OT: Career advice Part II

[Machinehead]

What jobs are you looking for that will make you overqualified?

Sometimes overqualified isn't bad. I got an offer last time from a company that I didn't end up taking but the guy basically told me I was overqualified for it and asked why I'm looking at the role (for what it's worth I don't think I'm that overqualified for it), but I ended up getting an offer in the end. Some companies will view it as a positive.

Nothing in particular. It's just that I'm not being picky. I should add that I'm officially being laid off in January. It's been coming and at this point, I don't care. Our department got new leadership recently and they're very anti-adjunct. I'm miserable anyway.

I need insurance because I have asthma, and if I'm doing something menial for a year, I'm totally fine with that. I just don't want a scenario where January comes along and I'm still not working.

And I don't want (idk let's just say) Home Depot to see my degrees and experience and pass right over me.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Nothing in particular. It's just that I'm not being picky. I should add that I'm officially being laid off in January. It's been coming and at this point, I don't care. Our department got new leadership recently and they're very anti-adjunct. I'm miserable anyway.

I need insurance because I have asthma, and if I'm doing something menial for a year, I'm totally fine with that. I just don't want a scenario where January comes along and I'm still not working.

And I don't want (idk let's just say) Home Depot to see my degrees and experience and pass right over me.

Can you do sales?

 

[Machinehead]

Can you do sales?

I don't know if I would say I know how to do sales, but I definitely have customer service experience.

The thing is, if I only highlight that, I'm going to have to a four-year abyss on my resume from when I was teaching.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I don't know if I would say I know how to do sales, but I definitely have customer service experience.

The thing is, if I only highlight that, I'm going to have to a four-year abyss on my resume from when I was teaching.

I'm asking because sales/customer service/negotiations are jobs that we have where I work and I don't know if there are openings but maybe...

 

[Machinehead]

The faculty website actually does say I'm an advisor.

Am I? Sure, I guess. And Steven Stamkos is a "center."

Am I putting "advisor" on my resume? "Center" is on Stamkos' resume.

 

[smoneil]

I don't know if I would say I know how to do sales, but I definitely have customer service experience.

The thing is, if I only highlight that, I'm going to have to a four-year abyss on my resume from when I was teaching.

You can do sales. I worked in sales before I started teaching, and it was the best "teacher training" I ever had. Sales is basically just getting to know a customer, teaching them a bit about a product, and making a good recommendation for the product that best fits their need.

Also, I don't know if it would help, but I know a couple of people in the English department at BMCC-CUNY. I can ask if they have any adjunct openings/put you in touch.

 

[Machinehead]

You can do sales. I worked in sales before I started teaching, and it was the best "teacher training" I ever had. Sales is basically just getting to know a customer, teaching them a bit about a product, and making a good recommendation for the product that best fits their need.

Also, I don't know if it would help, but I know a couple of people in the English department at BMCC-CUNY. I can ask if they have any adjunct openings/put you in touch.

Yeah, anything helps. Thanks!

 

[Machinehead]

I've actually been considering taking a position in sales. It's not my dream job but nobody said I have to do it the rest of my life.

Here's my thing, though, and maybe it's a dumb question because I know nothing about it: they're mostly no experience required because they give you training, and you start at $65k base. Like... what's the catch?

Most jobs start you part-time at shit pay. It can't be this easy. There has to be a red flag I'm missing.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I've actually been considering taking a position in sales. It's not my dream job but nobody said I have to do it the rest of my life.

Here's my thing, though, and maybe it's a dumb question because I know nothing about it: they're mostly no experience required because they give you training, and you start at $65k base. Like... what's the catch?

Most jobs start you part-time at shit pay. It can't be this easy. There has to be a red flag I'm missing.

I feel like Sales is WAY too broad to generalize like that. But also, let's say all sales jobs pay like that have no experience required sales people are a particular kind of person. Most people can't do it. It's difficult to be good at it and it's just a grind. And mentally it's very challenging when you're rejected. However, there's also sales that's just basically managing existing clients. Sales is a million different things. Hell a partner at a law firm's main is a glorified sales person.

 

[smoneil]

I've actually been considering taking a position in sales. It's not my dream job but nobody said I have to do it the rest of my life.

Here's my thing, though, and maybe it's a dumb question because I know nothing about it: they're mostly no experience required because they give you training, and you start at $65k base. Like... what's the catch?

Most jobs start you part-time at shit pay. It can't be this easy. There has to be a red flag I'm missing.

Some sales jobs have some moral conflict as well. I had trouble when I worked sales because I refused to outright lie to people. I'm a throwback to what sales used to be before the big-box store, where the idea was to form trust, relationships, and consumer loyalty. Now, it's all about hitting the daily sales numbers and every customer is viewed as a mark. I got reamed out by a sales manager one time because this little old lady was looking at digital SLR cameras (at the time, they were top of the line, and like $1200+). She wasn't bothered by the price tag at all, but a short conversation with her told me that A: she had no idea how to work that camera (meant for photography enthusiasts) and B: all she wanted/needed was a camera to take pictures of her grandkids and email them to people. She never even planned on printing the photos. I got her set up with a Kodak with an easy docking system, which was even more than she needed, but to hear the sales manager, I might as well have stolen $1,000 from the store (or more, because he would have gotten her to buy several accessories as well). I couldn't do it for all that long. Again, that's not all sales jobs, but it is pretty common, and I couldn't work in a field designed to screw people over.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Some sales jobs have some moral conflict as well. I had trouble when I worked sales because I refused to outright lie to people. I'm a throwback to what sales used to be before the big-box store, where the idea was to form trust, relationships, and consumer loyalty. Now, it's all about hitting the daily sales numbers and every customer is viewed as a mark. I got reamed out by a sales manager one time because this little old lady was looking at digital SLR cameras (at the time, they were top of the line, and like $1200+). She wasn't bothered by the price tag at all, but a short conversation with her told me that A: she had no idea how to work that camera (meant for photography enthusiasts) and B: all she wanted/needed was a camera to take pictures of her grandkids and email them to people. She never even planned on printing the photos. I got her set up with a Kodak with an easy docking system, which was even more than she needed, but to hear the sales manager, I might as well have stolen $1,000 from the store (or more, because he would have gotten her to buy several accessories as well). I couldn't do it for all that long. Again, that's not all sales jobs, but it is pretty common, and I couldn't work in a field designed to screw people over.

Are you sure it wasn't your sales manager being a) a bad person and b) the one that's bad at his job?

 

[smoneil]

Are you sure it wasn't your sales manager being a) a bad person and b) the one that's bad at his job?

Could just be company culture, but he was no different from any of the other sales managers that I had while working there.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Could just be company culture, but he was no different from any of the other sales managers that I had while working there.

Yeah, some companies are toxic, but who knows you'd know better than me.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I had a recruiter reach out for one of the better fits for a role and it's for ESPN+. It's for a manager role too, so a step up. This is the first role that someone has reached out to me since starting my new job that I've genuinely been excited about.

Update: Got an interview!

 

[Doctyl]

I get my first real job tomorrow. I can’t wait to find out where I’m going after being in school for so long.

 

[LokiDog]

Well amigos, you’ll have to forgive me, as I’m mildly intoxicated now, but I think I’ve hit a mini breaking point with regards to the whole “career” business…

Since separating from the military it hasn’t been easy to find good roles. Part of that being that I did college before the military (got a useless journalism degree, back in 2009) and separated from the military older than most but without having gone to school specifically *for* what I wanted to do next. I have a bit of experience in sales and a bit of experience as a UX/web designer. I left a decent gig out in Idaho to come back to NY - because our child is on the way and this where all our family is - for a project management job in NY. I made the move across country because I had this job lined up. And today they let me go because they decided that, even though I have the product development/UX experience they need and adequate project management skills, my PM style is “too military” and not conducive to their creative environment.

Which puts me at 35 years old, 2 months from being a father, and unemployed. And my resume is a hodge podge of sales, UX and military leadership from police/SWAT/special operations, that doesn’t translate into much for me in the civilian world. I don’t really want to be a cop again, but there is virtually nothing I can find that isn’t entry level, and frankly? I can’t support a wife and child in NY, in this economy, in ANY entry level gig. Yes, my wife works when she’s not 8 months pregnant. Still.

I’m super intelligent and hard working. Honestly. I crushed my SATs back in the day, my test scores, IQ tests, aptitude tests, etc. are off the charts. I have no meaningful civilian experience and it’s killing me and I can’t take some bullshit entry level job designed for a 23 year old because I have a family and bills and such. I never should have left the military. And I feel so f***ed right now and just so fed up with the application/hiring process and that state of the modern job market/economy.

Feeling very hopeless and angry tonight.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

sent you a PM...

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Well amigos, you’ll have to forgive me, as I’m mildly intoxicated now, but I think I’ve hit a mini breaking point with regards to the whole “career” business…

Since separating from the military it hasn’t been easy to find good roles. Part of that being that I did college before the military (got a useless journalism degree, back in 2009) and separated from the military older than most but without having gone to school specifically *for* what I wanted to do next. I have a bit of experience in sales and a bit of experience as a UX/web designer. I left a decent gig out in Idaho to come back to NY - because our child is on the way and this where all our family is - for a project management job in NY. I made the move across country because I had this job lined up. And today they let me go because they decided that, even though I have the product development/UX experience they need and adequate project management skills, my PM style is “too military” and not conducive to their creative environment.

Which puts me at 35 years old, 2 months from being a father, and unemployed. And my resume is a hodge podge of sales, UX and military leadership from police/SWAT/special operations, that doesn’t translate into much for me in the civilian world. I don’t really want to be a cop again, but there is virtually nothing I can find that isn’t entry level, and frankly? I can’t support a wife and child in NY, in this economy, in ANY entry level gig. Yes, my wife works when she’s not 8 months pregnant. Still.

I’m super intelligent and hard working. Honestly. I crushed my SATs back in the day, my test scores, IQ tests, aptitude tests, etc. are off the charts. I have no meaningful civilian experience and it’s killing me and I can’t take some bullshit entry level job designed for a 23 year old because I have a family and bills and such. I never should have left the military. And I feel so f***ed right now and just so fed up with the application/hiring process and that state of the modern job market/economy.

Feeling very hopeless and angry tonight.

I'm sorry to hear. I have a similar but in my case simpler experience to yours. Here's a long winded breakdown:

Between the middle of May of 2016 and the end of December of 2018 I was out of work for a year and a half in a two and a half year period, non-consecutively. I was out of work for a year between May of 2016 and May of 2017 and when I got a job it was as an IT project management and it was the worst experience of my life because I had no idea what I was doing. It was a contract role and halfway through they were going to terminate the contract but the accounting team saw I was good at excel and kept me on. All in all I had a one year stint there and they didn't renew my contract.

Then I had 6 months of unemployment and this is more relevant to you. I thought that I would be getting a bunch of interviews because I did ok the first time and gained impressive sounding experience. Over 6 months I interviewed with three or four companies. One or two I got by applying, one I got because I knew someone at the company, and one I got because my friend interviewed there thought the salary was too low and recommended me. My resume was broken. I had a hodge podge of marketing experience that's not really relevant anywhere where I was applying and PM and corporate finance experience. I had no cohesive story. My first job was in ad sales and really only relevant for research jobs for networks but these were not jobs I wanted or was applying to. My next job was made up by my manager in that specific company and not very transferable. My next job was a mix of research that's used in some specific roles that wasn't necessarily where I was applying for either and product marketing that I WAS applying to but didn't have enough experience in. Then I had this weird pivot to project management and corporate finance that I only did for 6 months each and wasn't applying to.

Enter the lifeline...that last role that I mentioned that I interviewed for that my friend rejected and recommended me was for a credit analyst role that paid get this...35k, in Jersey City. They ended up interviewing me for that role and a business intelligence role for the same amount (ended up 45k and after several raises 52.5k). They gave me a basic excel quiz during the interview (vlookup, sumif, averageif), I later learned that the reason my colleague and I got the job was because we were the only ones to do well on this basic quiz, he had a 2 out of 3 and I had 3 out of 3, we did better than anyone else. This was the bar when I knew excel better than my boss. Anyway, I got the role, it wasn't real business intelligence, it was simple excel reporting. But they saw I was good at excel and probably because I had an MBA decided to change business development into FP&A, which is corporate finance. And this was legit FP&A, shit that was extremely transferrable for financial services in particular. Ironically it was actually the type of role I recruited for in business school but couldn't get. Next time I looked for a job I was getting a constant stream of interviews, one after the other. I think I interviewed with like 30 companies (over like a 10 month period, it still took a long time), including one where I got final round but didn't get for 130k (for very similar work as my 52.5k job). I ended up getting two job offers for 90k plus bonus. I'm getting recruiters reach out to me (probably in part due to my title of Senior Financial Analyst being in demand), I just interviewed for a manager role at ESPN+ (I bombed it but that's a different story). My resume has officially been fixed and I have a career. I don't LOVE my job and sometimes I hate it, but sure as hell beats not having a career and being unemployed.

TL/DR

Point I'm making is that if there's any way you have savings and would be able to take a junior role in something that could quickly grow into a 6 figure job after a year or two I'd look into it, I started getting these interviews a year and half after I started my job and got the two offers two and a half years in. I lived with my parents and had no wife and kids, so I understand it's much more complicated for you but if you can tap into some savings it might be worth it in the long run.

 

[smoneil]

Well amigos, you’ll have to forgive me, as I’m mildly intoxicated now, but I think I’ve hit a mini breaking point with regards to the whole “career” business…

Since separating from the military it hasn’t been easy to find good roles. Part of that being that I did college before the military (got a useless journalism degree, back in 2009) and separated from the military older than most but without having gone to school specifically *for* what I wanted to do next. I have a bit of experience in sales and a bit of experience as a UX/web designer. I left a decent gig out in Idaho to come back to NY - because our child is on the way and this where all our family is - for a project management job in NY. I made the move across country because I had this job lined up. And today they let me go because they decided that, even though I have the product development/UX experience they need and adequate project management skills, my PM style is “too military” and not conducive to their creative environment.

Which puts me at 35 years old, 2 months from being a father, and unemployed. And my resume is a hodge podge of sales, UX and military leadership from police/SWAT/special operations, that doesn’t translate into much for me in the civilian world. I don’t really want to be a cop again, but there is virtually nothing I can find that isn’t entry level, and frankly? I can’t support a wife and child in NY, in this economy, in ANY entry level gig. Yes, my wife works when she’s not 8 months pregnant. Still.

I’m super intelligent and hard working. Honestly. I crushed my SATs back in the day, my test scores, IQ tests, aptitude tests, etc. are off the charts. I have no meaningful civilian experience and it’s killing me and I can’t take some bullshit entry level job designed for a 23 year old because I have a family and bills and such. I never should have left the military. And I feel so f***ed right now and just so fed up with the application/hiring process and that state of the modern job market/economy.

Feeling very hopeless and angry tonight.

Have you checked out any defense contractors? My mom works for a small one, and they end up with all kinds of positions for government contracts, and being "too military" is seen (as it should be) as a positive rather than a drawback. A lot of the jobs are remote as well--her entire company is remote.

 

[Kane One]

Well amigos, you’ll have to forgive me, as I’m mildly intoxicated now, but I think I’ve hit a mini breaking point with regards to the whole “career” business…

Since separating from the military it hasn’t been easy to find good roles. Part of that being that I did college before the military (got a useless journalism degree, back in 2009) and separated from the military older than most but without having gone to school specifically *for* what I wanted to do next. I have a bit of experience in sales and a bit of experience as a UX/web designer. I left a decent gig out in Idaho to come back to NY - because our child is on the way and this where all our family is - for a project management job in NY. I made the move across country because I had this job lined up. And today they let me go because they decided that, even though I have the product development/UX experience they need and adequate project management skills, my PM style is “too military” and not conducive to their creative environment.

Which puts me at 35 years old, 2 months from being a father, and unemployed. And my resume is a hodge podge of sales, UX and military leadership from police/SWAT/special operations, that doesn’t translate into much for me in the civilian world. I don’t really want to be a cop again, but there is virtually nothing I can find that isn’t entry level, and frankly? I can’t support a wife and child in NY, in this economy, in ANY entry level gig. Yes, my wife works when she’s not 8 months pregnant. Still.

I’m super intelligent and hard working. Honestly. I crushed my SATs back in the day, my test scores, IQ tests, aptitude tests, etc. are off the charts. I have no meaningful civilian experience and it’s killing me and I can’t take some bullshit entry level job designed for a 23 year old because I have a family and bills and such. I never should have left the military. And I feel so f***ed right now and just so fed up with the application/hiring process and that state of the modern job market/economy.

Feeling very hopeless and angry tonight.

Copy and paste this to LinkedIn if you have one. I see plenty of posts like this that blow up.

 

[Chaels Arms]

Well amigos, you’ll have to forgive me, as I’m mildly intoxicated now, but I think I’ve hit a mini breaking point with regards to the whole “career” business…

Since separating from the military it hasn’t been easy to find good roles. Part of that being that I did college before the military (got a useless journalism degree, back in 2009) and separated from the military older than most but without having gone to school specifically *for* what I wanted to do next. I have a bit of experience in sales and a bit of experience as a UX/web designer. I left a decent gig out in Idaho to come back to NY - because our child is on the way and this where all our family is - for a project management job in NY. I made the move across country because I had this job lined up. And today they let me go because they decided that, even though I have the product development/UX experience they need and adequate project management skills, my PM style is “too military” and not conducive to their creative environment.

Which puts me at 35 years old, 2 months from being a father, and unemployed. And my resume is a hodge podge of sales, UX and military leadership from police/SWAT/special operations, that doesn’t translate into much for me in the civilian world. I don’t really want to be a cop again, but there is virtually nothing I can find that isn’t entry level, and frankly? I can’t support a wife and child in NY, in this economy, in ANY entry level gig. Yes, my wife works when she’s not 8 months pregnant. Still.

I’m super intelligent and hard working. Honestly. I crushed my SATs back in the day, my test scores, IQ tests, aptitude tests, etc. are off the charts. I have no meaningful civilian experience and it’s killing me and I can’t take some bullshit entry level job designed for a 23 year old because I have a family and bills and such. I never should have left the military. And I feel so f***ed right now and just so fed up with the application/hiring process and that state of the modern job market/economy.

Feeling very hopeless and angry tonight.

Totally get where you're coming from and I know many people who have been in a similar situation as you by virtue of being ex-military, ex-cop or a combination of both.

And totally understand not wanting to go back to being a cop. In my previous job I interacted with many NYPD officers on a daily basis and got to become friends with quite a few. The amount that have left that career is staggering. Like, probably 75% or higher of people I know in just the past three years, although a large number of these didn't really leave the job but rather joined non-NYC police departments.

It really depends on what you want and need in your life. You need to prioritize, plan and pick areas where you are willing to make sacrifices. Do you have the willingness or ability to go back to school on either a part time or full time basis? How much money do you really need to be bringing in? Do you and your family need health insurance? Can you do both work and school at the same time; maybe work a decent paying job to get you through while schooling for a new field/higher paying career?

I know there are a ton of what you could describe as "cop adjacent" or "criminal justice related" careers that my friends went into. Almost all of them like their new jobs better than their old ones even though for some of them it was a large pay cut. Here are some jobs I've seen ex-mil/ex-cops go into fairly quickly that they liked and that usually pay equal or more than the BS entry level jobs you referenced and come with good benefits.

Court officer (awesome job all around especially once you accumulate time)
Child services agent (very tough emotionally but can also be rewarding)
Probation officer
Police communications tech (big pay reduction to start but you're a little bit removed from all the BS)
EMS/paramedic (big pay reduction, extremely tough job but can be rewarding and some people like having the option to work non-regular hours)

And, this is a stretch because it would require more schooling, but the market for nurses is completely insane right now and likely will be for years. I have a friend who just started travel nursing with minimal nursing experience and the amount of money he is making puts a lot of doctors and lawyers to shame. If you have any sort of education benefits from your military service that is something I would consider.

Also, if you have anything in writing saying they rescinded your offer due to your prior military service I would consider reaching out to an employment discrimination attorney and just running your facts by them to see if there's something there as I know there are laws preventing employers from discriminating based on military service.

 

[CasusBelli]

I've actually been considering taking a position in sales. It's not my dream job but nobody said I have to do it the rest of my life.

Here's my thing, though, and maybe it's a dumb question because I know nothing about it: they're mostly no experience required because they give you training, and you start at $65k base. Like... what's the catch?

Most jobs start you part-time at shit pay. It can't be this easy. There has to be a red flag I'm missing.

At least in the finance world, the catch is that if you don’t meet your quarterly quotas, you’re out of the job. You can make hundreds of thousands, even millions, if you’re among the elite — but very few get to that point. Again, though, that’s Wall Street.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

@Loki Dog 74 I don't know what you did in the military or if the folks I know were engineers or something, but I know that business school really values military personnel. I'm not recommending you shell out 50k a year+ for business school, but you'd think a lot of business careers would value that experience and maybe you can tap into a veteran's network, there are many for business school students.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

So I got an interview with Amazon. The problem is that while the JD said NYC, it's for positions in other cities. While Seattle would be high on my list of cities to live in I don't know about making the move right now, I just bought an apartment for example. On the other hand I feel like I've been going through the motions lately.

 

[Synergy27]

So I got an interview with Amazon. The problem is that while the JD said NYC, it's for positions in other cities. While Seattle would be high on my list of cities to live in I don't know about making the move right now, I just bought an apartment for example. On the other hand I feel like I've been going through the motions lately.

I’d highly recommend spending a significant amount of time in whatever city you’re potentially relocating to before diving in. If the PNW is on your list, go in February and make sure you still like it. I truly love that region but it’s really not for everyone.