Player Discussion Carey Price - Moving Home Edition

[nhlfan9191]

Hmm no. Price spent a whole year pretending he might come back, doing rehab for the insurance company. Weber apparently played for like 3 years with pretty bad injuries... MRIs and scans exist, and insurance company doctors look at them.

Lol Price had been playing with bad injuries since he was 26. He legitimately tried to come back, it wasn’t a front for insurance companies. He played until it was no longer physically possible.

 

[Scintillating10]

The big difference is how much money is still due to be paid. Weber's contract was heavily front loaded, what was the difference between what was left and Dadonov's contract? Don't think there was alot. Another team would need a heavy incentive to assume the rest of Price's contract, like moving an equally onerous contract.

edit: Weber had a total of $6 million left on his contract (4yrs: 3+1+1+1). Dadonov is being paid $6.5 million this season.

Bergevin left us in cap hell

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

Bergevin left us in cap hell

Meh, not really. Price has 3 yrs left on LTIR after this season. Doesn't really count. Monahan, Drouin, Dadonov and Byron, all walk by summer. It frees up considerable space July 1st. Hoffman has a yr left. Gallagher and Armia are the ones that truly hurt. Edmundson and Savard are easily tradeable, even for a very little return. Dvo, Anderson and Matheson are the tricky ones. Seems like the Habs want to build around them, although Anderson's deal is lengthy.

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

I lost so much faith in Bergevin at the 2015 deadline. Even if he acquired Petry. Then getting Ben Scrivens when Price goes down and letting the season go to waste pretty much sealed my opinion of him. I was already out on him before Subban.

He should of been canned when he let Markov walk, and replaced the D with Joe Morrow, Schlemko and Alzner.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

He should of been canned when he let Markov walk, and replaced the D with Joe Morrow, Schlemko and Alzner.

Yeah, you could realistically argue results before but by any rightful standard Bergevin should have lost his job in 2018.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Robidas island, in my mind was a place where athletes went to recover from career ending brain injuries due to concussions, not knee or foot injuries that can surely be corrected.

They can and have been corrected but not to the standard that would allow these players to return to playing pro hockey. Price did get a knee surgery and can walk and run and train. Same with Weber and his bad foot, he's still able to live his life and both guys could play in a beer league, but their injuries prevent them from playing at NHL standard. Price has been able to train just fine since he initially recovered from the surgery he got in 2021. The problem is that going on the ice and doing regular goalie movements causes his knee to swell up like crazy to the point he has to take multiple days off for the swelling to subside and can never get back into game shape.

He wasn't working towards a return, he was proving to the insurance company that he tried. Now the insurance accepted the claim.

Price doesn't have to give a shit about what the insurance company thinks. The Montreal Canadiens owe him the entire value of his contract, and it's up to the team to fight with the insurance company to be reimbursed for whatever portion of it was insured.

 

[Draft]

They can and have been corrected but not to the standard that would allow these players to return to playing pro hockey. Price did get a knee surgery and can walk and run and train. Same with Weber and his bad foot, he's still able to live his life and both guys could play in a beer league, but their injuries prevent them from playing at NHL standard. Price has been able to train just fine since he initially recovered from the surgery he got in 2021. The problem is that going on the ice and doing regular goalie movements causes his knee to swell up like crazy to the point he has to take multiple days off for the swelling to subside and can never get back into game shape.


Price doesn't have to give a shit about what the insurance company thinks. The Montreal Canadiens owe him the entire value of his contract, and it's up to the team to fight with the insurance company to be reimbursed for whatever portion of it was insured.

I don't understand why you'd need to invent conspiracy theories to explain why a goalie with over 800 career games played and a long history of knee injuries couldn't return to the NHL at 35 after a knee surgery he got at 33.

The last point is a good one. This isn't a conflict between the player and the team.

Now that he's no longer an "active" player and things have settled a bit, I don't mind saying that I have a connection with the Price family and know a bit about what's gone on in the last couple years. What he's been through is no small thing - both physically and psychologically. In terms of hockey, if he could play at the NHL-level and maintain a reasonable standard of life, he absolutely would. At this point though, he's done his job and earned/met the expectations of his contract. I really hope that the Habs can maintain their relationship with Price and I personally hope to see him pursue other avenues within the organization if he so chooses.

 

[yianik]

I remember Price after making the team and saying he felt like a hobbit, and just would go home and hide in his hole.

I thought, oh boy, this guy doesn't seem to have the mental make up to handle it in Montreal. He was also too cavalier about letting goals in in the first couple years for my liking. ( and yeah I know about shaking off goals as important, but this was different ).

Boy did he blossom. One of the greatest goalies in the Habs storied history. And now it's over. His play is now for memories. Its done. Damn.

All the best Carey.

 

[MasterD]

Meh, not really. Price has 3 yrs left on LTIR after this season. Doesn't really count. Monahan, Drouin, Dadonov and Byron, all walk by summer. It frees up considerable space July 1st. Hoffman has a yr left. Gallagher and Armia are the ones that truly hurt. Edmundson and Savard are easily tradeable, even for a very little return. Dvo, Anderson and Matheson are the tricky ones. Seems like the Habs want to build around them, although Anderson's deal is lengthy.

So he didn't leave us in cap hell, but 5 guys/contracts are problems, + Price's LTIR, + Edmunston and Savard have no trade value...

That's cap hell, by definition.

They can and have been corrected but not to the standard that would allow these players to return to playing pro hockey. Price did get a knee surgery and can walk and run and train. Same with Weber and his bad foot, he's still able to live his life and both guys could play in a beer league, but their injuries prevent them from playing at NHL standard. Price has been able to train just fine since he initially recovered from the surgery he got in 2021. The problem is that going on the ice and doing regular goalie movements causes his knee to swell up like crazy to the point he has to take multiple days off for the swelling to subside and can never get back into game shape.


Price doesn't have to give a shit about what the insurance company thinks. The Montreal Canadiens owe him the entire value of his contract, and it's up to the team to fight with the insurance company to be reimbursed for whatever portion of it was insured.

If Price doesn't do what the team says, which is what the insurance company says, he's not getting paid. So he cared a lot. 40M$ lot.

 

[WickedPegJets]

Actually, I'm commenting because I kind of do understand how the body works.
And from personal experiences , it is mandatory from your insurer that you seek and follow medical treatment for your injuries if you intend to stay on the payroll ´ for the length of your work contract.
While I was not a professional athlete, I did have a major accident 8 years before my expected retirement date. I suffered life threatening injuries that required 3 surgeries , and then about 6 years of rehab in order to regain an acceptable ´quality of life' . After that period, and without any possibility of more improvements because of permanent damage to my spinal cord, and having a bunch of disk fusions , a team of Dr consisting of neurologists and neurosurgeons came to the conclusion that no further treatment was going to make things any better, and because my line of work involved making quick life saving decisions and hard physical work, Only after that , the insurer accepted that I stopped physical rehab until the end of my contract.
So, while I do understand Price's decision not taking the risk to suffer from his knee later on in life, I don't understand the insurer's perspective of just going along with this decision and respecting the contract.
Robidas island, in my mind was a place where athletes went to recover from career ending brain injuries due to concussions, not knee or foot injuries that can surely be corrected.

Insurance companies treat the rich elites differently than us common peasants.

 

[MasterD]

Actually, I'm commenting because I kind of do understand how the body works.
And from personal experiences , it is mandatory from your insurer that you seek and follow medical treatment for your injuries if you intend to stay on the payroll ´ for the length of your work contract.
While I was not a professional athlete, I did have a major accident 8 years before my expected retirement date. I suffered life threatening injuries that required 3 surgeries , and then about 6 years of rehab in order to regain an acceptable ´quality of life' . After that period, and without any possibility of more improvements because of permanent damage to my spinal cord, and having a bunch of disk fusions , a team of Dr consisting of neurologists and neurosurgeons came to the conclusion that no further treatment was going to make things any better, and because my line of work involved making quick life saving decisions and hard physical work, Only after that , the insurer accepted that I stopped physical rehab until the end of my contract.
So, while I do understand Price's decision not taking the risk to suffer from his knee later on in life, I don't understand the insurer's perspective of just going along with this decision and respecting the contract.
Robidas island, in my mind was a place where athletes went to recover from career ending brain injuries due to concussions, not knee or foot injuries that can surely be corrected.

Agreed with the beginning, disagreed with the end.

Me and you can live with knee and feet injuries, but that doesn't mean an athlete can perform at a NHL level. Depends on how the insurance contracts are written.

For example I have disability insurance that says it will pay if I can't perform my current career - but if that happened, I could still work in a different line of work and they'd keep paying.

 

[WickedPegJets]

Meh, not really. Price has 3 yrs left on LTIR after this season. Doesn't really count. Monahan, Drouin, Dadonov and Byron, all walk by summer. It frees up considerable space July 1st. Hoffman has a yr left. Gallagher and Armia are the ones that truly hurt. Edmundson and Savard are easily tradeable, even for a very little return. Dvo, Anderson and Matheson are the tricky ones. Seems like the Habs want to build around them, although Anderson's deal is lengthy.

Pierre Lebrun reported that Hughes just turned down an unspecified team’s offer of its No. 1 pick for Josh Anderson.

 

[nyhabsfan]

Price gave us so many great memories.
How many times did the GMs fail him by not building a strong team around him leaving the heavy weight of a season soley on his shoulders.
Enjoy retirement Carey, wishing you good health and happiness.

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

Pierre Lebrun reported that Hughes just turned down an unspecified team’s offer of its No. 1 pick for Josh Anderson.

Likely building up a bidding war, would be great if he is moved for a first, A prospect and some bigger haul.

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

So he didn't leave us in cap hell, but 5 guys/contracts are problems, + Price's LTIR, + Edmunston and Savard have no trade value...

That's cap hell, by definition.


If Price doesn't do what the team says, which is what the insurance company says, he's not getting paid. So he cared a lot. 40M$ lot.

Dvo is paid decently as a 3C compared to similar players around the league. Anderson also has a decent caphit, it's the length that stings. He's getting lots of interest, so the problem may solve itself. Matheson is still young and has potential to become a top 4D. Basically, Armia and Gallagher are the problem but most teams are now haunted by past mistakes anyways. The cap will rise significantly in the next months, therefore some relief will come, making Armia's caphit manageable. As for Gallagher, you place him on LTIR and ride it out.

 

[WG]

Dvo is paid decently as a 3C compared to similar players around the league. Anderson also has a decent caphit, it's the length that stings. He's getting lots of interest, so the problem may solve itself. Matheson is still young and has potential to become a top 4D. Basically, Armia and Gallagher are the problem but most teams are now haunted by past mistakes anyways. The cap will rise significantly in the next months, therefore some relief will come, making Armia's caphit manageable. As for Gallagher, you place him on LTIR and ride it out.

But LTIR is not a bottomless pit, Hughes made the Weber/Dadonov trade because $18M in LTIR was too much to maintain for years and years. Price plus Gallagher at $16-17M on LTIR will still hurt. Not next year as the team will probably still be non-contending. Have to hope HuGo can revisit the Weber trade next year on Price.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Bergevin's conservative nature did us in. He should have fully committed in 2015 and 2017 and went all in. But he always kept a foot out the door whicb never paid off as we couldnt develop players. Ultimately I do think Price bought Bergevin a lot of time and masked a lot of issues with the team.

You’re absolutely correct.

I mean look at who Bergevin managed to add in 2014/15, at each deadline he added Vanek and Petry. Those were huge adds, but at the same time when you factor in that was “god-mode” prime Price era and he wasn’t willing to trade any prospects or first round picks to go for more big fish was a disastrous move to take the franchise in.

Price was certainly good enough to carry a team to a cup, he just needed a bit more supporting cast. An upgrade to 1C would’ve maybe done it in 14/17 as you alluded to. It’s not like our picks or prospects did us any good from that era, I know it’s hindsight - but hindsight will not look kindly on the Bergy-era. He’s in contention for worst GM of Habs history and no one ever thought Houle would have company in that conversation.

 

[Scintillating10]

Meh, not really. Price has 3 yrs left on LTIR after this season. Doesn't really count. Monahan, Drouin, Dadonov and Byron, all walk by summer. It frees up considerable space July 1st. Hoffman has a yr left. Gallagher and Armia are the ones that truly hurt. Edmundson and Savard are easily tradeable, even for a very little return. Dvo, Anderson and Matheson are the tricky ones. Seems like the Habs want to build around them, although Anderson's deal is lengthy.

I don't think we can contend until Price and Gallagher contracts come off. Draft high next 3 years, not much else we can do. 17 million bad contracts holding us back.

 

[george3322]

What a disappointing career,

I don't feel bad for the guy though, he should have never stayed here, he should have moved on to win a cup elsewhere,

If a cup was more important to him than money, he would have walked away before signing that contract, and signed with a better team,

 

[Hins77]

What a disappointing career,

I don't feel bad for the guy though, he should have never stayed here, he should have moved on to win a cup elsewhere,

If a cup was more important to him than money, he would have walked away before signing that contract, and signed with a better team,

Yeah but better team doesnt have salary cap.
His agent his coming and telling to Carey Price. Ok. There is 5 teams in the entire league with 10 millions of cap space.
2 of them are rebuilders, the other one, you won’t like the coach, and there is Columbus and Buffalo.
-what are we doing Carey?

I take 10 millions by Montreal and run.

 

[JoelWarlord]

If Price doesn't do what the team says, which is what the insurance company says, he's not getting paid. So he cared a lot. 40M$ lot.

No, you really have this backwards. Price did not sign a contract with an insurance company, nor is he being paid by the insurance company. He signed a contract with an NHL franchise under the NHL CBA, which obligates said NHL franchise to pay out every dime owed on the contract as long as Price abides by the terms of the NHL contract. In his case now that he's on LTIR, that essentially amounts to attending annual appointments with the team doctors to check the box that says the NHL franchise's doctors deem him medically unfit to play.

I am not being pedantic, it is an important distinction. The Canadiens have owed him every dime of the contract under the NHL/NHLPA CBA since the second both sides signed it, and Price is only obligated to uphold his end of the NHL contract which involves standardized medical tests that are all agreed upon under the CBA. Insurance is not mandated on NHL contracts, it's entirely up to the teams to buy insurance based on their own risk tolerance. A lot of teams do not insure contracts, and even the ones that can afford insurance usually only get it on a few big contracts. The NHLPA is not going to allow teams to arbitrarily force a small subset of players to jump through hoops to be paid simply because the NHL team decided voluntarily to insure their own liability to the player.

In the real world insurance companies absolutely have a lot of pull in these situations where a company is paying out an injured worker, but the NHL isn't the real world and the NHLPA isn't a regular union.

 

[BLONG7]

Yeah but better team doesnt have salary cap.
His agent his coming and telling to Carey Price. Ok. There is 5 teams in the entire league with 10 millions of cap space.
2 of them are rebuilders, the other one, you won’t like the coach, and there is Columbus and Buffalo.
-what are we doing Carey?

I take 10 millions by Montreal and run.

The guy was purely loyal, and the habs were the devil he knew...........he just needed a GM who had brains, instead of braun.

 

[Monsieur Miz]

Yeah but better team doesnt have salary cap.
His agent his coming and telling to Carey Price. Ok. There is 5 teams in the entire league with 10 millions of cap space.
2 of them are rebuilders, the other one, you won’t like the coach, and there is Columbus and Buffalo.
-what are we doing Carey?

I take 10 millions by Montreal and run.

If you really want a cup, you sign for less. You know, like Crosby did.

So I don't feel bad for him at all.

Lundqvist had a 8.5 cap hit when Price signed his 10.5 contract. Was he 2m better than Lundqvist? Personally, I don't think he was. I'll get rocks thrown at me but I think Lundqvist was always the better goalie anyway.

 

[BLONG7]

If you really want a cup, you sign for less. You know, like Crosby did.

So I don't feel bad for him at all.

Lundqvist had a 8.5 cap hit when Price signed his 10.5 contract. Was he 2m better than Lundqvist? Personally, I don't think he was. I'll get rocks thrown at me but I think Lundqvist was always the better goalie anyway.

Wasn't this debunked? The King had a deal which was a larger percentage of the cap when he signed his deal...?

Anyhow, Price's agent could have asked for 12M and got it..................he was the ONLY thing we had going for us.
We were scraping the bottom of the barrell on all categories, except the goaltending categories when this contract was negotiated.
Not on Price to build the team.........his cap hit was never ever in the way.

Edit............just checked and I was wrong, on the cap hits..............Price had a 13.3% cap hit in 18-19 when he signed his deal, and The King was 12.4% when he signed his deal. Still the same premise, neither goalie had a deal that stood in the way of their GM to build a winning team.
At least the Rangers didn't use DD as their guy while Henrik was King.

 

[Perrah]

If you really want a cup, you sign for less. You know, like Crosby did.

So I don't feel bad for him at all.

Lundqvist had a 8.5 cap hit when Price signed his 10.5 contract. Was he 2m better than Lundqvist? Personally, I don't think he was. I'll get rocks thrown at me but I think Lundqvist was always the better goalie anyway.

Crosby signed a deal structure that was made illegal in the new CBA when Price signed his or you know the same thing would have been done. Crosbys deal was all front loaded, he is making 3 million this year. If Crosby could only sign an 8 year deal his cap hit would have been a lot higher.