Rumor: CBJ interested in Ryan Callahan

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Callahan's better than Umberger. The discussion about acquiring him doesn't really hinge on this debate, however. It hinges on whether he improves your team enough that surrendering assets to bring him to your team is a net benefit. (Not to mention the idea of re-signing him and what that would cost.)

I don't think it is.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

Very true. You can't. But the two bits of circumstantial evidence I provided still constitute more than the opposition view of "well, Umberger just sucks and Callahan's just somehow intrinsically better" - a position that's being clung to in defiance of objective statistical and subjective observable reality.

My apologies for leaping into the realm of the irrational to try to make my case. Sometimes when you're dealing with irrational people, it's the only way to talk to them.

Callahan is a top penalty killer, RJ is not. In addition to the leadership, playoff experience, other intangibles. Also really quality defensive forward and shot blocker. Anyone can look at the fact that their stats are similar and call them the same player, but there's a lot more to hockey than that. RJ is also having a better statistical season that Dustin Brown, does that mean RJ is better and more deserving of an Olympic roster spot than the Kings captain?

And don't blame others for your irrational arguments, sister.

 

[Jackets16]

Callahan's better than Umberger. The discussion about acquiring him doesn't really hinge on this debate, however. It hinges on whether he improves your team enough that surrendering assets to bring him to your team is a net benefit. (Not to mention the idea of re-signing him and what that would cost.)

I don't think it is.

Exactly

 

[Jackets16]

That's the problem. I highly doubt this would happen, as coaches don't do this, but from the team perspective it makes sense to rotate Skille in and find out what we have. Tropp, Umberger, Calvert — all of those guys can sit a game or two until we see what we have with Skille.

I also think it makes sense to assess our defencemen in preparation for the playoffs, so rotate in Prout, Golo and Erixon.

Skille seems to be as good as Tropp

I see absolutely no reason to do that with the forwards though. We know what we got in our 4th line and it is REALLY GOOD. The defensemen I agree with. Tropp is a +11 in 9 games. I really don't understand why anyone would want to sit him for Skille. Skille MAY be better, but now is now the time to find out, IMO. Those are things you find out when your team is bad.

 

[blahblah]

Callahan is a top penalty killer, RJ is not. In addition to the leadership, playoff experience, other intangibles. Also really quality defensive forward and shot blocker. Anyone can look at the fact that their stats are similar and call them the same player, but there's a lot more to hockey than that. RJ is also having a better statistical season that Dustin Brown, does that mean RJ is better and more deserving of an Olympic roster spot than the Kings captain?

Yes, Callahan is a better player - marginally. Is he 1.5 million a year better? I don't think so. No idea why this is turning into a RJ .vs. Callahan debate, honestly.

No idea where you were going with the last part of it. Everyone on here is well aware of intangibles. That's part of the reason RJ was paid 4.6 million to begin with. Remember the whole "He's a leader, let make him captain! He's money in the playoffs! (kind of like what we are sold with Horton).

If there is one thing this team has a lot of, it's those darn intangibles.

Oh and there was nothing irrational about her argument.

 

[blahblah]

I see absolutely no reason to do that with the forwards though. We know what we got in our 4th line and it is REALLY GOOD. The defensemen I agree with. Tropp is a +11 in 9 games. I really don't understand why anyone would want to sit him for Skille. Skille MAY be better, but now is now the time to find out, IMO. Those are things you find out when your team is bad.

Don't sell me on that plus/minus stat, we've had many players that have excelled in that over the years even if it was a bit of a mirage and most of those player aren't here anymore.

What is this talk of "sitting"? It was fairly clear I was talking about roster moving forward (trades and re-sign). Tropp is in the lineup right now. I'm ok with his play, but Letestu and MacKenzie are the keys to that line. Tropp is complementary and Skille could easily do the job with those two.

No there isn't a reason to do anything now.

Also, let's find another thread of you want to keep talking about Skille.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Callahan is a top penalty killer, RJ is not. In addition to the leadership, playoff experience, other intangibles. Also really quality defensive forward and shot blocker. Anyone can look at the fact that their stats are similar and call them the same player, but there's a lot more to hockey than that. RJ is also having a better statistical season that Dustin Brown, does that mean RJ is better and more deserving of an Olympic roster spot than the Kings captain?

And don't blame others for your irrational arguments, sister.

Actually, I'm going to side with Viqsi on this one. That in itself isn't uncommon, but on the issue of Umberger it certainly is.

Over the years, I've found a lot of information on national team selections and some of the politics that go into it. One thing that always seems to stand out is the age and future of a player under consideration; there are a lot of times that an invite will be extended to a younger player not because he's better, but because they want him to jump at the chance to accept an invite to future events if he develops into a better player.

Hockey Canada had problems with the 1996 World Cup for this reason. They went into the tournament without Ray Bourque, Patrick Roy, and Mario Lemieux; Bourque had been absent from the 1991 Canada Cup as well. In the opinion of a good number of people, Hockey Canada had done a poor job cultivating relationships with numerous players previously, that they seemed to have the idea that anyone should be honored to receive that call and jump like some type of Pavlovian dog to wear the maple leaf no matter what. The end result was that the World Cup team had Adam Foote, Lyle Odelein, and Sylvain Lefebvre instead of Ray Bourque out there.

We're left with a couple of possibilities for the fact that Umberger has never had any real consideration for USA Hockey teams. He was on the U18 team (2000), then two straight WJC teams (2001 and 2002). In the 10 years since, he's appeared in one World Championship team, that being in 2006 when he played a single game. A teammate on that squad was Ryan Kesler.

Now, I find it strange that a solid NHLer wouldn't have made a single other WC appearance with the USA despite numerous years out of the playoffs and another couple years out of the playoffs early. It's entirely reasonable to suggest that there is some type of politics at play, especially when you consider that the bottom two lines at the WC are normally depth NHLers, AHLers, and random guys playing in Europe. Umberger would be a massive upgrade over most of those guys, yet he's not there. Why?

(Also, on the issue of playoff experience, Callahan has 14 goals [9 ES] and 24 points in 59 games. Umberger has 14 goals [11 ES] and 19 points in just 24 games.)

 

[bizzz*]

Skille seems to be as good as Tropp.

Skille is nowhere near as good as Tropp defensively and he sucks in traffic. His shot is better though.

 

[Jackets16]

Don't sell me on that plus/minus stat, we've had many players that have excelled in that over the years even if it was a bit of a mirage and most of those player aren't here anymore.

What is this talk of "sitting"? It was fairly clear I was talking about roster moving forward (trades and re-sign). Tropp is in the lineup right now. I'm ok with his play, but Letestu and MacKenzie are the keys to that line. Tropp is complementary and Skille could easily do the job with those two.

No there isn't a reason to do anything now.

Also, let's find another thread of you want to keep talking about Skille.

Tropp has pretty good skill for a guy who is just a complentary forward. I like Skille. I just see no reason in sitting any of our 4th liners, RIGHT NOW, for him. I am sure he will get another chance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk82zLaTgS0

 

[RBarRegular]

Maybe it's not a matter of getting rid of a guy to make room for Skille. Perhaps it's an injury that opens the door. Of course, he would have to take the opportunity and run with it. I just like his game is all. He has speed and can shoot. Good debate.

 

[Viqsi]

Callahan's better than Umberger.

I could not disagree more, but will let that pass for the time being seeing as though that's not your core point.

The discussion about acquiring him doesn't really hinge on this debate, however. It hinges on whether he improves your team enough that surrendering assets to bring him to your team is a net benefit. (Not to mention the idea of re-signing him and what that would cost.)

I don't think it is.

The reason why this has turned into a RJ versus Callahan debate is because there's a contingent of folks who seem to think that swapping out RJ for Callahan would represent such a net benefit, even considering Callahan's absurd contract demands.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I could not disagree more, but will let that pass for the time being seeing as though that's not your core point.

I don't care which player is better. I really don't. (And I especially don't care about the weight of the pieces of evidence being used in the debate.) Because...

The reason why this has turned into a RJ versus Callahan debate is because there's a contingent of folks who seem to think that swapping out RJ for Callahan would represent such a net benefit, even considering Callahan's absurd contract demands.

It would not.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

I could not disagree more, but will let that pass for the time being seeing as though that's not your core point.



The reason why this has turned into a RJ versus Callahan debate is because there's a contingent of folks who seem to think that swapping out RJ for Callahan would represent such a net benefit, even considering Callahan's absurd contract demands.

Callahan's contract demands have nothing to do with his ability to help the team this spring and in a potential playoff run.

 

[Viqsi]

Callahan's contract demands have nothing to do with his ability to help the team this spring and in a potential playoff run.

We are not likely to be a cup contender this year. Rentals are therefore not a good idea. If we trade for Callahan, it should be because we expect to keep him. Therefore his contract demands are very relevant.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Callahan's contract demands have nothing to do with his ability to help the team this spring and in a potential playoff run.

As if those things exist in a vacuum.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

We are not likely to be a cup contender this year. Rentals are therefore not a good idea. If we trade for Callahan, it should be because we expect to keep him. Therefore his contract demands are very relevant.

What, so only the Pens and Sharks should rent players? The Blue Jackets have made the playoffs once and never won a playoff series. They should do everything they can to get in this year and try to make some noise.

 

[Xoggz22]

I have no idea where this will head (this topic or this post ) but as I think about this, is it realistic to think that the CBJ thinks Callahan is the next CBJ captain and they move Dubi (this deal or separately)? We have Gaborik coming off the books so the salary is essentially a wash (just looking at numbers, not skill sets). Callahan definitely fits the mold of what the CBJ is building. Dubi has one year remaining on his contract and Wennberg may be pushing for a future C spot.

If we look at the brick by brick scenario, maybe several pieces being moved opens up a future spot for a player like Wennberg (who could start low in the lineup with Arty, Jenner, Johansen and others able to man the C position for the next couple years as he adjusts. Callahan is a top 6 LW as I recall (a need) and his intangibles are undeniable.

CBJ could get value out of Gaborik and Dubi in trades and have some young players that will be pushing for time. Just thinking aloud. Not sure I buy this but there is some possible value to having Callahan and modifying the team without potential disruption to the Mojo (Dubi moves in off season?).

That all said, I don't see Callahan as a $7MM player and think it's ludicrous but there are scenarios that make sense to me. St. Louis moved salary and let the youth fill in. They got better and paid less aside to a few key players. I love Dubi but could see how he could be a player moved if you brought in a guy like Callahan. You could put Umby in the same category(movement).

Just something to think about.

 

[DJA]

I have no idea where this will head (this topic or this post ) but as I think about this, is it realistic to think that the CBJ thinks Callahan is the next CBJ captain and they move Dubi (this deal or separately)? We have Gaborik coming off the books so the salary is essentially a wash (just looking at numbers, not skill sets). Callahan definitely fits the mold of what the CBJ is building. Dubi has one year remaining on his contract and Wennberg may be pushing for a future C spot.

If we look at the brick by brick scenario, maybe several pieces being moved opens up a future spot for a player like Wennberg (who could start low in the lineup with Arty, Jenner, Johansen and others able to man the C position for the next couple years as he adjusts. Callahan is a top 6 LW as I recall (a need) and his intangibles are undeniable.

CBJ could get value out of Gaborik and Dubi in trades and have some young players that will be pushing for time. Just thinking aloud. Not sure I buy this but there is some possible value to having Callahan and modifying the team without potential disruption to the Mojo (Dubi moves in off season?).

That all said, I don't see Callahan as a $7MM player and think it's ludicrous but there are scenarios that make sense to me. St. Louis moved salary and let the youth fill in. They got better and paid less aside to a few key players. I love Dubi but could see how he could be a player moved if you brought in a guy like Callahan. You could put Umby in the same category(movement).

Just something to think about.

If we acquire Callahan, no way we move Dubi. They were dynamite by all accounts when playing together for the Rags. Acquiring Callahan would be a way to complement Dubi, not act as a "fill in" role.

 

[blahblah]

Tropp has pretty good skill for a guy who is just a complentary forward. I like Skille. I just see no reason in sitting any of our 4th liners, RIGHT NOW, for him. I am sure he will get another chance.

Did I say anything to suggest that I wanted anything done right now? Pretty clear that I didn't; don't know why you felt the need to defend or highlight that.

I said Tropp was complementary to that line. That doesn't imply anything beyond, at this moment in time on that line. Skille has just as much, I contend more, skill as Tropp.

Frankly I don't have a huge preference other than I think Skill, long term, could develop into something beyond simply a role player. I think Tropp is destined to be a third/fourth line role player and a PK specialist who can chip in. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Jackets16]

I have no idea where this will head (this topic or this post ) but as I think about this, is it realistic to think that the CBJ thinks Callahan is the next CBJ captain and they move Dubi (this deal or separately)?

It is possible, but I would rather have Dubinsky. We don't have to give up assets to keep Dubinsky. If we are going to give up assets, we should do it to get an elite player or a player of need. Callahan isn't either, IMO.

 

[Jackets16]

Did I say anything to suggest that I wanted anything done right now? Pretty clear that I didn't; don't know why you felt the need to defend or highlight that.

I said Tropp was complementary to that line. That doesn't imply anything beyond, at this moment in time on that line. Skille has just as much, I contend more, skill as Tropp.

Frankly I don't have a huge preference other than I think Skill, long term, could develop into something beyond simply a role player. I think Tropp is destined to be a third/fourth line role player and a PK specialist who can chip in. Nothing wrong with that.

You do realize I was responding to more the one post and not just yours?

As for Skille having more skill. Agree to disagree. I think Tropp has more skill and he is younger.

 

[Xoggz22]

It is possible, but I would rather have Dubinsky. We don't have to give up assets to keep Dubinsky. If we are going to give up assets, we should do it to get an elite player or a player of need. Callahan isn't either, IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not pushing for this or even on board with it but we run the risk of overpaying Dubi next year after his contract is up. I love him and would love to see him around. I still think he could be moved if the locker room presence could be filled. Callahan would be a complementary piece to Dubi but could also take much of the role that he fills. Again, I think he could take the role that Umby fills too but don't think he offers the value that Dubi would and his NTC may be tricky.

For the record, I'm not on the party bus that is pulling to have Callahan come here and moving assets to get him. I just think there could be a lot more pieces in play if the FO considers this a team still building.

 

[EDM]

I don't think the FO still considers this a "building" team. I think they see it as a currently competitive team that could use fine tuning. I think it would be a huge setback to a worn out fan base to start "building' when we are finally on the cusp of the playoffs.

 

[blahblah]

What, so only the Pens and Sharks should rent players? The Blue Jackets have made the playoffs once and never won a playoff series. They should do everything they can to get in this year and try to make some noise.

Callahan isn't a rental in the context of what you are talking about. This isn't some again veteran that we might extend for a year or two, at best, after this season.

JK/JD have already stated that they are looking to add to the core. Gaborik was brought in because he had another year on his contract and we were hoping that he would work out and get an extension.

For good or ill, Callahan is probably one of the top 5 (might be the top depending on who signs) forwards in this years UFA group if the Rangers can't re-sign him. You really don't rent those as you tend to give up too many assets to get them.

 

[EspenK]

So another way of looking at the Umby-Callahan discussion is how much hubbub would be generated if the guy being shopped was Umbie. i'm guessing outside of here not much. Just saying. Waiting for the if Callahan played in Winnipeg or Arizona he would really suck crowd to reply.