Player Discussion Carey Price - Moving Home Edition

[Sorinth]

Crosby signed a deal structure that was made illegal in the new CBA when Price signed his or you know the same thing would have been done. Crosbys deal was all front loaded, he is making 3 million this year. If Crosby could only sign an 8 year deal his cap hit would have been a lot higher.

Not to mention at the time of the signing Crosby's cap hit took up 14.5% of the salary cap which is actually higher then Price's 14.0%

 

[Scintillating10]

Have 1.8 million kicking around? Carey Price house is for sale. Good investment, considering he paid $800,000 for it back in 2010.

Carey Price's house is for sale: here's the price and the photos

It's not the surprise of the year, and Angela Price announced a few weeks ago that her family would be moving, but the Price family's residence has officially been p

www.habsfanatics.com

 

[Mikah]

No, you really have this backwards. Price did not sign a contract with an insurance company, nor is he being paid by the insurance company. He signed a contract with an NHL franchise under the NHL CBA, which obligates said NHL franchise to pay out every dime owed on the contract as long as Price abides by the terms of the NHL contract. In his case now that he's on LTIR, that essentially amounts to attending annual appointments with the team doctors to check the box that says the NHL franchise's doctors deem him medically unfit to play.

I am not being pedantic, it is an important distinction. The Canadiens have owed him every dime of the contract under the NHL/NHLPA CBA since the second both sides signed it, and Price is only obligated to uphold his end of the NHL contract which involves standardized medical tests that are all agreed upon under the CBA. Insurance is not mandated on NHL contracts, it's entirely up to the teams to buy insurance based on their own risk tolerance. A lot of teams do not insure contracts, and even the ones that can afford insurance usually only get it on a few big contracts. The NHLPA is not going to allow teams to arbitrarily force a small subset of players to jump through hoops to be paid simply because the NHL team decided voluntarily to insure their own liability to the player.

In the real world insurance companies absolutely have a lot of pull in these situations where a company is paying out an injured worker, but the NHL isn't the real world and the NHLPA isn't a regular union.

This is something I have no clue about legally, but I would think a player on the LTIR would need to show that he is working towards coming back to play for the insurance to pay?

And what if the doctor deems him fit to play? He would have to show up and play to be paid? You can't just decide that you are injured and you no longer will be playing, but keep getting paid?

Otherwise, isn't the definition of retirement?

 

[nhlfan9191]

This is something I have no clue about legally, but I would think a player on the LTIR would need to show that he is working towards coming back to play for the insurance to pay?

And what if the doctor deems him fit to play? He would have to show up and play to be paid? You can't just decide that you are injured and you no longer will be playing, but keep getting paid?

Otherwise, isn't the definition of retirement?

No doctor is going to deem him fit to play ever again. The only way Price could come back is if he made a gigantic effort just to hit the acceptable level and he won’t do that again at this point because of the risk of further injury. They tried everything to get him back last year and even after a year it looked like he was struggling to move. Insurance isn’t a problem for him. He just has to keep going to his doctors appointments, they take one look at his broken body, and send him off.

 

[JoelWarlord]

This is something I have no clue about legally, but I would think a player on the LTIR would need to show that he is working towards coming back to play for the insurance to pay?

It's all set out in the CBA. LTIR requires doctors to monitor the player and attend annual physicals (or sometimes more often if the league itself wants to investigate). Whether or not the player is required to get rehab or treatment likely depends on the injury itself. The insurance company can't compel the player to do anything because the insurance policy is between the Canadiens and the insurance company. Price is not a party to that contract and can not be compelled to do anything outside the CBA between the NHL and NHLPA.

As long as Price abides by the rules and processes included in the NHL-NHLPA CBA, he's owed every dime on the contract from the Canadiens themselves. It's entirely up to the Habs to go fight with the insurance company to get reimbursed.

And what if the doctor deems him fit to play? He would have to show up and play to be paid? You can't just decide that you are injured and you no longer will be playing, but keep getting paid?

If a doctor deemed him fit to play then yeah he would have to either come back or forfeit his contract (although I'm sure there's a mechanism in the CBA for second opinions and such), but the reality is he'll never be deemed fit to play again.

What we know publicly is that his knee is OK for training in the gym and day to day life, but swells up for 3 days whenever he goes on the ice because goaltending movements are really hard on your knees in weird ways that don't come up in other contexts. That basically means he is never going to be able to get back into game shape since you can't realistically get NHL conditioning only skating twice a week maximum. At this point he would need another knee surgery and that's not something the team is going to compel him to do (and it's likely something Price is able to refuse as well given the potential for QOL risks if it doesn't work out).

 

[LaFloater]

In the end where does Price fit in the pantheon of Hab goalies? I saw Dryden when I was very young but Roy was who set the standard for me. Other than Roy I have witnessed a string of mostly disappointing goalies in my 45 years of Hab fandom. Larocque, Heron, Penney, Thibault, Theodore, Halak and Price (I'm missing a few in there I know). Price represented the best hope but he never really was that money player when it really mattered and the closest chance he got in his prime was cruelly stolen from him by Kreider. In the final vs TB he just didnt perform and steal games like Roy did and the fairytale script of that season disintegrated. So in the end where does Price rank?

 

[BenchBrawl]

In the end where does Price fit in the pantheon of Hab goalies? I saw Dryden when I was very young but Roy was who set the standard for me. Other than Roy I have witnessed a string of mostly disappointing goalies in my 45 years of Hab fandom. Larocque, Heron, Penney, Thibault, Theodore, Halak and Price (I'm missing a few in there I know). Price represented the best hope but he never really was that money player when it really mattered and the closest chance he got in his prime was cruelly stolen from him by Kreider. In the final vs TB he just didnt perform and steal games like Roy did and the fairytale script of that season disintegrated. So in the end where does Price rank?

1. Plante
2. Roy
3. Dryden
4. Vézina
5. Price
6. Durnan
7. Hainsworth
8. Worsley
9. Théodore

Is how I would have it.

 

[Mrb1p]

In the end where does Price fit in the pantheon of Hab goalies? I saw Dryden when I was very young but Roy was who set the standard for me. Other than Roy I have witnessed a string of mostly disappointing goalies in my 45 years of Hab fandom. Larocque, Heron, Penney, Thibault, Theodore, Halak and Price (I'm missing a few in there I know). Price represented the best hope but he never really was that money player when it really mattered and the closest chance he got in his prime was cruelly stolen from him by Kreider. In the final vs TB he just didnt perform and steal games like Roy did and the fairytale script of that season disintegrated. So in the end where does Price rank?

Lol what? Price was literally the best player in the league in both runs the Habs had, and he added one in 2010 where he outplayed Thomas.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

1. Plante
2. Roy
3. Dryden
4. Vézina
5. Price
6. Durnan
7. Hainsworth
8. Worsley
9. Théodore

Is how I would have it.

Price was a money player for sure. From 2011 onwards his numbers were better in the playoffs than the regular season. They were insanely good actually. He was
consistent to the point where it was an auto win if the team scored three goals or more. Injuries kept him from back to back Harts and he’ll still be a HOFer. A shame he was in such crappy teams or he’d have won cups and rank higher.

In terms of Habs I’d put it:

Plante
Dryden
Roy
Price

Durnan has a great case but lost a lot in the playoffs despite being in insane teams. If you wanted to put him ahead, that’s fine too. Vezina was never really best in the league. I’d have Price ahead of him.

Regardless if you have all those goalies ahead of him or not - it’s an insanely good group. He was one of the best players of his time and he’ll be in the HOF. Worthy of jersey retirement. Won absolutely everything but the cup. What a huge break we got winning the draft lottery that year.

 

[nhlfan9191]

In the end where does Price fit in the pantheon of Hab goalies? I saw Dryden when I was very young but Roy was who set the standard for me. Other than Roy I have witnessed a string of mostly disappointing goalies in my 45 years of Hab fandom. Larocque, Heron, Penney, Thibault, Theodore, Halak and Price (I'm missing a few in there I know). Price represented the best hope but he never really was that money player when it really mattered and the closest chance he got in his prime was cruelly stolen from him by Kreider. In the final vs TB he just didnt perform and steal games like Roy did and the fairytale script of that season disintegrated. So in the end where does Price rank?

Roy never played in a series half as lobsidded as Montreal/Tampa in 2021.

 

[Mrb1p]

Price is the best goaltender in franchise history, any of the other goaltenders on this list would tell you that. He had the aboslute worst support.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Roy never played in a series half as lobsidded as Montreal/Tampa in 2021.

And Roy was very, very inconsistent in the playoffs. Two great runs. We’ll deserving of accolades but he actually lost us a lot of series we should’ve won.

 

[Garry Valk]

And Roy was very, very inconsistent in the playoffs. Two great runs. We’ll deserving of accolades but he actually lost us a lot of series we should’ve won.

Three great runs. Was also a rock in ‘89.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Three great runs. Was also a rock in ‘89.

His numbers were awesome that year too. That team was so incredible defensively as well. We haven’t had a club that good since.

But we couldn’t beat a stacked Calgary club. They were so freaking good.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Roy
Dryden
plante
Price

Price could have been higher if it weren't from poor support cast
Still the best goaltender of his era IMO

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Price is the best goaltender in franchise history, any of the other goaltenders on this list would tell you that. He had the aboslute worst support.

I feel like at his best he was better than Roy.
Roy more often than not had some great D in front of him. Though I really can’t comment on that 86 run which was just before I started watching.

My Hab history isn’t great but I’m pretty confident that most if not all those goalies had better teams in front of them.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I feel like at his best he was better than Roy.
Roy more often than not had some great D in front of him. Though I really can’t comment on that 86 run which was just before I started watching.

My Hab history isn’t great but I’m pretty confident that most if not all those goalies had better teams in front of them.

All of those teams were vastly better yes. And I agree that Price was actually “better”. At one point he was arguably the best player in the league.

But… he didn’t win cups. And he didn’t stay healthy. It’s a coulda-been argument with him.

There’s no shame coming in behind guys like Roy or Dryden. It just sucks that he never played behind a solid team.

 

[ZUKI]

Price is the best goaltender in franchise history, any of the other goaltenders on this list would tell you that. He had the aboslute worst support.

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[dackelljuneaubulis02]

All of those teams were vastly better yes. And I agree that Price was actually “better”. At one point he was arguably the best player in the league.

But… he didn’t win cups. And he didn’t stay healthy. It’s a coulda-been argument with him.

There’s no shame coming in behind guys like Roy or Dryden. It’s just a shame he never played behind a solid team.

There will always be a 'rings' debate when evaluating any player in any sport.

Personally, with Price I don't think it's relevant. He never had a Cup worthy roster. If he did then you can bring in the hardware factor. But when a player just doesn't have the supporting cast, it's hardly fair to use lack of hardware as a criterion imo. Sometimes and I repeat sometimes the ring/championship or lack thereof argument is lazy. Again, it really depends on the context of the quality of teams these players had.

80s Jordan is a good example. People seem to forget that the guy was an absolute phenomenon even before he won those chips. An absolute quantum leap in terms of a basket ball player

Had Krause not done his thing and built the Bulls up he did leaving Jordan to be forever stuck with garbage teammates, how much could that really go against him? He dropped massive numbers against the Celtics in the '86 playoffs. Bird called him God. Still lost.

I think the better more precise argument is how well they played when the chips were down. It also takes more skill and nuance to do that.

I do get what you're saying though.

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Vezina has said it dozens of times that Price is better. Everyone knows that.

 

[BLONG7]

Price is the best goaltender in franchise history, any of the other goaltenders on this list would tell you that. He had the aboslute worst support.

This is lost............on a lot of people.

 

[BLONG7]

And Roy was very, very inconsistent in the playoffs. Two great runs. We’ll deserving of accolades but he actually lost us a lot of series we should’ve won.

Bruins beat Roy, like a rented mule in the playoffs............he always looked lost when he played the Bruins....Neely and Bourque scored on him at will.
Doesn't take anything from what he did.............but he was far from perfect.

 

[LaFloater]

Bruins beat Roy, like a rented mule in the playoffs............he always looked lost when he played the Bruins....Neely and Bourque scored on him at will.
Doesn't take anything from what he did.............but he was far from perfect.

Roy was 3-5 vs the Bruins in the playoffs with Montreal. And two series were 7 gamers. I do remember the 1988 playoff loss to the Bruins being very hard to stomach. The Habs still had a solid team and were complete garbage vs the Bruins that round. First win vs the Habs in 44 years at that stage!

 

[JoelWarlord]

If you really want a cup, you sign for less. You know, like Crosby did.

Crosby didn't sign for less. He signed for longer under rules that were changed before Price was up for an extension. Crosby under the same rules we have now limiting term to 8 years would be on a 10.91M cap hit, and he also began that contract under a 64M salary cap vs. Price when it was 79.5M.

Lundqvist had a 8.5 cap hit when Price signed his 10.5 contract. Was he 2m better than Lundqvist? Personally, I don't think he was. I'll get rocks thrown at me but I think Lundqvist was always the better goalie anyway.

That's how these things always work. The newer contract is always higher than the old ones and Price signed his extension 5 years after Lundqvist did, for a similar percentage of the cap.

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

Carey Price besides Dominick Hasek is probably the most talented and IS the most technically sound goalie of all time. No weaknesses. Roy never did as much with such a poor team as the 2014-15 season. It wasn't just his numbers. It was the fact that he did it on such a sorry team that was the lowest scoring team to make the playoffs that year. I can't even imagine what price would've done with Patrick Roy's teams in front of him

 

[HabzSauce]

Carey Price besides Dominick Hasek is probably the most talented and IS the most technically sound goalie of all time. No weaknesses. Roy never did as much with such a poor team as the 2014-15 season. It wasn't just his numbers. It was the fact that he did it on such a sorry team that was the lowest scoring team to make the playoffs that year. I can't even imagine what price would've done with Patrick Roy's teams in front of him

Not only did we make the playoffs that year but we finished 1 point shy of the president trophy? Only trailing the ducks if I remember correctly.

And that's with DAVID DESHARNAIS as our #1C (no disrespect)