Unlike previous years, this club doesn't seem to be yearning for help. MAYBE they trade off Gaborik, Comeau or Skille for picks or prospects. Or maybe they keep Gaborik and sign him to a smaller contract? I'd still like a better backup goaltender.
Rumor: CBJ interested in Ryan Callahan
- Thread starter DJA
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CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
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Yeah except for the fact RJ has more goals and points than Callahan. So that finishing thing is a load of BS. The only year Callahan had better than RJ is two years ago when Callahan had 29 goals. They have very similar offensive production.
Callahan is a better leader and a better defender, you got me there. Callahan at 7 mill for 7 years is totally better than RJ's deal just for this reason.
Back up goaltender seems to be the real need. While I assume Bob would play every game in the playoffs, it would be nice if we had a more skilled backup to handle a playoff game if needed in a crunch. I just don't see McBackup being able to handle that successfully.
Callahan has only played in 39 games this year (21 points). RJ has played in 56 (30 points)
No doubt though - points wise, they are similar players. You are right about that. But when I say finisher, I mean because he has better hands and skills than RJ. Also more valuable on the PK.
There has to be a reason Callahan is an automatic team USA guy and Umberger doesn't even get a camp invite, right?
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Leadership is up in the air given that Umby was everybody's favorite non-Nash choice for Captain back in the day, and quite frankly I'd be inclined to question the defense ability point as well (not that I think Umby is all that great at it; I just don't see evidence that Callahan is significantly better).
I maintain that any move of Umby for Callahan has as its absolute best possible outcome (read: if we're EXTREMELY fortunate) the chance to be a lateral move. Otherwise, it is a likely downgrade in nearly every possible measurable and observable way except two: 1) three years of player age and 2) disgruntled fan perception. #1 is not enough to justify it IMO, and #2 is valueless.
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Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
There's two reasons I'm aware of:
1) A former NHL and college hockey teammate, who was and still is in Vancouver, who has a remarkable capacity for grudges and yet is arguably more desirable on the Team USA roster, and
2) A former Team USA GM who is still a major voice on the team selection committee who may be over his own grudge by now but still favors the individual noted in #1 above, when it comes down to it.
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
- 43,696
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I see. But we have good enough finishers on the team right now imo. Guys like Calvert, Horton, Foligno are pretty good at banging in rebounds. Plus RJ is a bigger body and is better at screens. I just don't think Callahan is worth the assets or the money it will take to get him and keep him. His leadership and intangibles aren't enough for me to pay him that much, especially when his offensive production isn't impressive.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
The Umberger-Kesler feud is factually established. That Kesler is a Team USA regular is similarly established. I'm not sure what part of that constitutes a "conspiracy theory". Kesler does more for Team USA than Umberger does, so in a choice between the two it'd be Kesler. Therefore trying to compare Umberger to a similar player using Team USA status isn't helpful - it ignores vital context.
Now, if I was suggesting that Brian Burke was responsible for it all out of sheer hate, one might call that a conspiracy theory. But that's not the case.
Iron Balls McGinty
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2005
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I'll be honest. I don't recall a single time ever that I've heard Umberger's name considered by anyone for the US Olympic team. He came through the USNDTP and played in the world juniors in college.
He has only 1 game of experience in the yearly world championships tournament in 2006. Considering how many times the CBJ have not made the playoffs, he is either not invited or has no interest in playing for the USA when the season ends.
Yeah, he has never been considered. Pretty sure Team USA has better things to do than worry about on-ice feuds from years ago. These guys are pros, all the guys on the team have had contentious games and/or playoff series against each other; they put it behind them to represent their country.
cslebn
80 forever
- Feb 15, 2012
- 2,802
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1. You can't actually prove the bolded unlike the Kesler Feud.
2. Seriously, somethings do go deep enough. Saying people "act like professionals" is BS. Look at any corporate workplace. They are filled with nepotism, bully, old boys clubs, etc. People generally don't mature past high school cliques. If you were building a team would you even risk dissension amongst players? No. You build with he best you can and try to build in chemistry.
At the end of the day the Jackets have no business with Cally at the price he would cost and the salary he's demanding. Simple as that.
And seriously that "proposal" on the trade forums with the Avs.... That one took balls.
So you guys really want to put your money on some amateurish feud keeping guys off the team mentality and "factually establish" that approach? Really? Well sorry, among the numerous ways your take diverges from actual logic, you can't "factually establish" bias. And you wanna deny you're putting forth a conspiracy theory? As if the people in the upper reaches of USA hockey are so petty? And you want to take it so far as to advocate "ignoring" a Blue Jackets fan who's calling you out for being full of it?? Yeah, because opinions different than yours aren't even worth being aware of.
I tell you, some of you Columbus fans are too much
Get. A. Grip.
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Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Very true. You can't. But the two bits of circumstantial evidence I provided still constitute more than the opposition view of "well, Umberger just sucks and Callahan's just somehow intrinsically better" - a position that's being clung to in defiance of objective statistical and subjective observable reality.
My apologies for leaping into the realm of the irrational to try to make my case. Sometimes when you're dealing with irrational people, it's the only way to talk to them.
They are both third liners, I see no reason at obtaining Callahan at more money to provide the same level of production, it makes 100% no sense. I can't stand Umberger either, but Callahan is a lateral move.
RBarRegular
Registered User
To me, the best deadline acquisition the CBJ can make is already in the organization. His name is Jack Skille and he is languishing in the minor leagues. He can skate and shoot and is as fierce in terms of competing as the other guys on our team. Get him 10 - 12 minutes a night and he WILL produce.
cbjfaninmo
4 those about 2 rock
I am not a big Umby fan but he does seem to be playing better with Horton around. This Callahan stuff makes no sense for this team. The best move may be no move at this point and see what Gabby brings. Let the boys roll and leave the chemistry alone. My biggest concern is keeping Bob healthy. If he goes down we are probably screwed.
I can't name one player currently on this team I would want to get rid of to make room for Skille.
To me, Callahan is only worth the money he wants for the leadership intangible. There's no stat for it, but it is huge.
I'd give a 29 year old Mark Messier $42 for 7 yrs. I'd probably trade a couple of good players for that right too.
But as far as I know, Callahan is NOT comparable to Mark Messier.
I'd give a 29 year old Mark Messier $42 for 7 yrs. I'd probably trade a couple of good players for that right too.
But as far as I know, Callahan is NOT comparable to Mark Messier.
I feel the same way. Every opportunity we've given him he's done great with, and leads our team in Goals per 60 minutes. Skille might be a late blooming power forward sniper, or not, but we won't know if we don't give him a shot.
That's the problem. I highly doubt this would happen, as coaches don't do this, but from the team perspective it makes sense to rotate Skille in and find out what we have. Tropp, Umberger, Calvert — all of those guys can sit a game or two until we see what we have with Skille.
I also think it makes sense to assess our defencemen in preparation for the playoffs, so rotate in Prout, Golo and Erixon.
Skille seems to be as good as Tropp, could very well have more upside, and not sure Boll fits with this team long term. Comeau probably isn't long for this team. MacKenzie may or may not get another contract, but I would keep him.
Not a lot of room and not sure why we are talking about it here.
I'm not sure who I would get rid of to bring in Callahan, as I've stated a few times.
I'm not sure what this team is going to do, we are very deep. At forward, it's mostly developing talent - or best players are probably 2-3 years a way at a minimum.
I get your last point, as it's fairly obvious. But you are looking at more like 63+ million over 7 years.
You can't pay that much money over term (6 million) for an aging player that already has injury history that isn't much of an upgrade over most of your top six. I mean, I guess you can. You should have enough cap space (even with a big raise for Johansen and a new contract for Bob, while taking Murray and Dubinsky into account). Not sure who becomes the 13th forward or who moves on, but maybe that's part of the deal to get him.
Not sure how much you really want to spend for a 50 point player with 65 point and (barely) 30 goal upside that will probably play from 60-75 games a year. He is pretty good on special teams. Over 1/3 of his goals will probably comes on special teams.
Since he is becoming an UFA, I'm less concerned about return as I would be his next contract. I guess the Rangers could try and get more than a 1st and a marginal prospect or something along those lines. You would have to move some salary as well. But he isn't Vanek (and we see how well that is working out for the Islanders) and it's only a deadline move. He certainly fits in with what we are doing, however.
My guess is that Callahan wouldn't mind coming here and I'm guessing that the front office wouldn't mind paying him. My guess would be what the Rangers would ask for if they can't get something done.
Should be interesting.
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1. You can look at the orientation roster from the summer. over 40 players on it. No Umberger. Same with in 2009. Good indication USA didn't consider him, as generally the guys who are selected come from this pool of players.
http://olympics.usahockey.com/page/show/844350-camp-roster
2. The Canucks and Blackhawks hate each other. No problem having Kesler and Kane on the same team. Comparing a general corporate workplace to Olympians ... no.
