Carolina - 50 picks since 2019

[jetsforever]

Wow, good job by their front office in keeping picks

 

[tarheelhockey]

This is a great strategy for staying buoyant for a long time but at some point you need to tactically use a big player acquisition as make a statement to the roster and/or to inject them with the confidence they can get it done.
They run the risk of wasting the primes of their top players on 1st/2nd round exits if they don't go and make a Jack Eichel/Matt Tkachuk type of deal eventually imo.
That being said I think the Carolina model* is ideal, and they haven't exhausted the above option yet, so they still have some outs to push the needle if they want.

For what it’s worth, they’ve been in pretty heavily on guys like Tkachuk and Meier. I think there’s a willingness to make the big dramatic move, like they did with Kotkaniemi and Burns.

With this many prospects now in the system, I wonder if they feel more comfortable starting to throw in that extra value-add to be sure they don’t come in second place for the next big trade target.

 

[zoodani]

People who say no cup = fail forget how important sustained success is to a small market. This is the first time the Canes have consistently been good year after year. Sure it's disappointing to come close and not win at all, but I'll take it over the prior years where they rarely made the playoffs, but IF they did, they went far, then followed it up with 10 years of futility.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

I like their strategy. I know some will say that they haven't won a cup with it. But who wins a cup because they go get a rental at the deadline? Carolina's strategy at least keeps an eye on the future, and can provide good depth if developing the prospects well.

 

[PocketNines]

They are a lot like the Blues of the 2010s in how the base was built. Lot of picks in the 20s. When the Blues can see they aren't real contenders they sell. One year they sold Stastny at the deadline then went on to make the playoffs. The difference is that they also go for it more than the Canes. They will sell the first and another first rounder (Thompson) if they see the opportunity. Canes would have not pulled the ROR trigger. They'd have kept Thompson, which has its advocates as well. I know what the poll result would be in Blues fan nation if you asked do we regret that trade.

Recently, it's clearly the exception when a team wins the Cup without trading a first rounder during the 12 months prior to that Cup. Canes are pretty clearly determined to win the Cup as such an exception and it's not working out thus far, but this squad hasn't culminated yet. TBD.

I watched every Canes playoff game this year and every possible break went to Florida. The pure one-sided brutality of the puck luck was one of the more amazing circumstances to unfold in recent playoffs. While far, far less fortunate, I thought they were better than Florida but got goalied for one harsh series. That's hockey though. Carolina is a team that's still right there. The walkover in the Cup Final showed we got robbed of Vegas-Carolina.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

How Carolina compares to a sample of how other successful teams approached it after making the playoffs the first time:

Team	Years	R1	R2	R3	SUM	R4	R5	R6	R7	SUM	TOTAL
Pittsburgh	07-11	4	3	4	11	5	6	6	2	19	30
Boston	08-12	5	4	4	13	4	4	5	5	18	31
Washington	08-12	6	3	3	12	6	5	5	6	22	34
Chicago	09-13	5	9	6	20	5	5	6	7	23	43
Los Angeles	10-14	3	5	4	12	5	6	6	5	22	34
St. Louis	12-16	3	8	3	14	7	6	5	4	22	36
Tampa	14-18	3	8	6	17	5	3	7	6	21	38
Toronto	17-21	3	5	4	12	7	5	6	7	25	37
Colorado	18-22	5	2	5	12	2	4	4	4	14	26
Carolina	19-23	3	9	8	20	8	6	8	8	30	50

The Canes have amassed a volume of picks by (1) only dabbling in the rental market as a contender (2) not being afraid to trade players for futures (Skinner, Faulk, Nedeljkovic, Bean, DeAngelo) and (3) trading down regularly.

How is HF feeling about this strategy? The Canes continue to have a top half type prospect pool despite late 1st round records, based on volume. However, they routinely get bad grades at the deadline as their inaction is seen as preventing ultimate success.

They are the model for keeping their draft picks and using them on draft day. They are not model when it comes to really paying what it takes to be a champion. They are always good, but when will they be great?

 

[EverTheCynic]

And they have never been close to winning a single Cup. Edmonton atleast has had a legit chance a few times but ran into the eventual Cup winner. Carolina is a RS juggernaut and that’s about it. Paper tigers.

Edmonton hasn't won a game outside of the second round in McDavid's entire 8 year career so far.

Wut

 

[edog37]

And they have never been close to winning a single Cup. Edmonton atleast has had a legit chance a few times but ran into the eventual Cup winner. Carolina is a RS juggernaut and that’s about it. Paper tigers.

Funny considering how McMuffin can’t even lead his team to any sort of championship regular season or otherwise.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

People who say no cup = fail forget how important sustained success is to a small market. This is the first time the Canes have consistently been good year after year. Sure it's disappointing to come close and not win at all, but I'll take it over the prior years where they rarely made the playoffs, but IF they did, they went far, then followed it up with 10 years of futility.

I'm surprised that people who say 'no cup=fail' can successfully feed themselves.

Imagine watching a sport (you know, a diversion) and deciding the if you're not the 1/32 teams who holds up the cup it's not just a disappointment, but a failure?

What's the rest of your life like if that's your mentality?

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

Not arguing with what you’re saying at all but the fact is Edmonton had better betting odds to win the Cup than Carolina the entire postseason until they ran into the juggernaut Knights (even then Edmonton was favoured going into g1). Context is important here. Bookies never thought Carolina had a real chance.

Just take the L dude.

 

[The Nuge]

This is a terrible argument.

As for the rest of it, people who live in glass houses shouldn't undress, or something.

I mean, Marchessault literally said

“It has to be the hardest matchup we had. Like, you had a two-goal lead, and you were never safe. That was just an elite team. The thing is, we had to be disciplined. I’ve never seen anything like it,”

He also admitted they got lucky that the league decided to suspend Nurse and Pietrangelo equally.

I’m not sure I’d say it’s a terrible argument

People who say no cup = fail forget how important sustained success is to a small market. This is the first time the Canes have consistently been good year after year. Sure it's disappointing to come close and not win at all, but I'll take it over the prior years where they rarely made the playoffs, but IF they did, they went far, then followed it up with 10 years of futility.

100%. It’s why I always defend the Sharks. They were an extremely successful franchise for the last 20+ years. It’s not easy to be near the top year after year over a long span like that. These teams that are perennially near the top but can’t quite get it done don’t deserve nearly the criticism they get.

 

[Flair Hay]

According to betting odds we had a better chance than Carolina, and that was the point. But hey, I guess those betting companies know less than you.

Comparing the two franchises just doesn't seem fair at all. One is an efficient, disciplined organization that has slowly built up a great program.

We know why Edmonton is relevant, it's not their team building skills...

 

[Bcap88]

Carolina is like the kid who makes their communion money last for 30 plus years

 

[ps241]

I really like it. They are bucking convention and its bold.

They are a small market team and they have a crystal clear vision and plan and they actually follow it. Not the typical NHL owner wtih ADD impulse control challenges. I wish this is how the Jets would approach it too. Since the new owner came in and listens to Tulsky (my guess) they have decided short term rentals to ”win now” is not good asset managment. They feel that more draft picks is a more functional approach. The one wrinkle that I noticed or challenge to the process is the lack of high end draft slots and even 1st round inventory. Going back to 2019 Canes took Suzuki 28th, then they peaked in 2020 with the Jarvis pick at #13, 2021 no 1st round picks, 2022 no 1st round pick, and 2013 Nadeua who was 30th OA. Without digging in too deep I assume those have been used to acquire higher end non rental talent in trades.

I love the idea for their market, or any small market, and I am jealous.

 

[Svechhammer]

I really like it. They are bucking convention and its bold.

They are a small market team and they have a crystal clear vision and plan and they actually follow it. Not the typical NHL owner wtih ADD impulse control challenges. I wish this is how the Jets would approach it too. Since the new owner came in and listens to Tulsky (my guess) they have decided short term rentals to ”win now” is not good asset managment. They feel that more draft picks is a more functional approach. The one wrinkle that I noticed or challenge to the process is the lack of high end draft slots and even 1st round inventory. Going back to 2019 Canes took Suzuki 28th, then they peaked in 2020 with the Jarvis pick at #13, 2021 no 1st round picks, 2022 no 1st round pick, and 2013 Nadeua who was 30th OA. Without digging in too deep I assume those have been used to acquire higher end non rental talent in trades.

I love the idea for their market, or any small market, and I am jealous.

I mean the bucking of the trend is throughout the entire makeup of the team. The team prioritizes keeping the puck out of their own net, and its really hard to argue they aren't exceedingly good at that, given their goalies won the Jennings Trophy in 2022 and had playoff numbers this past year that were only overshadowed by Bobrovsky going superhuman. And they're doing this during a time when the rest of the league is paying an absolute premium on hoarding offense at the expense of defense. Toronto, Edmonton, and heck even New Jersey all have great to elite offensive attacks, but will continue to be undone because they are below average as a team in their own zone, and its to the point where even an elite goalie probably won't solve their issues. On the other hand, Carolina balances their defensive play with a smothering offense attack that only fails because they have one less pure goal scorer than is needed, a problem they have been trying to fix for a couple years now.

 

[Rich Nixon]

To pile on the stupidity of "no Cup = fail" responses, the context of this thread is that they've made 50 picks since 2019. You don't pick 30 guys in rounds 4-7 thinking that they're going to win you a Cup in the next 2-3 seasons. We're talking about a long-term strategy that they embraced a very short time ago, no shit it hasn't immediately paid off.

 

[YippieKaey]

And they have never been close to winning a single Cup. Edmonton atleast has had a legit chance a few times but ran into the eventual Cup winner. Carolina is a RS juggernaut and that’s about it. Paper tigers.

Carolina has won the Cup dude.

 

[YippieKaey]

If you’re going to use the words horseshit, please tell me what year Carolina was close to winning a cup. They are supposedly the smartest team in the league yet their results suggest they are on par with about 8-10 other teams

Im not even a Canes fan but you're just not up to speed with the facts:

carolina hurricanes stanley cup - Google Suche

 

[Guttersniped]

Not arguing with what you’re saying at all but the fact is Edmonton had better betting odds to win the Cup than Carolina the entire postseason until they ran into the juggernaut Knights (even then Edmonton was favoured going into g1). Context is important here. Bookies never thought Carolina had a real chance.

I missed the bragging about Stanley Cup odds lol.

When more people bet on the team the odds get worse, any odds to win the Stanley Cup reflect the team’s popularity too.

 

[Guttersniped]

Carolina has won the Cup dude.

Im not even a Canes fan but you're just not up to speed with the facts:

carolina hurricanes stanley cup - Google Suche

Considering who they beat in the SCF, I assume @Connor McConnor knows about this, unless he only became an Oilers fan after McDavid got there.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Considering who they beat in the SCF, I assume @Connor McConnor knows about this, unless he only became an Oilers fan after McDavid got there.

If you follow back the thread and attributed quotes, he's clearly talking about the last five seasons.

This is why no one complained about it at the time (correctly), but now we're getting people jumping all over three weeks later.

Edit: I guess it's just one dude, but he felt the need to "well actually" twice in a row for some reason.

 

[Discipline Daddy]

I really like it. They are bucking convention and its bold.

They are a small market team and they have a crystal clear vision and plan and they actually follow it. Not the typical NHL owner wtih ADD impulse control challenges. I wish this is how the Jets would approach it too. Since the new owner came in and listens to Tulsky (my guess) they have decided short term rentals to ”win now” is not good asset managment. They feel that more draft picks is a more functional approach. The one wrinkle that I noticed or challenge to the process is the lack of high end draft slots and even 1st round inventory. Going back to 2019 Canes took Suzuki 28th, then they peaked in 2020 with the Jarvis pick at #13, 2021 no 1st round picks, 2022 no 1st round pick, and 2013 Nadeua who was 30th OA. Without digging in too deep I assume those have been used to acquire higher end non rental talent in trades.

I love the idea for their market, or any small market, and I am jealous.

Just a point of clarification here, since the Canes started making the playoffs in 2019, they have been picking generally in the high 20s every year. The Canes drafted 28th in 2019 b/c they made the 3rd round. In 2020, we gave our worse first for Brady Skjei (19th overall), having acquired Toronto's 1st before that season for the Marleau buyout. B/c of the COVID playoffs, Toronto missed the play-in round and it ended up being #13 overall, netting us the pick since it wasn't top 10. Otherwise Toronto would probably pick around #20. We got lucky. Then, we dealt the 2021 1st rounder (27th overall) to Nashville to trade down into the early 2nd round and pick up Scott Morrow and then another 2nd. In 2022, we "traded" that 1st (ended up 26th overall) before the season in the Kotkaniemi offer sheet.

So every year since our playoff run, our first has been 28th, 19th, 27th, 26th, and 30th. We've dealt three of these firsts, but all for long term assets (4 years of Skjei, two 2nds, and Kotkaniemi).

The Canes try for boom/bust home run swings at nearly every draft pick. Nadeau was a BCHL player and Scott Morrow was a Minnesota high school player. The most conventional 1st rounder probably was in 2019 when we took Suzuki, who unfortunately had a devastating eye injury the year after we drafted him which took him over a year to get back on the ice, and might have derailed his career.

A more recent trend is that the Canes have been taking tons of Russian players lately, probably due to increased scouting (thanks Sergei Samsonov) and also seeing a "market inefficiency". The Canes are not afraid to draft players who have a perceived diminished chance of coming over to North America. In the Karmanos era the Canes drafted like one Russian in the first, Igor Knyazev, who busted, and then he publicly announced he wouldn't draft Russians again.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

The Canes had 4 players on sweetheart deals, and still never made a Cup final. Imo, 4 years ago, that team was set up to at least make a final, if not win a Cup.

Being good is always better than being bad, but for some reason that group never gets any flack for coming up short, and I think it's only going to get more difficult as Aho, TT, Slavin, Pesce and soon Jarvis all need new contracts.

I think they should have gone all in the last 2 years. I think they would have come out of it with a Cup if they added depth scoring to their forward group. I am not 100% sold on Bunting producing as well as he did in Toronto, not sure how much that moves the needle. I thought they would have gone hard after a Bertuzzi or Barbashev type. I still can't believe they lost out to NJ's offer for Timo, Timo would have been an amazing fit with that group.

 

[Toby91ca]

This is such a stupid thing to say. They’ve finished 1st in their division every year since 2019, 31 teams fail to win a Cup every year.

It’s clearly working so..

Are you sure?

 

[ps241]

Just a point of clarification here, since the Canes started making the playoffs in 2019, they have been picking generally in the high 20s every year. The Canes drafted 28th in 2019 b/c they made the 3rd round. In 2020, we gave our worse first for Brady Skjei (19th overall), having acquired Toronto's 1st before that season for the Marleau buyout. B/c of the COVID playoffs, Toronto missed the play-in round and it ended up being #13 overall, netting us the pick since it wasn't top 10. Otherwise Toronto would probably pick around #20. We got lucky. Then, we dealt the 2021 1st rounder (27th overall) to Nashville to trade down into the early 2nd round and pick up Scott Morrow and then another 2nd. In 2022, we "traded" that 1st (ended up 26th overall) before the season in the Kotkaniemi offer sheet.

So every year since our playoff run, our first has been 28th, 19th, 27th, 26th, and 30th. We've dealt three of these firsts, but all for long term assets (4 years of Skjei, two 2nds, and Kotkaniemi).

The Canes try for boom/bust home run swings at nearly every draft pick. Nadeau was a BCHL player and Scott Morrow was a Minnesota high school player. The most conventional 1st rounder probably was in 2019 when we took Suzuki, who unfortunately had a devastating eye injury the year after we drafted him which took him over a year to get back on the ice, and might have derailed his career.

A more recent trend is that the Canes have been taking tons of Russian players lately, probably due to increased scouting (thanks Sergei Samsonov) and also seeing a "market inefficiency". The Canes are not afraid to draft players who have a perceived diminished chance of coming over to North America. In the Karmanos era the Canes drafted like one Russian in the first, Igor Knyazev, who busted, and then he publicly announced he wouldn't draft Russians again.

Thanks for the detailed reply. Very interesting