Player Discussion Carey Price - Moving Home Edition

[BenchBrawl]

I didn't watch them in there prime so I can't really rely but Brodeur was getting what ? 15-20 shoot by game ? Way harder for a guy like Price (I think Hasek was the same case) when you receive ton of really good scoring chance

Price and Hasek were nothing alike though. Price was technical perfection and was a great puckhandler like Brodeur. Like Hasek, Price struggled with injuries, but it'sn ot clear that he needed to be 100% to play like it was rumored for Hasek. Meanwhile Hasek's style was athletic and instinctive to the extreme. Like a much better Tim Thomas. He would challenge shooters.

Brodeur getting fewer shots is a double-edged sword: Moving less can also lead to injuries from not being warmed up. Also, Brodeur himself was a big reason why he didn't get as many shot, because he was the greatest of all-time at picking up dump n chase pucks and passing it to his players. They made a rule for him ffs.

 

[Adriatic]

Hasek had a great peak but he lacked a very important quality for a goalie: Toughness / durability. He was always injured at the worst of times or refused to play when he didn't feel 100%. Contrast this with Martin Brodeur, someone whose peak wasn't as high but who gave you very above-average goaltending for 70 games a year and always healthy in the playoffs.

I much rather an above average workhorse goalie than a high peak goalie made of glass.

Hasek played 70+ games exactly 1 season in his career. Brodeur did it for 12 seasons. I'd much rather pick Brodeur for my franchise than Hasek. Plus Brodeur was the greatest puckhandler among goalies, like a 3rd defenseman.

Brodeur was a freak though and also played behind probably one of the best defensive teams ever in hockey. Devils often kept shots under 20 in that era. Patrick Roy never played 70 games, you're gonna say he's not durable too?? I don't think playing 70 games a year should be the barometer. For the most part of his career once Hasek got a chance to be a #1 goalie I would say he was pretty durable and remember he became a #1 very late in his career, pretty sure he was in his late 20's. They just didn't have the same career path. Obviously when when you get to late 30's that is a different story, I don't really judge goalies like that. I prefer to judge by the prime of their careers and I don't think I've witnessed a better prime than Hasek, never seen a goalie dominate the position like Hasek was able to without being on a dominant team.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I found a hockey news ranking with Sawchuk ranked 9th, as the highest goalie from 2008 or 2009 it seems. I'm going to assume that's the list you're refering to?

If so - that list also had Dominik Hasek ranked 95th...which invalidates the whole list in my opinion, and makes it a complete joke

No issue if some are high on Sawchuk - but usually both Roy and Hasek are easily ahead by majority.

Keep in mind that list was made in 98. Hasek was still playing as was Jagr and others.

And I put that list out there not as ‘proof’ of anything but to provide some context on how highly regarded Sawchuk was.

Personally I’d say Hasek was probably the best goalie ever. He’s only player who came within a hair of winning a cup almost entirely by himself on a sad sack team. I thought Price might have a shot but we got smoked by powerhouse Tampa.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Vézina was often mentioned as the best goalie of his generation, so claiming he was never the best in the league*/world is a stretch.

That said, I'm fine if someone wants to put Price over him. But Vézina was definitely in the same caliber of goalie.

I don’t think Vezina was ever the best goalie of his generation. Clint Benedict (a flopped ala Hasek) was consistently better and it was something like a four team league.

I’d put Price ahead of Vezina.

But it speaks to the history of the Habs that we have guys like Vezina and Durnan and maybe Price who don’t crack the top three.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Hasek had a great peak but he lacked a very important quality for a goalie: Toughness / durability. He was always injured at the worst of times or refused to play when he didn't feel 100%. Contrast this with Martin Brodeur, someone whose peak wasn't as high but who gave you very above-average goaltending for 70 games a year and always healthy in the playoffs.

I much rather an above average workhorse goalie than a high peak goalie made of glass.

Hasek played 70+ games exactly 1 season in his career. Brodeur did it for 12 seasons. I'd much rather pick Brodeur for my franchise than Hasek. Plus Brodeur was the greatest puckhandler among goalies, like a 3rd defenseman.

Hasek played behind a pop gun team most of his career. He didn’t have Stevens protecting him. And the play was usually in his end.

Brodeur and Roy had insanely good tough defensive teams in front of them for most of their careers. Great goalies but they didn’t play behind Buffalo or a Therrien coached Montreal. Brodeur didn’t get run because if you tried it, you’d get killed.

Should we blame Price for getting run by Kreider? I don’t think so.

 

[bobholly39]

Keep in mind that list was made in 98. Hasek was still playing as was Jagr and others.

And I put that list out there not as ‘proof’ of anything but to provide some context on how highly regarded Sawchuk was.

Personally I’d say Hasek was probably the best goalie ever. He’s only player who came within a hair of winning a cup almost entirely by himself on a sad sack team. I thought Price might have a shot but we got smoked by powerhouse Tampa.

Ranking makes a lot more sense if it's a list made in 1998 - when I looked it up it looked like a 2008 list.

Hasek was very good in 1999 - but Vanbiesbrook and Florida in 96, and Kolzig and Washington in 98 - that's 3x in a 4 year stretch a defensive minded team with very strong goaltending makes the final. When you look at it like that, Hasek's run in 99 is a lot less unique than it sounds. It's a great run for Hasek, but doesn't stand out as much in an "all-time" sense as some of Roy's best runs do. I'd say it's pretty comparable to Price in 2021.

 

[JianYang]

It's a combination of his peak and his overall stature in the Montreal market. He was a rockstar for a while.

So may as well go with him among "the rest".

Maybe Vachon but meh, I identify him as a Los Angeles King.

Our Top 8 is amazing though.

You're right. Now that I think about it, I don't know who else I can put there barring me forgetting someone pre 70s

I started watching when Roy was the guy, and since then, Theodore is probably #3 behind Roy and price, then Hackett #4, and Halak #5 I suppose. Huet is right there with Halak as well imo

 

[nhlfan9191]

You're right. Now that I think about it, I don't know who else I can put there barring me forgetting someone pre 70s

I started watching when Roy was the guy, and since then, Theodore is probably #3 behind Roy and price, then Hackett #4, and Halak #5 I suppose. Huet is right there with Halak as well imo

We’ve always had awesome goalies, even when the franchise went down the wrong direction. It was always the one consistent. I hope that doesn’t end here. A great goalie can make a mediocre team worth following by himself.

 

[EbonyRaptor]

Wonder if we could move his contract like we did Weber?

I hate to be the vulture swooping in to pick at the carcass, but, I was wondering the same thing - if MTL would be looking to move Price's contract. As you're probably aware - the Hawks are in a rebuild having stripped the roster down to the studs resulting in tons of available salary cap room with which to weaponize if possible. Price's $10.5M for 3 more years shouldn't be a problem for the Hawks to handle. If MTL would be amenable to this deal - what would they be willing to give up to clear that $10.5M off their salary cap?

Would this deal work?

To CHI: Carry Price and 2023 1st rounder (5th overall)
To MTL: 2023 1st rounder (19th overall)

Basically swap #5 for #19 and unload Price's $10.5Mx3

 

[Scintillating10]

I hate to be the vulture swooping in to pick at the carcass, but, I was wondering the same thing - if MTL would be looking to move Price's contract. As you're probably aware - the Hawks are in a rebuild having stripped the roster down to the studs resulting in tons of available salary cap room with which to weaponize if possible. Price's $10.5M for 3 more years shouldn't be a problem for the Hawks to handle. If MTL would be amenable to this deal - what would they be willing to give up to clear that $10.5M off their salary cap?

Would this deal work?

To CHI: Carry Price and 2023 1st rounder (5th overall)
To MTL: 2023 1st rounder (19th overall)

Basically swap #5 for #19 and unload Price's $10.5Mx3

I would just keep Price on LTIR. If Michkov still there at 5, Habs could get huge overpayment for him. Montreal might not like Russians but imagine there's teams pay a bundle for next Ovechkin type. Montreal might be able to land 2 more Dach types.

 

[Twisted Sinister]

I hate to be the vulture swooping in to pick at the carcass, but, I was wondering the same thing - if MTL would be looking to move Price's contract. As you're probably aware - the Hawks are in a rebuild having stripped the roster down to the studs resulting in tons of available salary cap room with which to weaponize if possible. Price's $10.5M for 3 more years shouldn't be a problem for the Hawks to handle. If MTL would be amenable to this deal - what would they be willing to give up to clear that $10.5M off their salary cap?

Would this deal work?

To CHI: Carry Price and 2023 1st rounder (5th overall)
To MTL: 2023 1st rounder (19th overall)

Basically swap #5 for #19 and unload Price's $10.5Mx3

 

[BLONG7]

I hate to be the vulture swooping in to pick at the carcass, but, I was wondering the same thing - if MTL would be looking to move Price's contract. As you're probably aware - the Hawks are in a rebuild having stripped the roster down to the studs resulting in tons of available salary cap room with which to weaponize if possible. Price's $10.5M for 3 more years shouldn't be a problem for the Hawks to handle. If MTL would be amenable to this deal - what would they be willing to give up to clear that $10.5M off their salary cap?

Would this deal work?

To CHI: Carry Price and 2023 1st rounder (5th overall)
To MTL: 2023 1st rounder (19th overall)

Basically swap #5 for #19 and unload Price's $10.5Mx3

No
They are still at a point, where they do not need to move that 10.5M from LTIR. Let alone swap 5 for 19...............not a chance.

 

[Pierre Dagenais]

I hate to be the vulture swooping in to pick at the carcass, but, I was wondering the same thing - if MTL would be looking to move Price's contract. As you're probably aware - the Hawks are in a rebuild having stripped the roster down to the studs resulting in tons of available salary cap room with which to weaponize if possible. Price's $10.5M for 3 more years shouldn't be a problem for the Hawks to handle. If MTL would be amenable to this deal - what would they be willing to give up to clear that $10.5M off their salary cap?

Would this deal work?

To CHI: Carry Price and 2023 1st rounder (5th overall)
To MTL: 2023 1st rounder (19th overall)

Basically swap #5 for #19 and unload Price's $10.5Mx3

One of the worst proposals that I have ever seen.

 

[Tuggy]

I hate to be the vulture swooping in to pick at the carcass, but, I was wondering the same thing - if MTL would be looking to move Price's contract. As you're probably aware - the Hawks are in a rebuild having stripped the roster down to the studs resulting in tons of available salary cap room with which to weaponize if possible. Price's $10.5M for 3 more years shouldn't be a problem for the Hawks to handle. If MTL would be amenable to this deal - what would they be willing to give up to clear that $10.5M off their salary cap?

Would this deal work?

To CHI: Carry Price and 2023 1st rounder (5th overall)
To MTL: 2023 1st rounder (19th overall)

Basically swap #5 for #19 and unload Price's $10.5Mx3

 

[the]

I hate to be the vulture swooping in to pick at the carcass, but, I was wondering the same thing - if MTL would be looking to move Price's contract. As you're probably aware - the Hawks are in a rebuild having stripped the roster down to the studs resulting in tons of available salary cap room with which to weaponize if possible. Price's $10.5M for 3 more years shouldn't be a problem for the Hawks to handle. If MTL would be amenable to this deal - what would they be willing to give up to clear that $10.5M off their salary cap?

Would this deal work?

To CHI: Carry Price and 2023 1st rounder (5th overall)
To MTL: 2023 1st rounder (19th overall)

Basically swap #5 for #19 and unload Price's $10.5Mx3

I've seen bad proposals but this is just awful.

 

[lillypad33]

Keep in mind that list was made in 98. Hasek was still playing as was Jagr and others.

And I put that list out there not as ‘proof’ of anything but to provide some context on how highly regarded Sawchuk was.

Personally I’d say Hasek was probably the best goalie ever. He’s only player who came within a hair of winning a cup almost entirely by himself on a sad sack team. I thought Price might have a shot but we got smoked by powerhouse Tampa.

Patrick Roy was my favourite goaltender growing up. Quite a bit is made of him and Allaire changing the position. It's true.... Patrick came out of nowhere and his positioning helped the Canadiens win the cup in his first year.
Dom came along and further refined that positioning. He took slightly different angles in different situations, and challenged the shooter in a way that I can only describe as taking a high percentage risk based on body positioning.
Dominek Hasek, during his 98-2001 seasons was about as dominant a player as I've ever seen play in the NHL. This includes Gretzky and Lemieux.
I like Carey, but after watching Roy and Hasek, he's nowhere close to the same tier as them.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Patrick Roy was my favourite goaltender growing up. Quite a bit is made of him and Allaire changing the position. It's true.... Patrick came out of nowhere and his positioning helped the Canadiens win the cup in his first year.
Dom came along and further refined that positioning. He took slightly different angles in different situations, and challenged the shooter in a way that I can only describe as taking a high percentage risk based on body positioning.
Dominek Hasek, during his 98-2001 seasons was about as dominant a player as I've ever seen play in the NHL. This includes Gretzky and Lemieux.
I like Carey, but after watching Roy and Hasek, he's nowhere close to the same tier as them.

Hasek is in a league of his own. Roy is not at his level. And I’d put Dryden and Plante ahead of Roy. I also disagree that Dom refined what Roy was doing. They are completely different goalies that are night and day different in how they played.

Two things separate Roy and Price. The first is the quality of the teams. The second is health. Swap the teams and Price has multiple cups and Roy has none. As for health, Price got injured at some key moments that hurt his resume. 2014 conference finals was just awful- especially how it happened. I’m convinced that we go to the finals that year if he’s not hurt. And in 2016 he was easily the best player in the league before getting injured. That would’ve been back to back Hart trophies. But… he did get hurt. So it becomes a coulda-been story. Which is a shame.

One thing he has over Roy though was his consistency in the playoffs. He was pretty freaking solid. Yes he got crushed early on but those teams were so badly outplayed it wasn’t funny. From 2011 onward he was a machine. Roy was bad enough that he lost us series we should’ve won. And he did that a lot. Price also consistently beat better teams and that’s something Roy was never able to do even in his cup runs. A third advantage would be puck handling. Price was as good as any goalie in that regard.

I actually think Price was “better” than Roy. But he doesn’t have the hardware and thus is (and should be) ranked lower. It’s not fair but it is what it is. And again, coming in behind guys like Dryden and Roy - there’s no shame in that.

 

[BLONG7]

Habs have had some amazing goalies..................there is ONE major glaring difference in the goalies of past teams, no disrespect at all, but they all had hall of fame types of players out in front of them....
Price had nothing.............absolutely nothing.
It's unfortunate he was such a great goalie ( most of his career ) and the team was at it's worst time in it's 100 years of existing....

 

[EbonyRaptor]

One of the worst proposals that I have ever seen.

I think I have my answer. I'll see myself out.

 

[1909]

Patrick Roy was my favourite goaltender growing up. Quite a bit is made of him and Allaire changing the position. It's true.... Patrick came out of nowhere and his positioning helped the Canadiens win the cup in his first year.
Dom came along and further refined that positioning. He took slightly different angles in different situations, and challenged the shooter in a way that I can only describe as taking a high percentage risk based on body positioning.
Dominek Hasek, during his 98-2001 seasons was about as dominant a player as I've ever seen play in the NHL. This includes Gretzky and Lemieux.
I like Carey, but after watching Roy and Hasek, he's nowhere close to the same tier as them.

Carey has the best "technique" of them all (Hasek has none), as well as being a good stickhandler around his net. He had no good team in front of him for most of the time.

 

[cphabs]

Habs have had some amazing goalies..................there is ONE major glaring difference in the goalies of past teams, no disrespect at all, but they all had hall of fame types of players out in front of them....
Price had nothing.............absolutely nothing.
It's unfortunate he was such a great goalie ( most of his career ) and the team was at it's worst time in it's 100 years of existing....

So did every other franchise. I really can’t believe some of us are comparing Roy to Price, or suggesting that Price would do just as good with team Roy had in front of him…

 

[BLONG7]

So did every other franchise. I really can’t believe some of us are comparing Roy to Price, or suggesting that Price would do just as good with team Roy had in front of him…

Price won a Gold medal with TC..............Roy never did. Intersting eh....
Big fan of both, but we both know, Price did NOT have the run support Roy did.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

So did every other franchise. I really can’t believe some of us are comparing Roy to Price, or suggesting that Price would do just as good with team Roy had in front of him…

You honestly think the teams don’t make a difference? Come on…

Roy has zero Stanley cups if Desharnais is his first line center.

Look what happened to the team in 2015-16 when Price got hurt. First to last… crashed and burned. There are very few players in the league who have that kind of impact. You think that would’ve happened to Roy’s teams? No way. Carbo, Chelios, Robinson, Richer…. Packed with great players who played New Jersey style defense. Imagine Price behind that team.

 

[Vachon23]

 

[JoelWarlord]

I think I have my answer. I'll see myself out.

To provide slightly more detail, it just doesn't do anything for Montreal at all, there's no meaningful problem solved or value added for us to do it.

The Habs print money and Price being on LTIR is not a pressing issue. It's a slight inconvenience in the offseason so they might be willing to pay something like a 3rd to dump the contract and save the actual cash, but moving from 5th to 19th just to dump an LTIR contract that amounts to a rounding error for Montreal financially makes no sense.