Confirmed Signing with Link: [CAR/MTL] Habs accept Kotkaniemi offer sheet (1 year, $6.1M), 2022 1st, 2022 3rd [Part III]

[Frank Drebin]

yes, he absolutely fits into long-term plans at that cap hit

the only people complaining about his performance in carolina are habs fans which is really weird

I'm not complaining. Just asking an honest question. What is it about him that makes him more valuable than Warren Foegele, in your opinion, to justify the 1m extra in cap hit?

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I'm not complaining. Just asking an honest question. What is it about him that makes him more valuable than Warren Foegele, in your opinion, to justify the 1m extra in cap hit?

Potential. Its all about his ceiling is much higher than Foegele’s. This management team cares as much about the long term winner as a one year cup favorite. Bear and Kotkaniemi were long term moves.

Take the pressure off, take him out of the center spot, let him grow and gain confidence. Hopefully profit.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Or just maybe Carolina fans are in denial as they need to find a reason to justify it.

 

[Tryamw]

Because this year We have Trocheck and Nino Next year I expect we'll at most have 1 of those 2. we are making a bet that JK can succeed one of them. Maybe it doesn't work out..
In which case we spent something on a guy that didn't work out.. like Foligno last season.
We are quite willing as a team to cut bait.. (See Dougie Hamilton, Ferland, Elias Lindholm, Noah Hanafin, Jake Bean, Nedjelkovic )
Could it end up poorly? Sure.. We could still wind up with a top 10 pick that Montreal would salivate over..
I just don't expect that outcome to be likely. More likely he asks for 6 million and we tell him to pound sand..
Course I could demand to be paid 6 million by the Carolina Hurricanes and they would rightfully tell me the same thing. (more likely laugh in my face)
Foegele is a worker bee a very good one but he is no center... Never has been never will be one.. and JK has a chance to be able to replace Trocheck.. so far he hasn't and either way I expect he'd be a loss of production.. Beyond that Jordan Staal isn't a young man

 

[the halleJOKEL]

I'm not complaining. Just asking an honest question. What is it about him that makes him more valuable than Warren Foegele, in your opinion, to justify the 1m extra in cap hit?

you are very focused on cap hit when the extra money this year is essentially the cost of acquiring the player. you need to consider as if it is a 3m contract plus 3m and draft picks to montreal (not literally money to montreal, of course) to acquire his rights

loved foegele, but kotkaniemi clearly has more potential to contribute up the lineup through 9 games.

 

[Husqvarna]

Crash and burn just crash and burn Montreal-fans; I've always thought that the Toronto-lot (Toronto once worldwide famous for just two things; their hockey players ... and their hookers) was the worst in Canadadada. Badlands. Stiff upper lip and that a plenty.
But you've in Montreal prove me (way) wrong. Oui, oui.

The jumpin' jack flashin' that you do on Jesperi Kotkaniemis pretty face I can't dig - even for a moment.

Even when he has left the murky waters of your Molson 5% beer building you try to hunt him ... down. Even in Carolina.

When your huntin' object instead should realistically be his replacement Christian Dvorak of Arizona desert rat fame with -10 on his account; with -5 in the last (home-) game alone.

Badlands, Canada, badlands ...

 

[japhi]

so besides some rumors there's no evidence of him staying whatsoever?

Not only that, Dundon is on record saying KK was a last minute play, that they missed a bunch of other opportunities and he was somewhat of a last resort, take a chance deal.

That doesn’t jive with “mid term agreement in place” and Dundon doesn’t seem like an owner that would commit 12-15mm mid term to a player that is such an unknown.

I think the agreement in place rumours are there to distract from the fact they have little control over the player. Which is fine, but let’s drop the fantasy that there is a set agreement in place. Early in the year the rumours said 4x4, so lets see if 4x4 happens. Because he isn’t a 4x4 player today.

 

[Incubajerks]

Not only that, Dundon is on record saying KK was a last minute play, that they missed a bunch of other opportunities and he was somewhat of a last resort, take a chance deal.

That doesn’t jive with “mid term agreement in place” and Dundon doesn’t seem like an owner that would commit 12-15mm mid term to a player that is such an unknown.

I think the agreement in place rumours are there to distract from the fact they have little control over the player. Which is fine, but let’s drop the fantasy that there is a set agreement in place. Early in the year the rumours said 4x4, so lets see if 4x4 happens. Because he isn’t a 4x4 player today.

 

[Tryamw]

Not only that, Dundon is on record saying KK was a last minute play, that they missed a bunch of other opportunities and he was somewhat of a last resort, take a chance deal.

That doesn’t jive with “mid term agreement in place” and Dundon doesn’t seem like an owner that would commit 12-15mm mid term to a player that is such an unknown.

I think the agreement in place rumours are there to distract from the fact they have little control over the player. Which is fine, but let’s drop the fantasy that there is a set agreement in place. Early in the year the rumours said 4x4, so lets see if 4x4 happens. Because he isn’t a 4x4 player today.

And I doubt Carolina would pay that if he were not...
As for last minute yeah but long enough that they tried to trade him from Montreal and got told no..

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Or just maybe Carolina fans are in denial as they need to find a reason to justify it.

How are we in denial?

There's not a Canes fan posting in here who has said the following...

- KK is totally worth his $6m AAV this year
- KK's play in the first 9 games is commensurate with his salary
- This will 100% slam dunk work out perfectly and there is no risk involved
- Canes didn't pay anything to get KK

Here's what we are saying...

- KK isn't worth $6m AAV now or probably in the next few years. This was a 1 year gambit to make sure that MTL wouldn't match
- During the fist 9 games, KK is playing hard, doing the right things. He's not showing up on the scoresheet a ton but he's helping win games. It's not worth $6m but it we also weren't expecting that
- There's definitely a chance all of this doesn't work out and KK goes to UFA. The $6m QO is not on the table unless he absolutely explodes the rest of the year. If he plays well, the Canes will pay him. If he doesn't then he goes UFA and someone else will pay him, although it probably won't be much
- Canes paid a 1st and a 3rd for KK and that's no joke... but it's also cheaper than what Bergevin would let him go for in a trade so there's that

We like the player. We like the potential. He's 21 years old and with the support system and team structure in Carolina obviously the org thinks he can be a valuable piece moving forward. If he turns out to be a center... great! Trochek might not be back next year and as mentioned, Staal, while still very effective is in the back 9 of his career. If he ends up being a winger... great! Nino is probably gone next year and that would give us a forward group of Aho, TT, Svech, Necas, KK, Jarvis moving forward. Maybe Jarvis becomes our 2C. Who knows.

Anyway, we don't need to find reasons to justify anything here. It's all laid out and while it might not be perfect and still have some risk involved, that's hockey and that's life for you. It's certainly far too early to judge the move after 9 reg season games. Once January 1 comes we will see about that extension that insiders have mentioned. Maybe at that point this particular thread can fade into oblivion and we can all go post in a new one.

 

[Canes]

Hopefully when the Habs are selling next offseason, we can trade them back Kotkaniemi for Christian Dvorak who is apparently a massive upgrade.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Hopefully when the Habs are selling next offseason, we can trade them back Kotkaniemi for Christian Dvorak who is apparently a massive upgrade.

Kotkaniemi has zero trade value.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Kotkaniemi has zero trade value.

wasn't Dvorak a -5 last night?

i'm sure a deal can be made around worthless players

 

[Frank Drebin]

wasn't Dvorak a -5 last night?

i'm sure a deal can be made around worthless players

I have no idea, I can't watch that team. They're both worthless for all I'm concerned, maybe Carolina is interested in another center conversion to wing for the lolz.

At least I get to watch the two best players in the world play in my city, winning hockey is a long time coming for Oiler fans.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I have no idea, I can't watch that team. They're both worthless for all I'm concerned, maybe Carolina is interested in another center conversion to wing for the lolz.

At least I get to watch the two best players in the world play in my city, winning hockey is a long time coming for Oiler fans.

Yeah... I guess us Canes fans could only wish to watch a winning hockey team. If only there was some way to know how Carolina is doing this year???

 

[Frank Drebin]

Yeah... I guess us Canes fans could only wish to watch a winning hockey team. If only there was some way to know how Carolina is doing this year???

I'm talking about the Habs, that player took a shot at Dvorak and his supposed -5 last night. I can't watch my own team, they're that terrible.

The silver lining is that I don't have to hear Habs fans blame the crappy lineup anymore for Kotkaniemi's play. He's in a position to succeed in Carolina, no excuses.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I'm talking about the Habs, that player took a shot at Dvorak and his supposed -5 last night. I can't watch my own team, they're that terrible.

The silver lining is that I don't have to hear Habs fans blame the crappy lineup anymore for Kotkaniemi's play. He's in a position to succeed in Carolina, no excuses.

I mean, there's nothing supposed about it. Dvorak WAS a -5 last night.

You watching or not watching the Habs is a you thing that doesn't really concern anyone else.

Kotkaniemi has been fine in Carolina and no one is making excuses for him.

Hope that clears things up for you.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I mean, there's nothing supposed about it. Dvorak WAS a -5 last night.

You watching or not watching the Habs is a you thing that doesn't really concern anyone else.

Kotkaniemi has been fine in Carolina and no one is making excuses for him.

Hope that clears things up for you.

Next time if you want to stay out of a conversation within a thread that doesn't concern you, I'm cool with that. @KingPuckChoo was taking a shot at the habs/habs fans like he usually does and I gave them a reply. No hard feelings against the poster either, calls it the way it is. Both Kotkaniemi and Dvorak are rather useless players.

 

[BrindAmours Army]

I mean, there's nothing supposed about it. Dvorak WAS a -5 last night.

You watching or not watching the Habs is a you thing that doesn't really concern anyone else.

Kotkaniemi has been fine in Carolina and no one is making excuses for him.

Hope that clears things up for you.

I'm pretty sure they were saying that the Habs and Dvorak were both worthless to them.

 

[BrindAmours Army]

I'm talking about the Habs, that player took a shot at Dvorak and his supposed -5 last night. I can't watch my own team, they're that terrible.

The silver lining is that I don't have to hear Habs fans blame the crappy lineup anymore for Kotkaniemi's play. He's in a position to succeed in Carolina, no excuses.

Can definitely understand that. The playoff drought that ended a few years back was a rough period to be a Hurricanes fan. It felt like there was just no hope.

I hope things improve for you!

 

[Frank Drebin]

I'm pretty sure they were saying that the Habs and Dvorak were both worthless to them.

Essentially, yeah. Thanks. And I appreciate the kind words about the team.

 

[ottawa]

Here's what we are saying...

- KK isn't worth $6m AAV now or probably in the next few years. This was a 1 year gambit to make sure that MTL wouldn't match
- During the fist 9 games, KK is playing hard, doing the right things. He's not showing up on the scoresheet a ton but he's helping win games. It's not worth $6m but it we also weren't expecting that
- There's definitely a chance all of this doesn't work out and KK goes to UFA. The $6m QO is not on the table unless he absolutely explodes the rest of the year. If he plays well, the Canes will pay him. If he doesn't then he goes UFA and someone else will pay him, although it probably won't be much
- Canes paid a 1st and a 3rd for KK and that's no joke... but it's also cheaper than what Bergevin would let him go for in a trade so there's that

If KK doesn't take that step forward this year, then there's a good chance the habs wouldn't even have gotten a 1st and a 3rd going forward for him. This could very well be a transaction that the habs end up winning...even more so if they land in the bottom 10 and get to keep their own pick and send Carolina's to Arizona.

 

[BrindAmours Army]

Essentially, yeah. Thanks. And I appreciate the kind words about the team.

Naturally, I don't want them to be TOO good

But I'd prefer if all the teams in the league were fairly close in terms of skill/ability.

 

[LombardiTool]

Cannot believe we are still talking bout this. Let it die already.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

This was the beginning of it where Braves makes a joke about trading KK back to MTL for Dvorak who is apparently a huge upgrade... of course he is not which is where the joke comes in.

Hopefully when the Habs are selling next offseason, we can trade them back Kotkaniemi for Christian Dvorak who is apparently a massive upgrade.

Then Troll guy basically says that the trade would never happen because KK has no value... or worthless I suppose.

Kotkaniemi has zero trade value.

King Puck comes in and mentions that Dvorak was -5 last night and is also worthless so a deal could in fact be reached by trading two worthless non-assets for each other.

wasn't Dvorak a -5 last night?

i'm sure a deal can be made around worthless players

Then Troll guy says he doesn't know about Dvorak's -5 as he doesn't watch the Habs anymore due to them being terrible and in contention for top joke franchise in the NHL. Confirms that KK and Dvorak are both worthless and maybe Carolina would want Dvorak as they could convert him from C to Wing just for fun... so maybe that trade idea IS back on.

Also, makes a comment about Oilers being a winning team and having the two best players.

I have no idea, I can't watch that team. They're both worthless for all I'm concerned, maybe Carolina is interested in another center conversion to wing for the lolz.

At least I get to watch the two best players in the world play in my city, winning hockey is a long time coming for Oiler fans.

I didn't put in my quote but this is where I allude to the fact that Carolina is the best team in the league and we know something about winning. Seeing all the talk of him calling KK worthless was my motivation for the post.

Next time if you want to stay out of a conversation within a thread that doesn't concern you, I'm cool with that. @KingPuckChoo was taking a shot at the habs/habs fans like he usually does and I gave them a reply. No hard feelings against the poster either, calls it the way it is. Both Kotkaniemi and Dvorak are rather useless players.

I'm pretty sure they were saying that the Habs and Dvorak were both worthless to them.

@BrindAmours Army - there was a lot of talk of Dvorak being useless but also KK. Not specific mentioned the Habs being useless but it was alluded to I suppose. KK in fact, is not useless and so I posted to set the record straight.