Rumor: CBJ interested in Ryan Callahan

[blahblah]

You do realize I was responding to more the one post and not just yours?

You do realize that if you don't want me to think you are talking to me you shouldn't quote me right? My last in response was from you directly responding to me and me only. It wasn't the previous post.

As for Skille having more skill. Agree to disagree. I think Tropp has more skill and he is younger.

And he drops out with one of the lamest cliche's out there.

At any rate, I'm done talking about this stupid topic. Neither one is really worth the time or energy; plus it's OT.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

Callahan isn't a rental in the context of what you are talking about. This isn't some again veteran that we might extend for a year or two, at best, after this season.

JK/JD have already stated that they are looking to add to the core. Gaborik was brought in because he had another year on his contract and we were hoping that he would work out and get an extension.

For good or ill, Callahan is probably one of the top 5 (might be the top depending on who signs) forwards in this years UFA group if the Rangers can't re-sign him. You really don't rent those as you tend to give up too many assets to get them.

A rental is a acquiring a player who is a UFA at the end of the year. That is what I'm talking about, not sure what you mean by the context comment. Renting a player who can help you get into the post-season. Having Callahan on our roster this year would make our roster better, it's that simple. I assume if we keep things up Jarmo will be a buyer at the deadline. We had 3 first round draft picks last year and have plenty of prospects in the system, I don't think it would be irresponsible for this front office to trade something to try and finally get us back in the playoffs, its long overdue.

 

[blahblah]

A rental is a acquiring a player who is a UFA at the end of the year. That is what I'm talking about. Renting a player who can help you get into the post-season.

Thank you for the most literal interpretation without any consideration to what was stated in my post.

No kidding that is what a rental is. And I'm telling you that players in Callahan's position are rarely rentals. He's not old and he'll be in demand as a UFA. Any team getting him isn't looking for him to be a rental. NY could also get some good return just waiting until the off season and keep him for the playoffs. NY is going to want a replacement roster player, most likely a forward. NY is also going to look to charge us more as a in-division team right on their tails.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

Thank you for the most literal interpretation without any consideration to what was stated in my post.

No kidding that is what a rental is. And I'm telling you that players in Callahan's position are rarely rentals. He's not old and he'll be in demand. Any team getting him isn't looking for him to be a rental. NY could also get some good return just waiting until the off season and keep him for the playoffs. NY is going to want a replacement roster player, most likely a forward. NY is also going to look to charge us more as a in-division team right on their tails.

You literally said "Callahan isn't a rental in the context of what you are talking about," so I thought I had to clarify for you.

Thomas Vanek and Matt Moulson are both skilled players in their late 20's who will be traded at the deadline and be rentals...So not sure why you are acting like skilled pending UFAs being traded at the deadline is a rarity.

 

[Jackets16]

You do realize that if you don't want me to think you are talking to me you shouldn't quote me right? My last in response was from you directly responding to me and me only. It wasn't the previous post.



And he drops out with one of the lamest cliche's out there.

At any rate, I'm done talking about this stupid topic. Neither one is really worth the time or energy; plus it's OT.

I was talking to you. I was talking to both of you. I don't know why though. This conversation has gone the way almost any conversation with you has ever gone. No where. Lamest cliche's? What are you even talking about?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

So another way of looking at the Umby-Callahan discussion is how much hubbub would be generated if the guy being shopped was Umbie.

That's how it started. The assumption was the Umby would be one piece moved to acquire Callahan.

EDIT: I believe this is the "post that started it all."

At this point I think I'm willing to offer up to Umberger+Prout+2014 1st. Umberger has to be included, I think most would rather have Callahan at a bit more than Umby at his current deal. the 2014 draft is not looking like anything special, and while I like what Prout does I Savard has been really good this year and I think Erixon is ready for prime time.

 

[blahblah]

You literally said "Callahan isn't a rental in the context of what you are talking about," so I thought I had to clarify for you.

Thomas Vanek and Matt Moulson are both skilled players in their late 20's who will be traded at the deadline and be rentals...So not sure why you are acting like skilled pending UFAs being traded at the deadline is a rarity.

Whoever acquires them will be looking to sign them to a long term deal. That, by definition, isn't a rental is it?

Whoever acquires Callahan isn't looking for a rental, thus the context.

A rental is "I need help for the playoffs", not "Here let me ship an ass-ton of assets over for a guy that I am going to re-sign for six or seven years". Seems pretty straight forward.

Whoever acquires Vanek or Mouslon isn't looking for a rental. Although the later is slightly more possible than the former.

 

[cslebn]

Let's end discussing Cally.

I want Girardi!

 

[blahblah]

That's how it started. The assumption was the Umby would be one piece moved to acquire Callahan.

I'm having a hard time getting a feel for the assets required to make the move, while ending up with a significant upgrade.

Meaning I'm not sure bringing in Callahan and shipping out RJ makes that much of a difference in the number of points we collect during the course of a season. Any increase could easily be offset by a 20 game absence for injury. Whatever you (collective you) may think of RJ he's a pretty durable player and he is contributing to the team this season.

I tend to agree that Callahan is better on specialty teams, but RJ hasn't been a slouch.

I know others don't agree, but I tend to agree with some of the others that Callahan is a bit better of a player over RJ. However I don't think it has to be a one for one there. I could see both of them on this team together. I can see the math working.

 

[Viqsi]

Having Callahan on our roster this year would make our roster better, it's that simple.

Okay, let's say we trade Johansen away to get Callahan. Callahan is now on our roster. Is our roster better?

Oh, I guess it's not that simple after all.

 

[blahblah]

Let's end discussing Cally.

I want Girardi!

Honestly, no interest. If I question Callahan, I certainly question Girardi.

 

[blahblah]

Okay, let's say we trade Johansen away to get Callahan. Callahan is now on our roster. Is our roster better?

Oh, I guess it's not that simple after all.

In the vacuum of we don't move anything on the roster to get Callahan, are we better? I'm not so sure. It won't be the same 12 guys. We are scoring around 3.5 goals a game right now over the last month plus. Our PP is doing pretty well, not sure if it improves with him.

He might be able to help the PK some and help reduce our overall goals against. Although the PK is on a role right now.

As I asked around page 1, and it was ignored, who do you remove to get him into the lineup?

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

Okay, let's say we trade Johansen away to get Callahan. Callahan is now on our roster. Is our roster better?

Oh, I guess it's not that simple after all.

let's not say that, because even as far as irrational, nonsensical hypotheticals go, that is ridiculous.

If the CBJ keep up their current pace, it is not unrealistic that they will be buyers at the deadline. Last year they traded 3 roster players for Marian Gaborik. I don't see why it's unrealistic to think JD and Jarmo would be willing to make another splash to try to get us in the playoffs after narrowly missing out last year, and they have already shown in one year on the job they want to win and aren't afraid to be aggressive.

A pick/prospect/roster player, is a price the CBJ can easily afford without mortgaging too much of the future if they do choose to get in the market for a big name.

 

[Savant]

Coming from the Rangers side, they only piece that really interests NY (as a centerpiece) is Boone Jenner.

Ruling out the ex-Rangers contingent, Ryan Johansen (who is unrealistic and I apologize for any offers for him), Cam Atkinson (who the Rangers like, but have trepidation about having two small wingers in the top six for match up reason) and other obvious non-starters like defensemen (the Rangers defense is probably done), Umberger and Horton, Jenner is the only one who survives the game of musical chairs really.

I can only really see something done if Jenner is invovled. I don't know how Columbus feels about that and I know Callahan is pretty polarizing but realistically speaking unless something wacky or creative happens, that is really the only piece that makes sense from a Rangers perspective.

Hope this was constructive.

 

[Viqsi]

Coming from the Rangers side, they only piece that really interests NY (as a centerpiece) is Boone Jenner.

Ruling out the ex-Rangers contingent, Ryan Johansen (who is unrealistic and I apologize for any offers for him), Cam Atkinson (who the Rangers like, but have trepidation about having two small wingers in the top six for match up reason) and other obvious non-starters like defensemen (the Rangers defense is probably done), Umberger and Horton, Jenner is the only one who survives the game of musical chairs really.

I can only really see something done if Jenner is invovled. I don't know how Columbus feels about that and I know Callahan is pretty polarizing but realistically speaking unless something wacky or creative happens, that is really the only piece that makes sense from a Rangers perspective.

Hope this was constructive.

It's helpful enough to tell me that under no circumstances should we even remotely consider Callahan for anything other than a possible target this summer.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

let's not say that, because even as far as irrational, nonsensical hypotheticals go, that is ridiculous.

Well, it did take it out of the realm of the vacuum that the discussion had been taking place in and brought it into the real world, where other assets are involved. This led directly to ythe improved response below.

If the CBJ keep up their current pace, it is not unrealistic that they will be buyers at the deadline. Last year they traded 3 roster players for Marian Gaborik. I don't see why it's unrealistic to think JD and Jarmo would be willing to make another splash to try to get us in the playoffs after narrowly missing out last year, and they have already shown in one year on the job they want to win and aren't afraid to be aggressive.

I agree.

A pick/prospect/roster player, is a price the CBJ can easily afford without mortgaging too much of the future if they do choose to get in the market for a big name.

Can you "concrete" this for me? What pick? What prospect? What roster player? And why you think said package would be satisfactory return as far as the NYR are concerned?

Because I'm having trouble thinking of something that the Rangers would likely accept that I would be willing to surrender and that would make the team enough better in the process.

 

[blahblah]

Coming from the Rangers side, they only piece that really interests NY (as a centerpiece) is Boone Jenner.

Ruling out the ex-Rangers contingent, Ryan Johansen (who is unrealistic and I apologize for any offers for him), Cam Atkinson (who the Rangers like, but have trepidation about having two small wingers in the top six for match up reason) and other obvious non-starters like defensemen (the Rangers defense is probably done), Umberger and Horton, Jenner is the only one who survives the game of musical chairs really.

I can only really see something done if Jenner is invovled. I don't know how Columbus feels about that and I know Callahan is pretty polarizing but realistically speaking unless something wacky or creative happens, that is really the only piece that makes sense from a Rangers perspective.

Hope this was constructive.

No one can speak for the FO, but trading Jenner would be a bit on the idiotic side. At least for Callahan.

One side note, two small forwards? We laugh at that with Calvert and Atkinson on the same line. Having said that moving Atkinson would be almost as dumb.

The thing that is going to happen is that you are going to only have leverage in that you keep up the perception that there is a lot of league wide interest so you can try and bring up the perception of a bidding war. The reality is that if you can't sign him you are just looking for the best package you can get.

Translation: What interests you and your front office could be completely and totally meaningless and you just end up getting what you can. With us you will try and get more, but if we're the only team willing to pay Callahan you are pretty much just going to have to take what you can get. Even if that is in the off season.

The Jackets aren't desperate and can simply wait you out. I doubt there is any feeling of desperation from the front office. It would seem that they want him, but they aren't going to dramatically overpay for him.

This is Jenner's first year and he's already a difference maker. That is just a move you don't make.

 

[pete goegan]

Coming from the Rangers side, they only piece that really interests NY (as a centerpiece) is Boone Jenner.

Ruling out the ex-Rangers contingent, Ryan Johansen (who is unrealistic and I apologize for any offers for him), Cam Atkinson (who the Rangers like, but have trepidation about having two small wingers in the top six for match up reason) and other obvious non-starters like defensemen (the Rangers defense is probably done), Umberger and Horton, Jenner is the only one who survives the game of musical chairs really.

I can only really see something done if Jenner is invovled. I don't know how Columbus feels about that and I know Callahan is pretty polarizing but realistically speaking unless something wacky or creative happens, that is really the only piece that makes sense from a Rangers perspective.

Hope this was constructive.

It is very helpful for me, Savant, confirms that I don't want to trade for Callahan.

 

[Savant]

It's helpful enough to tell me that under no circumstances should we even remotely consider Callahan for anything other than a possible target this summer.

Cheers. The Rangers don't see a whole lot of logic trading Callahan to Ohio either to be honest. While he would be great for you guys I just think it is really hard to get a good match, and the Rangers certainly don't want to send his to a team they are not only in division with, but likely in direct competition with in the postseason. Not really sure what Columbus would be willing to offer but it looks more fantasy than reality. As I said I can only see Jenner being an option for a centerpiece. Maybe Jack Johnson if Marc Staal is traded for a forward, but there is certainly nothing on the horizon in that regard (a.k.a. I just made it up, Marc Staal looks awesome right now and Rangers still think he will resign). If you have any ideas I am willing to listen but again that is just the current perspective. Going to need a big incentive to make that kind of trade especially in division.

Most on the Rangers boards are pretty much resigned that it will be Callahan to STL for Chris Stewart and something else (maybe EDM's 2nd from the Perron trade), and even that is risky/underwhelming. Basically no one is happy with the Callahan drama. He should have had a hat trick last night and looked really emotional after getting the game's first star. Anything can happen here.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Cheers. The Rangers don't see a whole lot of logic trading Callahan to Ohio either to be honest. While he would be great for you guys I just think it is really hard to get a good match, and the Rangers certainly don't want to send his to a team they are not only in division with, but likely in direct competition with in the postseason. Not really sure what Columbus would be willing to offer but it looks more fantasy than reality. As I said I can only see Jenner being an option for a centerpiece. Maybe Jack Johnson if Marc Staal is traded for a forward, but there is certainly nothing on the horizon in that regard (a.k.a. I just made it up, Marc Staal looks awesome right now and Rangers still think he will resign). If you have any ideas I am willing to listen but again that is just the current perspective. Going to need a big incentive to make that kind of trade especially in division.

Most on the Rangers boards are pretty much resigned that it will be Callahan to STL for Chris Stewart and something else (maybe EDM's 2nd from the Perron trade), and even that is risky/underwhelming. Basically no one is happy with the Callahan drama. He should have had a hat trick last night and looked really emotional after getting the game's first star. Anything can happen here.

Two helpful posts, thanks. I know the bolded is where I'd be if I were in NYR fans' shoes.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

Well, it did take it out of the realm of the vacuum that the discussion had been taking place in and brought it into the real world, where other assets are involved. I enjoyed your response below.



I agree.



Can you "concrete" this for me? What pick? What prospect? What roster player? And why you think said package would be satisfactory return as far as the NYR are concerned?

Because I'm having trouble thinking of something that the Rangers would likely accept that I would be willing to surrender and that would make the team enough better in the process.

I would have no problem, nor do I think the CBJ front office would have a problem with giving up our 1st rounder this year, considering we have a strong talent base, had 3 first rounders last year, and shouldn't be near the lottery.

For Callahan I don't think the price would be near as steep as it would be for a player like Vanek or Gaborik. The Isles gave up a 1st, a 2nd, and Moulson for Vanek. The biggest rental deal last year was Jason Pominville for a 1st, 2nd, Matt Hackett and Johan Larson. I don't think the price for Callahan would be as high as either of those guys (although I do think this public shopping is just a negotiating tactic to get him resigned).

I would give a 1st + Calvert for Callahan, who is a young player who could step into Callahan's role in the lineup and then we'd probably have to throw someone else in to make the money work, maybe dump a Mackenzie/Boll/Letestu contract like we did with Dorsett.

I would be fine trading a 1st to Buffalo along with say, David Savard, to get a guy like Moulson. They get a young D for the future and a pick, our D pool is still in good shape going forward with young guys like Erixon/Prout/Murray. Or if they trade Miller, we could probably afford to trade Buffalo Forsberg instead since we are set at goalie with Bob and they could use young goalie prospects.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

Coming from the Rangers side, they only piece that really interests NY (as a centerpiece) is Boone Jenner.

Ruling out the ex-Rangers contingent, Ryan Johansen (who is unrealistic and I apologize for any offers for him), Cam Atkinson (who the Rangers like, but have trepidation about having two small wingers in the top six for match up reason) and other obvious non-starters like defensemen (the Rangers defense is probably done), Umberger and Horton, Jenner is the only one who survives the game of musical chairs really.

I can only really see something done if Jenner is invovled. I don't know how Columbus feels about that and I know Callahan is pretty polarizing but realistically speaking unless something wacky or creative happens, that is really the only piece that makes sense from a Rangers perspective.

Hope this was constructive.

Guys like Jenner don't get thrown into rental deals. The only comparison I could think of to something like that happening was when Brayden Schenn got dealt for Mike Richards, where LA traded a young up and coming center prospect for one who was currently in their prime, but locked up long term.

Considering the Blues offer is Chris Stewart, and maybe a pick, I find it tough to believe the asking price for Callahan as a rental would include a prospect the level of Jenner. If the Rangers do actually deal him, I would think it would be for a cheaper NHL caliber guy who is obviously not as good (or expensive) as him but who still could adequately take his spot without a major hit to the team + a future asset.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I would have no problem, nor do I think the CBJ front office would have a problem with giving up our 1st rounder this year, considering we have a strong talent base, had 3 first rounders last year, and shouldn't be near the lottery.

While I don't have a problem with this, I think devil's advocate could say that, given the team held all three first-rounders last year, the FO values those assets and is loathe to trade them. Not necessarily arguing that, just positing it.

For Callahan I don't think the price would be near as steep as it would be for a player like Vanek or Gaborik. The Isles gave up a 1st, a 2nd, and Moulson for Vanek. The biggest rental deal last year was Jason Pominville for a 1st, 2nd, Matt Hackett and Johan Larson. I don't think the price for Callahan would be as high as either of those guys (although I do think this public shopping is just a negotiating tactic to get him resigned).

I would give a 1st + Calvert for Callahan, who is a young player who could step into Callahan's role in the lineup and then we'd probably have to throw someone else in to make the money work, maybe dump a Mackenzie/Boll/Letestu contract like we did with Dorsett.

Noting your caveat I've bolded - This is an interesting take. I've grown to like Matty C, and you'd have to decide how important he is in making Cam go. I know you're not biog on fourth-liners but Mac and Letestu make that line go. And Boll was re-signed by the current FO to a three-year deal. I mean, if the deal were 1st/Calvert/Boll, I'd seriously consider it. I'm not sure NYR would, but...

I would be fine trading a 1st to Buffalo along with say, David Savard, to get a guy like Moulson. They get a young D for the future and a pick, our D pool is still in good shape going forward with young guys like Erixon/Prout/Murray. Or if they trade Miller, we could probably afford to trade Buffalo Forsberg instead since we are set at goalie with Bob and they could use young goalie prospects.

This I find more interesting than the Callahan discussion.

 

[blahblah]

Guys like Jenner don't get thrown into rental deals.

While you are spot on, I find it hilarious that you are still calling this a rental deal.

Vanek could end up being a rental for the Islanders, but that wasn't the intent.

 

[blahblah]

I've grown to like Matty C, and you'd have to decide how important he is in making Cam go.

He's probably the best and most tolerable option from the CBJ side. I'm still not convinced that translates into 5 million dollars a year worth of wins.