Carolina - 50 picks since 2019

[OKR]

Are you sure?

20,21 and 22 they finished 1st in their division, so yes.

 

[inthewings]

There are 32 teams in the league. People are going to have to stop viewing success as binary (Cup or no Cup). Carolina is a great franchise.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I still can't believe they lost out to NJ's offer for Timo, Timo would have been an amazing fit with that group.

There are rumors that Timo requested a trade to New Jersey because of the huge Swiss presence on that team (specifically Hischier, Siegenthaler, and Schmid), and that the bidding war was mainly there to up the package that New Jersey needed to give. Carolina may never have had much of a shot there if Grier's goal was to accommodate Meier's desires.

 

[AvroArrow]

There are 32 teams in the league. People are going to have to stop viewing success as binary (Cup or no Cup). Carolina is a great franchise.

Such an under rated comment ^

 

[tarheelhockey]

20,21 and 22 they finished 1st in their division, so yes.

* and 23

Four consecutive division titles is the current league leader.

edit: nope

 

[Toby91ca]

* and 23

Four consecutive division titles is the current league leader.

Am I stupid or just living in bizzaro world currently?

Edit....I don't follow Carolina at all really, so easy for me to not notice, but how does a Carolina fan actually think they've won four consecutive division titles?

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

* and 23

Four consecutive division titles is the current league leader.

Canes/Avs are active leaders with 3 straight division titles...

 

[tarheelhockey]

Am I stupid or just living in bizzaro world currently?

Edit....I don't follow Carolina at all really, so easy for me to not notice, but how does a Carolina fan actually think they've won four consecutive division titles?

Canes/Avs are active leaders with 3 straight division titles...

My mistake, I just took "20, 21, and 22" at face value, and added '23 as a fourth. I knew Colorado had only won 3 in a row so concluded that 4 would lead the league. It didn't occur to me to question that the claim of a 2020 division title was inaccurate.

 

[dirtydanglez]

Huh? The Oilers didn't have a shot against the Avs.

no one did.

To pile on the stupidity of "no Cup = fail" responses, the context of this thread is that they've made 50 picks since 2019. You don't pick 30 guys in rounds 4-7 thinking that they're going to win you a Cup in the next 2-3 seasons. We're talking about a long-term strategy that they embraced a very short time ago, no shit it hasn't immediately paid off.

i think you missed the point. people are suggesting they should be trading away more picks to bolster their roster for a cup run.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

My mistake, I just took "20, 21, and 22" at face value, and added '23 as a fourth. I knew Colorado had only won 3 in a row so concluded that 4 would lead the league. It didn't occur to me to question that the claim of a 2020 division title was inaccurate.

Yep fair enough, '19-20 was actually the worst season of the past 5 from the Canes, ended early due to covid then we had the bubble play-in and playoffs but even before that the Canes were fighting tooth and nail just for a wildcard spot, with the Ayres game actually being of critical importance in the standings at the time. Also while technically beating the Rags in the play-in round counts as a series win, that's the only year of the past 5 that the Canes haven't won at least 1 best of 7 playoff series.

 

[Toby91ca]

20,21 and 22 they finished 1st in their division, so yes.

Are you really, really sure?

 

[OKR]

Are you really, really sure?

Did they not?

 

[Toby91ca]

Did they not?

Ummmm....no? 2020 - 4th.

 

[Fatass]

Yes lots of pucks but how many Cups during this time? It seems like the Canes are satisfied with being a good club that just is missing the couple key TDL adds to get over the jump.

 

[krutovsdonut]

How Carolina compares to a sample of how other successful teams approached it after making the playoffs the first time:

Team	Years	R1	R2	R3	SUM	R4	R5	R6	R7	SUM	TOTAL
Pittsburgh	07-11	4	3	4	11	5	6	6	2	19	30
Boston	08-12	5	4	4	13	4	4	5	5	18	31
Washington	08-12	6	3	3	12	6	5	5	6	22	34
Chicago	09-13	5	9	6	20	5	5	6	7	23	43
Los Angeles	10-14	3	5	4	12	5	6	6	5	22	34
St. Louis	12-16	3	8	3	14	7	6	5	4	22	36
Tampa	14-18	3	8	6	17	5	3	7	6	21	38
Toronto	17-21	3	5	4	12	7	5	6	7	25	37
Colorado	18-22	5	2	5	12	2	4	4	4	14	26
Carolina	19-23	3	9	8	20	8	6	8	8	30	50

The Canes have amassed a volume of picks by (1) only dabbling in the rental market as a contender (2) not being afraid to trade players for futures (Skinner, Faulk, Nedeljkovic, Bean, DeAngelo) and (3) trading down regularly.

How is HF feeling about this strategy? The Canes continue to have a top half type prospect pool despite late 1st round records, based on volume. However, they routinely get bad grades at the deadline as their inaction is seen as preventing ultimate success.

50 picks over 5 years is 15 picks above the baseline. they are actually down 2 firsts but up 4 seconds and 3 thirds. the majority of extra picks are in late rounds where they are playing long odds.

overall it's interesting and worth studying. the canes are probably a better petri dish than the yotes for the benefits of overloading on draft picks given how bad the yotes seem to be at drafting and developing players.

questions we need to ask over a slighly longer time period than this one would be:

how does the canes draft hit rate compare to other roughly equal competitive teams with less draft picks?

are they seeing any statistically impressive results in any particular rounds due to this overloading?

are contract limit management issues causing them to pass on signing ufas or their own drafted prospects or reclamation projects so as to yield no net advantage from this strategy?

 

[Rich Nixon]

i think you missed the point. people are suggesting they should be trading away more picks to bolster their roster for a cup run.

That's what they're doing. In the longer term. They're seemingly trying to build a ton of organizational depth and then add quality at a later point. They have a lot of young talent and can take that approach. They're still a really good team every season.

It's not like they don't sign free agents or make trades. Do folks think they should just be blowing more draft capital on shit in general? That is a tried and true strategy, the Cup winner is usually the team that trades the most draft picks in the preceding year.

And yeah there were absolutely some glib, no context "no Cups lol" responses that weren't making the specific point you seem to be.

 

[emptyNedder]

The Canes had 4 players on sweetheart deals, and still never made a Cup final. Imo, 4 years ago, that team was set up to at least make a final, if not win a Cup.

I think a lot of casual fans (and even some diehard Caniacs) don't consider this. Francis built a team that could be a long-term success. In fact the Canes under two previous philosophies (GMs) were arguably the best drafting team in the NHL. From 2012-2017 Carolina acquired all these players after the 1st round: Aho, Slavin, Pesce, Luostarinen, Roy, McGinn, Geekie, Foegele., Lorentz Three top players and six serviceable NHLers.


When the 2nd overall went to them they had a lineup ready to contend. The cornerstones of the success the past 5 years were already in place.

The coaching and tending have improved, but it is hard to argue the draft philosophy from 2018-2023 is going to be more successful than it was prior.

 

[jiggy35]

Edmonton’s approach is the polar opposite but is unfortunately the model attempting to be replicated league wide (sucking hard and amassing maximum 1oa and top 5 picks).

I admire Carolina’s approach and do think what they have could turn into a cup winner in the next few years.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Edmonton’s approach is the polar opposite but is unfortunately the model attempting to be replicated league wide (sucking hard and amassing maximum 1oa and top 5 picks).

I admire Carolina’s approach and do think what they have could turn into a cup winner in the next few years.

?

Carolina's only Cup came on the back of Eric Staal (2nd overall), Cory Stillman (6th overall), Rod the Bod (9th). Those were their top 3 playoff scorers. They haven't exactly broken the mold of needing to draft high to win it all.

The current group is good, and maybe that's enough in Carolina (I can't say, not my market), but Slavin and Pesce deals are both up soon, and winning will get harder when those two get their raises.

The homerun Nikishin pick looks like it should soften the blow, at least. I like the big Orlov signing.

The larger threat comes from NJ, who looks ready to leapfrog them, and I think NJ will be the top team in that division for quite a while.

 

[tarheelhockey]

In fact the Canes under two previous philosophies (GMs) were arguably the best drafting team in the NHL. From 2012-2017 Carolina acquired all these players after the 1st round: Aho, Slavin, Pesce, Luostarinen, Roy, McGinn, Geekie, Foegele., Lorentz Three top players and six serviceable NHLers.

The problem is their first round picks during that same timeframe: Lindholm, Fleury, Hanifin, Bean, Gauthier, Necas

Nothing really wrong with the Lindholm and Necas picks, but they whiffed on top talent in order to take Fleury and Hanifin, and especially Bean. They’d arguably have been better off if they had simply made the right call on their 1sts and not gotten anything in rounds 2-7.

 

[OKR]

Ummmm....no? 2020 - 4th.

That’s 2019-20, they finished first in 20,21,22

 

[Ncit3]

And they have never been close to winning a single Cup. Edmonton atleast has had a legit chance a few times but ran into the eventual Cup winner. Carolina is a RS juggernaut and that’s about it. Paper tigers.

Edmonton did play the eventual cup winner Colorado Avalanche. But it wasn't even competitive. They got dumpstered by a true contender. I'd have been more concerned playing any Carolina team of the last 5 years than any Edmonton team.

 

[DS7]

Canes are a model franchise in staying competitive while stocking for the future. We are the anti-canes in Vancouver, as an earlier poster stated.

 

[LeProspector]

They always get amazing post draft grades but I feel the results aren’t amazing

 

[Negan4Coach]

The problem is their first round picks during that same timeframe: Lindholm, Fleury, Hanifin, Bean, Gauthier, Necas

Nothing really wrong with the Lindholm and Necas picks, but they whiffed on top talent in order to take Fleury and Hanifin, and especially Bean. They’d arguably have been better off if they had simply made the right call on their 1sts and not gotten anything in rounds 2-7.

Glad you brought this up. Impressed with the later round drafting but those 1st round picks were disgusting except maybe Lindholm. At the end of the day a bunch of other teams have multiple superstars that score 40+ goals per year and the Canes simply don't. But then again some of those teams haven't seen a whole lotta post season success either

This team seems to be built on the philosophy of maximizing overall "value", building a solid, weakness free team that will reliably make the playoffs year in and year out and then once there, you never know...