that Fletcher never did during his tenure in Philly which was getting creative to maximize value in making a three team deal and taking on salary.

For Columbus I get the move and on paper it looks good but it really comes down to which Provorov they get. I think Provorov needs a change of scenery in the worst way. I also think getting him with LA retaining 30% makes it low risk high reward. I don't think Provorov will ever be a number 1 D in this league, but if he can just settle in as a good 2/3 type guy giving up a 1st and future 2nd isn't bad at all. I wasn't expecting a team like Columbus to be the one to acquire Provorov. I was thinking more along the lines of a playoff team who could plug him into a true 2nd pairing role but we'll see.

From LA's perspective I get what they are doing but dang did they do poorly here. They gave up a future 2nd and someone who is around their 5th best prospect or so to save something like 5.5 million in cap space this year and 3 million next year. Having lived through some Flyers trades where they had to give up assets to clear cap space it's never cheap but it doesn't make it any less easy to stomach.

Lastly, so much for the idea that Provorov's "beliefs" were going to significantly get in the way of his trade value, and so much for the idea that Provorov couldn't land the Flyers three high level pieces in a trade. If you consider that the Flyers got a 2nd to take on Peterson's contract for the next three years, they essentially got a 1st in 2023, a 2nd in 2024, and a good prospect for him. Walker you can argue is or is not a cap dump for LA but teams are always desperate for RHD depth at the deadline and with some retention Danny B. can probably turn him into a 4th or 5th round pick next spring. I think this is just the start for the Flyers too. Next up is Hayes, Deangelo if they can move him, and MAYBE one of TK or Hart. Great start to the Briere era though.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Is Provorov elite?

Tell me how I'm supposed to think.

 

[JRichard]

Is Provorov elite?

Tell me how I'm supposed to think.

Elite in one department: Time on ice

Will play way less behind Werenski Is my uneducated guess

Wow, wow wow wow wow wow. So much to digest here.

Long story short, Philly did exactly what they needed to do, Columbus did ok, and the Kings got taken behind the wood shed.

Short story long now:

For the Flyers and Danny Briere that is how you start a rebuild. Provorov had regressed here in recent years and it was obvious it was time for both sides to move on. He also wasn't going to be a part of their rebuild with his age and two years remaining on their deal. To get a 1st in the loaded 2023 draft class, two future seconds, and a really good (but not great) RHD prospect in Grans is tremendous value. Briere showed something that Fletcher never did during his tenure in Philly which was getting creative to maximize value in making a three team deal and taking on salary.

For Columbus I get the move and on paper it looks good but it really comes down to which Provorov they get. I think Provorov needs a change of scenery in the worst way. I also think getting him with LA retaining 30% makes it low risk high reward. I don't think Provorov will ever be a number 1 D in this league, but if he can just settle in as a good 2/3 type guy giving up a 1st and future 2nd isn't bad at all. I wasn't expecting a team like Columbus to be the one to acquire Provorov. I was thinking more along the lines of a playoff team who could plug him into a true 2nd pairing role but we'll see.

From LA's perspective I get what they are doing but dang did they do poorly here. They gave up a future 2nd and someone who is around their 5th best prospect or so to save something like 5.5 million in cap space this year and 3 million next year. Having lived through some Flyers trades where they had to give up assets to clear cap space it's never cheap but it doesn't make it any less easy to stomach.

Lastly, so much for the idea that Provorov's "beliefs" were going to significantly get in the way of his trade value, and so much for the idea that Provorov couldn't land the Flyers three high level pieces in a trade. If you consider that the Flyers got a 2nd to take on Peterson's contract for the next three years, they essentially got a 1st in 2023, a 2nd in 2024, and a good prospect for him. Walker you can argue is or is not a cap dump for LA but teams are always desperate for RHD depth at the deadline and with some retention Danny B. can probably turn him into a 4th or 5th round pick next spring. I think this is just the start for the Flyers too. Next up is Hayes, Deangelo if they can move him, and MAYBE one of TK or Hart. Great start to the Briere era though.

Peterson has 2 years to go.

 

[The Madrigal]

Elite in one department: Time on ice

Will play way less behind Werenski Is my uneducated guess


Peterson has 2 years to go.

I'm aware, what's your point?

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Flyers defense looking a little worse for wear but it’s a start.
1st Pair LD Sanheim RD Walker
2nd Pair LD York RD Ristolainen
3rd Pair LD Seeler RD Attard
LD Zamula
RD Grans
RD DeAngelo < Trade or Buyout
—————————————————
Columbus defense looks reinvigorated with a fresh look.
1st Pair LD Werenski RD Peeke
2nd Pair LD Provorov RD Blankenburg
3rd Pair LD Svozil RD Gudbranson
LD Bean
RD Boqvist
RD Jiricek < More AHL development, will get looks.
—————————————————
LA making space to resign and bringing up the kids.
1st Pair LD Anderson RD Doughty
2nd Pair LD Gavrikov RD Roy
3rd Pair LD Durzi RD Clarke
RD Spence
LD Bjornfot
LD Moverare

 

[JRichard]

I'm aware, what's your point?

Typo? You wrote « next three years ». Pretty big difference imo.

 

[The Madrigal]

Typo? You wrote « next three years ». Pretty big difference imo.

Ah, my bad. Yeah it was brain fart / typo. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[viper0220]

Is Columbus pushing their chips in here?

Not really, they gave up a late 1st round pick and a 2nd.

If Provorov does decent in Columbus and the team does not improve, they can get something for him.

 

[Tripod]

Grans just turned 21 last month.
Kings’ 6th best prospect might be Philly’s 3rd best…
Whole Ontario team regressed from 41w to 34. Missed po. Maybe more players are to blame.

Huh?

Who is Grans better than?

Gauthier?
Foerster?
Brink?
Ersson?
Andrea?
Zamula?

 

[fsanford]

Wow, wow wow wow wow wow. So much to digest here.

Long story short, Philly did exactly what they needed to do, Columbus did ok, and the Kings got taken behind the wood shed.

Short story long now:

For the Flyers and Danny Briere that is how you start a rebuild. Provorov had regressed here in recent years and it was obvious it was time for both sides to move on. He also wasn't going to be a part of their rebuild with his age and two years remaining on their deal. To get a 1st in the loaded 2023 draft class, two future seconds, and a really good (but not great) RHD prospect in Grans is tremendous value. Briere showed something that Fletcher never did during his tenure in Philly which was getting creative to maximize value in making a three team deal and taking on salary.

For Columbus I get the move and on paper it looks good but it really comes down to which Provorov they get. I think Provorov needs a change of scenery in the worst way. I also think getting him with LA retaining 30% makes it low risk high reward. I don't think Provorov will ever be a number 1 D in this league, but if he can just settle in as a good 2/3 type guy giving up a 1st and future 2nd isn't bad at all. I wasn't expecting a team like Columbus to be the one to acquire Provorov. I was thinking more along the lines of a playoff team who could plug him into a true 2nd pairing role but we'll see.

From LA's perspective I get what they are doing but dang did they do poorly here. They gave up a future 2nd and someone who is around their 5th best prospect or so to save something like 5.5 million in cap space this year and 3 million next year. Having lived through some Flyers trades where they had to give up assets to clear cap space it's never cheap but it doesn't make it any less easy to stomach.

Lastly, so much for the idea that Provorov's "beliefs" were going to significantly get in the way of his trade value, and so much for the idea that Provorov couldn't land the Flyers three high level pieces in a trade. If you consider that the Flyers got a 2nd to take on Peterson's contract for the next three years, they essentially got a 1st in 2023, a 2nd in 2024, and a good prospect for him. Walker you can argue is or is not a cap dump for LA but teams are always desperate for RHD depth at the deadline and with some

retention Danny B. can probably turn him into a 4th or 5th round pick next spring. I think this is just the start for the Flyers too. Next up is Hayes, Deangelo if they can move him, and MAYBE one of TK or Hart. Great start to the Briere era though.

Gavrikov is the best player of all those you mention. That is the asset the Kings got out of the deal.


Blake gave up a 2nd a guy that was sent down to the AHL not to return and a third line pairing D man.

Cap space is still the most valuable asset out there. Blake did well to get out of a bad contract he agreed to. I am surprised he found a taker

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Elite in one department: Time on ice

Will play way less behind Werenski Is my uneducated guess


Peterson has 2 years to go.

2 seasons to go at $5mil per season, Flyers got a good return but are spending 900k more then before the trade, if Pederson is buried in the AHL then that 900k goes away with a little more.

The Phantoms goaltending was atrocious maybe Calvin Pederson can find his game in the rolling mountains of the Lehigh Valley.

Another thing I’ve noticed is the Phantoms are loading up on Swedish defenders as Grans, Ginning and Andrae are the mainstays next season.

Ontario is getting a few AHL vets in RW Hodgson and LD Connauton to fill in the space in a mentorship role as they didn’t serve a purpose in Lehigh, why Fletcher signed them beyond 1 season is unclear.

 

[JRichard]

Huh?

Who is Grans better than?

Gauthier?
Foerster?
Brink?
Ersson?
Andrea?
Zamula?

No clue on his rank as i never saw him play. Thats why said « might ». Ranking on LA’s doesnt matter, that was my point. Probably worded wrong.

in only few hours Grans went from 6th best to 6-10th to 6th best rd…

 

[CBJx614]

Flyers defense looking a little worse for wear but it’s a start.
1st Pair LD Sanheim RD Walker
2nd Pair LD York RD Ristolainen
3rd Pair LD Seeler RD Attard
LD Zamula
RD Grans
RD DeAngelo < Trade or Buyout
—————————————————
Columbus defense looks reinvigorated with a fresh look.
1st Pair LD Werenski RD Peeke
2nd Pair LD Provorov RD Blankenburg
3rd Pair LD Svozil RD Gudbranson
LD Bean
RD Boqvist
RD Jiricek < More AHL development, will get looks.
—————————————————
LA making space to resign and bringing up the kids.
1st Pair LD Anderson RD Doughty
2nd Pair LD Gavrikov RD Roy
3rd Pair LD Durzi RD Clarke
RD Spence
LD Bjornfot
LD Moverare

Bean and Boqvist will probably make the starting lineup over Svozil and possibly Blanks. Svozil should be stapled next to Jiricek in Cleveland next season

But our D is also extremely injury prone so it's highly unlikely everyone will ever be fully healthy so it all works out

 

[ProfessorFink22]

With more reflection, I see why all sides did this, I see easy logic how everyone improves and it fits everyone's window. Is it possible this trade can become a win-win-win?

 

[Tripod]

Ontario is getting a few AHL vets in RW Hodgson and LD Connauton to fill in the space in a mentorship role as they didn’t serve a purpose in Lehigh, why Fletcher signed them beyond 1 season is unclear.

Because Fletch is an idiot.

 

[JRichard]

2 seasons to go at $5mil per season, Flyers got a good return but are spending 900k more then before the trade, if Pederson is buried in the AHL then that 900k goes away with a little more.

The Phantoms goaltending was atrocious maybe Calvin Pederson can find his game in the rolling mountains of the Lehigh Valley.

Another thing I’ve noticed is the Phantoms are loading up on Swedish defenders as Grans, Ginning and Andrae are the mainstays next season.

Ontario is getting a few AHL vets in RW Hodgson and LD Connauton to fill in the space in a mentorship role as they didn’t serve a purpose in Lehigh, why Fletcher signed them beyond 1 season is unclear.

ECHL goalies did badly but both Swedes did ok in Lehigh .911 and .900
Loved Lindblom
Older dudes like me remember Forsberg and Pelle.

 

[The Madrigal]

Gavrikov is the best player of all those you mention. That is the asset the Kings got out of the deal.

Blake gave up a 2nd a guy that was sent down to the AHL not to return called and a third line pairing D man.

Cap space is still the most valuable asset out there. Blake did well to get out of a bad contract he agreed to.

Gavrikov literally has NOTHING to do with this deal. Mismanaging the cap and having to trade away assets to create cap space to sign him isn't acquiring him. Also, if you want to look at it that way you have to include what the Kings traded to acquire Gavrikov, then what they gave up to get the cap space to sign him. A first in 2023, a second in 2024, a third in 2024, and Helge grans is quite a hefty price for a 2nd pairing D.

If you want to go through the mental gymnastics of justifying giving up a 2nd round pick and top 5 prospect for cap space that's cool but it doesn't change the facts. Cap space is only a valuable "asset" when you mismanage it and have to give up assets to be able to sign players.

Believe me, as a Flyers fan I have been there and did everything I could to talk myself into stuff like this. I guess in some ways "they had to," but make no mistake about it the Kings had to eat a shit sandwich on this one.

 

[JRichard]

With more reflection, I see why all sides did this, I see easy logic how everyone improves and it fits everyone's window. Is it possible this trade can become a win-win-win?

Not LA… Their cap situation forced them to do that otherwise no way Jose. Got to be a cheaper way to get rid of around 3 mil.
Clb will make the po with Provorov and will pay him 7+ on his next contract? Doubt it. Timing issue here. On a different team sure a mid 1st and a 2nd is fine.

 

[CBJx614]

With more reflection, I see why all sides did this, I see easy logic how everyone improves and it fits everyone's window. Is it possible this trade can become a win-win-win?

That seems to be a pretty popular theme among Jarmo trades. He's good at putting together straight up hockey deals that everyone benefits from. Jones/Johansen, Saad/Anisimov+, Saad/Panarin, Dubois/Laine, Foligno/1st, Savard/1st, Jones/Boqvist+1sts, Gavi+Korpi/1st