Nikishin Go Boom
Russian Bulldozer Consultent
- Jul 31, 2017
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Friedman: Carolina is interested in JT Miller
- Thread starter UrbanImpact
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Miller has 46 pts in 52 games, How is it not trending well? On pace for 73 points in a circus year in Van.
He is getting paid 8 mil in his next contract, its not like the Canucks paid him off for his 99 point season. If that was the case hed be closer to 10 mil AAV.
Its fair to say that the contract wont age well in the last 2-3 years but to say its not trending well is comically wrong.
BKarchitect
Registered User
KK is not comparable in scale and more importantly the years of the player's career that the deal takes up. The KK contract may not end up good but it's a bet on growth of a 23 year-old and it's also cheap to get out of.
Burns has 3 years of commitment not 7+.
The cost of getting out of either of those deals should they turn sour isn't at the same level.
A near PPG player apparently isn't trending well, meanwhile a player who's never shown anything more than being a dime a dozen bottom 6 forward will magically improve by being gifted top line minutes? What is this nonsense?
That is ridiculous logic. They are a win now team, they gave up assets and brought him in to contribute now. Which is why they started him in the top 6 last year, and tried him there again this year.
I mean if the plan was to have him play 12-14 mins a night and then he break out when you core has left for other markets, I don't know what to tell you.
I agree they won't pay anyone to take him, but his not being a middle 6 C today leaves a huge in your lineup, that need to be filled this TDL.
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
- Sep 6, 2006
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Sorry, but that's revisionist history.
The 1st and 2nd round pick were the items that had value. I'm not debating that one bit.
The 4th round picks probably had less value than 4th round picks today. Those picks became Reto Berra and Cade Fairchild, which is what you got in general with 4th round picks.
The older players didn't have any value back then. Trust me, I was a Canes fan and for a couple of them I said "Who?" Boulerice, Zigamanus, Nordgren and Kolanos were completely known entities and weren't going to be full time NHL players. They were throw-ins at best. Acting like they were otherwise at the time is revisionist history, they weren't, trust me.
Regardless, it wasn't "a lot of futures" which is what you claimed. It was a couple of good futures (late 1st and 2nd round pick), some mid-late round picks and a bunch of AHL fodder.
I'm not debating what a trade for Miller would entail or not entail, just disagreeing with your assessment that it was a lot of futures.
Yes, they were true rentals.
As far as it not being able to be done anymore, Why can't it be done? Did something change in the CBA to prevent it? (serious question as I don't know).
Peen
Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
- Oct 6, 2013
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The latter is where I think you have to make an opportunity cost decision on how serious you are about recognizing a short term window (3-5 years), and what the acquisition cost is of players as good as JT.
I keep looking at what else is theoretically available and the acquisition cost, and I can see why a team would talk themselves into it.
Because he's barely got more even-strength points than Luke Schenn and is a defensive liability.
If you want a guy that racks up PP points and secondary assists, then Miller is your man. For $8M AAV, you probably want a guy that can at least somewhat be useful at 5v5.
I think he's tradeable, but he's not returning anything of value back.
I don't think you can trade a player mid contract and retain said contract after July 1st. Maybe someone else can clarify when that happened, but now contract and player move together.
Frankie Blueberries
Dream Team
- Jan 27, 2016
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Carolina is built as a "win all the time" organization. Not a win-now. Hence why they let Hamilton and Trocheck walk.
$4.8 million is 3rd line money so I would guess their plan is to have him eventually replace an aging Jordan Staal. If you think Carolina's master plan was to gamble their Cup chances on a 22 year old $4.8 million player then I don't know what to tell you.
If it makes you feel better you can squeeze your eyes shut and imagine that Necas is the 2nd line Center. Carolina plays mostly positionless hockey in the offensive zone and Necas is almost a PPG player. In the defensive zone KK has been good. Lowest GA/60 and xGA/60 among Carolina's centers.
sting101
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2012
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what are you talking about. JT Miller is 38th in the entire NHL for forwards at ES scoring since 20/21
Must be the Pearson Boeser line mates carrying his ass lol
He has 19 even strength points this season. Schenn has 17.
lmao, a true accomplishment. 19>18
Math must be hard for you. 46 total points. 22 PPP, 0 SHP so it would be 46-22 based off NHL.com stats, which is 24 ESP.
Also if you go here:
J.T. Miller Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com
Checkout the latest stats of J.T. Miller. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com
www.hockey-reference.com
it will break down better than nhl.com where is shows 10 EVG and 14 EVA = 24 EVP.
- Jan 24, 2007
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This seems like the logic that lead Vancouver to completely change gears and keep rather than trade Miller last offseason. Maybe you're right, IDK. In any case they now seem perplexed that the number of teams willing to trade for Miller (in-season at least) is basically null. Some teams simply are not going to add that salary, and would have zero interest in 7 years of Miller at close to market rate even if it's a savings of like 1M AAV a year or whatever.
It's 24 even strength points, but only 18 of the 24 are at the most common ES play, 5x5.Math must be hard for you. 46 total points. 22 PPP, 0 SHP so it would be 46-22 based off NHL.com stats, which is 24 ESP.
Also if you go here:
J.T. Miller Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com
Checkout the latest stats of J.T. Miller. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com
it will break down better than nhl.com where is shows 10 EVG and 14 EVA = 24 EVP.
So you are correct about his ES scoring, but the 5x5 scoring is a better indicator of how he will do in the most common ES play moving forward, especially in the playoffs.
Miller at his contract is relatively good value compared to what he'd get on the open market. The problem is those contracts just don't have any trade value, I agree with you there. His trade value was much higher as a pending UFA
Then so will his past 4 years which shows he is an excellent 5v5 contributor (well above top 50 in the league) is an even better indicator than what is going on this year. Miller is an elite player. He is just inconsistent when it comes to back checking after making a mistake.
They are built as a win all the time in the reg season, team, to be clear. And I'm aware they let their big name FA's walk, which is why I see them as win now. They won't be able to backfill their top players forever, and the model has not produced in the playoffs - winning a round a year with a core as good as this one is not a good outcome.
Listen I think they have a fantastic team and I expect them to pick up a C for the playoffs, because squint all you want, there is a big gap there and I don't see a deep run with that C group.
Lol, no. If you're gonna make fun of my "math", you might want to do it right.Math must be hard for you. 46 total points. 22 PPP, 0 SHP so it would be 46-22 based off NHL.com stats, which is 24 ESP.
Also if you go here:
J.T. Miller Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com
Checkout the latest stats of J.T. Miller. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com
it will break down better than nhl.com where is shows 10 EVG and 14 EVA = 24 EVP.
This is even-strength, per Evolving Hockey. You're throwing in points he has with an empty net as even-strength.
Frankie Blueberries
Dream Team
- Jan 27, 2016
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Can mods amend the thread title? Friedman said Carolina was interested last off-season as part of a 3-way trade with Calgary and Tkachuk (likely involving Carolina receiving Tkachuk, and Calgary with Miller), and that he doesn’t see it happening now. This thread title is a farce
Unlike you I am doing it right. As I have shown. You're now nit-picking stats. Facts are he has 10 goals and 14 assists at even strength. Maybe 5v5 stats look different. but we have been talking about even strength, not 5v5.
