Gregor Samsa
Registered User
- Sep 5, 2020
- 3,747
- 4,402
Confirmed with Link: Carter Hart Officially Charged With One Count Of Sexual Assault (Per His Lawyers); Non-roster, salary cap info in OP
- Thread starter SnS
- Start date
Larry44
#FlyersPerpetualMediocrity
- Mar 1, 2002
- 12,132
- 7,645
Formenton did the right thing, turning himself in first and doing the first media perp walk. Might be quieter for the others.
BillDineen
Former Flyer / Extinct Dinosaur Advisor
- Aug 9, 2009
- 9,454
- 8,282
I am wondering how legally strong the case is. London Police basically had to charge someone given the press. All of these players will have good lawyers. In the end I hope justice is served, but I won't be shocked at all if they are found innocent.
Hollywood Cannon
I'm Away From My Desk
renberg
Registered User
This thing is going to get uglier than I imagined.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
If this were true they wouldn't have tried to fudge consent
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Flyerfan4life
Registered User
anyone NOT braced for the outcome of this wasnt paying attention..
when it comes to this Org. it will always be the worst possible outcome..
the Org. is cursed... simple as that..
#Darkesttimeline
#Maximumpain
when it comes to this Org. it will always be the worst possible outcome..
the Org. is cursed... simple as that..
#Darkesttimeline
#Maximumpain
That may be true, but being a young man and not a scholar doesn't give you the right to do anything. This cannot be stressed enough: IT IS NOT THE VICTIM'S RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE THEY DON'T GET RAPED.
Is it possible that these guys didn't go to the hotel with the intention of gang raping someone. Absolutely. I don't think they schemed this up and decided to do something heinous. They are young and it sounds like there was alcohol involved and it was late and night and blah blah blah it doesn't f***ing matter you can't have sex with someone without their consent and if they wake up the next morning and feel like they were forced to have sex without their consent they are free to report that to the police or whomever they want. And before I hear "oh so they can just wake up and change their mind and they get to ruin someone's life" or whatever the dumb response to that will be 1) that rarely is the case for a litany of reasons and 2) YES. If they feel like they were raped they shouldn't be made to feel like they can't or shouldn't say something because it might ruin the rapists life. It is not the victim's responsibility to make sure her case gets fully prosecuted and a conviction is obtained. Telling people when and how they can report a rape or what kind of rape is "legitimate" is why rapes are historically underreported.
If you get blackout drunk and have a sexual encounter but don't feel like you've been raped, you don't have to report anything. That's fine. Some people may do that and not care. Nothing wrong with that. If you get blackout drunk and have a sexual encounter and feel like you have been raped, you shouldn't be worried about reporting.
volnoir
Registered User
- Nov 13, 2015
- 294
- 407
Also sad to say, this type of stuff has been part of hockey culture for a long time as sickening as it is. Encouraged by coaches and staff, introduced by older players, all within a system that honours players for keeping their head down and their mouths shut. Hope there is justice served regardless of what Flyers players are involved.
philly_28
Valar Morghulis
- Apr 9, 2007
- 1,501
- 996
How are people surprised about how potentially ugly this will get? This was always about an alledged gang rape. It was always going to get very ugly.
Innocent until proven guilty, but if proven guilty, throw the book at them.
Let the next person who isn't a scholar of informed consent err on the side of caution and not take part in an (alledged) gang rape.
Innocent until proven guilty, but if proven guilty, throw the book at them.
Let the next person who isn't a scholar of informed consent err on the side of caution and not take part in an (alledged) gang rape.
Last edited:
6 years ago and was reported the very next day and investigated by the police right away....The cover up by Hockey Canada was the civil lawsuit because the girl's family threatened to sue and expose Hockey Canada for what happened even though the police didn't press charges. So this is far from clear one way or the other so those on their high horses should go pound salt until the case is tried....No one should be assuming innocence or guilt let the case play out instead of the high and mighty woke police automatically saying their guilty.
Oh that's right, we can't form an opinion on something unless we have all the info and a conviction. I forgot about that. I wonder if you'd be saying this if it was your wife/sister/mother/girlfriend who was the one involved?
Just curious to you and any of the other "we'll let's wait and see!" folks out there: what do you think the endgame is here for the girl if you don't believe her? You think she's having fun? Trying to make money? Protect her reputation? What's the point behind all this? What would make you be able to form an opinion? Only with a conviction? Signed confession? And please don't say "I didn't say I don't believe her!" because saying you need more information or want to see it pan out is the same thing as saying you don't believe her, even if you don't use the exact phrase "I don't believe her," the end result is the same. If I tell you I saw Bigfoot and you say you want to see the pictures before you form an opinion, that's because you don't believe me. If you tell a rape victim you want to see it play out in court before you form an opinion, that's because you don't believe them. And that's fine if you don't believe them, you aren't required to, but don't pretend like saying you want to see it play out in court is some moral high ground that you are taking over those who have formed an opinion. You've formed an opinion too: you don't believe the victim.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 49,818
- 21,836
Yeah, that's what really nails the coffin shut, if they didn't think they had done something wrong they don't try and cover their tracks - strong evidence of mens rea.
The whole thing stinks of some drunk kids trying to emulate something they saw on a porn site.
landsbergfan
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2018
- 6,808
- 24,257
hockeynormy
Registered User
- Oct 21, 2023
- 84
- 48
i'm all for being sex-positive but i do think the availability of porn to young men and the graphic nature of modern porn specifically has twisted entire generations of male perception of sex.
Embiid
This show is now rated "PG"
Porn unfortunately does alter the structure of the still developing brain or so the research shows. You act more impulsively and make more rash decisions apparently.
For adults with more developed brains...after around 25 yrs of age it has other effects especially with actual intimacy. Can desensitize you with a partner if you haven't been active in real life. Can make normal sex seem boring if too porn addicted.
I don't think porn has been conclusively correlated to more sexual violence or aggression. I think Japan has a lot of porn yet their younger people have no actual sex apparently.
I remember seeing a story about women in Egypt complaining about the government considering outlawing porn. A large majority were not in favor because they said men would engage in more sexual assaults like groping etc. They viewed it as more of an outlet for their perverts..
mercury
Registered User
"Not guilty," not "Innocent." And a not guilty verdict might be justice served.
mercury
Registered User
"Oh that's right, we can't form an opinion on something unless we have all the info and a conviction. I forgot about that. I wonder if you'd be saying this if it was your wife/sister/mother/girlfriend who was the one involved?"
Knowing someone personally =/= reading accusations online. And I was falsely accused by someone who was someone's daughter and girlfriend. In fact, she went along with the whole thing because someone in the college administration encouraged her to do so. Fortunately, after I spoke with the RA and told him that I didn't even kiss this girl, it went away.
"Just curious to you and any of the other 'we'll let's wait and see!' folks out there: what do you think the endgame is here for the girl if you don't believe her? You think she's having fun? Trying to make money? Protect her reputation?"
Happened to me.
"What's the point behind all this? What would make you be able to form an opinion? Only with a conviction? Signed confession?"
Much more evidence.
"And please don't say 'I didn't say I don't believe her!' because saying you need more information or want to see it pan out is the same thing as saying you don't believe her, even if you don't use the exact phrase 'I don't believe her,' the end result is the same."
Insane. Absurd. Evil.
"If I tell you I saw Bigfoot and you say you want to see the pictures before you form an opinion, that's because you don't believe me. If you tell a rape victim you want to see it play out in court before you form an opinion, that's because you don't believe them."
Being generally skeptical and wanting evidence is not the same as not believing someone.
"And that's fine if you don't believe them, you aren't required to, but don't pretend like saying you want to see it play out in court is some moral high ground that you are taking over those who have formed an opinion. You've formed an opinion too: you don't believe the victim."
Wrong, and that IS the moral high ground when compared to the immoral path you have chosen.
You REALLY need to take a hard look at yourself.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
A lot of the evidence is already out there. Are you ignoring it on purpose, or what?
mercury
Registered User
The videotape to document alleged consent? Fluids and DNA evidence? I haven't seen anything of the sort.
FlyerNutter
In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
Not that it doesn’t matter, but the West would be a much better place if the plebs faced concrete issues that pertain to their daily lives, and quality of life - with the same vigor.
Alas
Alas
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Hmmmm.
I hope you understand that your current strident anti-victim, pro-rapist stances aren't going to age well. There is nothing hasty about this. A microscope will be on everything. If charges are being brought, and it's taken this long, it's because the people investigating have been thorough and made sure because they know what they're digging into is going to be maximum controversy. Their careers will be on the line and they almost certainly know that.
Just because some women have lied does not make it reasonable to assume all are. We are not a court. We can look at what's out there and judge for ourselves. We here do not have to assume innocence. We are not jurors in a court of law. Refusing to do so in defense of the perpetrators when everything is pointing to badness is quite a bad idea. It will age poorly.
And again, we are not going to wage war upon rape reports here. Keep it on this case alone. Don't bring up any other situation because it has nothing to do with the facts here. Nothing that happened to you or to anyone else has anything to with with what has happened with this woman and the people accused. We aren't going to do the misogyny thing.
BillDineen
Former Flyer / Extinct Dinosaur Advisor
- Aug 9, 2009
- 9,454
- 8,282
The defense of players will include:
1- The consent video
2- Saying the crying in the shower when her mother found her was her embarrassment for what she accepted to do/regret for the consensual acts she engaged in
3- She pressed charges on the urging of her mother and filed the civil suit
4- Hockey Canada settled to make it go away
5- London Police did not press charges initially
Even if they are guilty, which seems most likely, good lawyers can get them off. That was the point I was trying to make
1- The consent video
2- Saying the crying in the shower when her mother found her was her embarrassment for what she accepted to do/regret for the consensual acts she engaged in
3- She pressed charges on the urging of her mother and filed the civil suit
4- Hockey Canada settled to make it go away
5- London Police did not press charges initially
Even if they are guilty, which seems most likely, good lawyers can get them off. That was the point I was trying to make
Seems like it will all come down to her appearance on the video and whether or the not the jury thinks she looks drunk and or scared. Unfortunately unless it’s obvious I think the players will get away with it but will likely never play in the NHL again.
