Proposal: CGY Kadri for CAR Kotkaniemi+

[Backlund]

I want something better than this for Kadri or I'm fine with him playing out his career here. His contract isn't nearly as bad as some people are trying to make it seem.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Anyone saying they're helping Calgary out, Calgary has to retain, or the plus is on the wrong side is delusional.

It's not about what us fans want, it's about how the front office has operated since they took over. They have been allergic to long term, high dollar deals for older guys. Kadri is clearly a far superior player to KK. It's why I said the premise of the deal is solid, but given how the Canes operate, I don't see them doing it without retention, and Calgary won't retain (nor should they).

What's factual is that Carolina took some massive losses this summer and are more of a bubble team than a contender now. Adding a 75 points play driving center at 7M while also clearing out a bad contract would give them a massive boost.

Canes fans need to pick a lane, you can't be anti rental and anti term.

It's not fans, it's the ownership. Guentzel is the first big rental they went after in 6 years. And they've consistently been anti-term for older guys. We fans can say differently, but unless/until the front office changes their stripes, it's pointless.

They literally traded for Burns at age 37 with 3 years remaining, how is Kadri any different here?

Retention for Burns and more risk 5 years vs. 3 years.

I'd love to have Kadri and jettison KK. I'm just saying I don't see the Canes front office doing it because of the reasons I stated.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Why would Carolina want a two way C who would have been second on their team in scoring playing with Zary and Pospisil on a terrible PP?

He’s clearly a dump they are perfectly content with getting annihilated in the first round of the playoffs again, apparently

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Why would Carolina want a two way C who would have been second on their team in scoring playing with Zary and Pospisil on a terrible PP?

He’s clearly a dump they are perfectly content with getting annihilated in the first round of the playoffs again, apparently

Man, for being so smug, you couldn't even get the info correct. Carolina has made it to at least the 2nd round of the playoffs for six straight years.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

It's not about what us fans want, it's about how the front office has operated since they took over. They have been allergic to long term, high dollar deals for older guys. Kadri is clearly a far superior player to KK. It's why I said the premise of the deal is solid, but given how the Canes operate, I don't see them doing it without retention, and Calgary won't retain (nor should they).

It's not fans, it's the ownership. Guentzel is the first big rental they went after in 6 years. And they've consistently been anti-term for older guys. We fans can say differently, but unless/until the front office changes their stripes, it's pointless.

Retention for Burns and more risk 5 years vs. 3 years.

I'd love to have Kadri and jettison KK. I'm just saying I don't see the Canes front office doing it because of the reasons I stated.

I get your argument and what i said was not directed at you but instead the people here basically implying Calgary is trying to dump Kadri. That's also why I said this is probably more of an in-season thing. The fact of the matter is that Carolina has a clear hole at 2C. They are trying to stay in contention but are banking on one of Kuznetsov, Roslovic, or Kotkaniemi to take the reins at 2C. Maybe they try Jarvis or Necas there and one of them works out instead. But if we are in like January and Kadri has more points than all 3 of Kuzy, Roslo, and KK combined I would not be surprised if Tulsky explored a deal like this. It's not like Kadri isn't movable in the later years of his deal either as his contract becomes a M-NTC.

 

[stl76]

Kadri just put up 75 points playing with 2 rookies on a team with only 1 other NHL center. Trading him would be really dumb unless we're getting an actual return. Kotkaniemi is a cap dump. I'd want a real return with no retention or I'd be keeping him. He's due to expire right around where we start to get competitive again anyway and is our only legit top 6 C. We just saw the ghost of Monahan get paid a similar amount and he returned a 1st at the TDL.

How did he do the year before again? I'm sure he wont regress at all in the next 5 years during his age 34-38 seasons!

I know capfriendly is down now, but please do look up the retention and term left on Monahan's contract when he was traded.

That contract is at least 1.5M under market for Kadri.

You are completely out to lunch.

 

[blankall]

Man, for being so smug, you couldn't even get the info correct. Carolina has made it to at least the 2nd round of the playoffs for six straight years.

And kadri is a proven playoff performer with a cup. If Carolina is competing for the next three years, picking up kadri perfectly fits that window.

The flames really like Kadri's contributions as a mentor. They don't see him as a cap dump and aren't trading him for a cap dump.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

How did he do the year before again? I'm sure he wont regress at all in the next 5 years during his age 34-38 seasons!

I know capfriendly is down now, but please do look up the retention and term left on Monahan's contract when he was traded.


You are completely out to lunch.

No he really isn't. His market value this season was absolutely 1.5M above his current salary

 

[Blueline Bomber]

And kadri is a proven playoff performer with a cup. If Carolina is competing for the next three years, picking up kadri perfectly fits that window.

The flames really like Kadri's contributions as a mentor. They don't see him as a cap dump and aren't trading him for a cap dump.

That’s fine, it’s not Canes fans that made the proposal. If you want to keep him, keep him. Carolina has no interest in trading for him with the contract he has at the age he’s at.

Also, Kadri has proven he can play in the playoffs…until he catches a suspension for doing something stupid. Then what use is he to his team?

 

[Jamaican Patty]

Kotkaniemi has negative value, Carolina should just buy him out.

 

[belair]

This would be a smart trade from Calgary's perspective. Especially if Carolina was willing to give some value.

Kotkaniemi would likely thrive offensively in Calgary with the increased playing time and responsibility. He'd probably get an upgrade in wingers, too.

Maybe something like KK, Suzuki and a protected 1st? It's hard to see Kadri's value ever exceeding that return. And Kotkaniemi, ignoring the cap hit, is still a young player capable of rounding into a reliable two-way center. Calgary is a team that's in a position to give a player like him the role to do just that.

 

[BrokenFace]

Kadri's contract was a mistake for the Flames. Why wouldn't it be a mistake for any team trading for him?

 

[belair]

Kadri's contract was a mistake for the Flames. Why wouldn't it be a mistake for any team trading for him?

It was a mistake for the Flames because it was obvious they were a team due to regress into the middle. What value did a 30+ center add to a team that was headed into a 6+ year rebuild?

Kadri is a player that augments a competitive roster. You see the kind of impact he makes on a deeper roster when he was in Colorado.

 

[stl76]

No he really isn't. His market value this season was absolutely 1.5M above his current salary
View attachment 894751

1) Posting a picture without citation or explanation is not an argument

2) This is just completely detached from reality. Term exists and is a thing, as is age. Nobody is signing Kadri a 34 year old Kadri to a $9 million dollar contract. Not for 1 year and certainly not for 5 more years. Kadri having a bounce back season after an abysmal one does not mean he is suddenly worth $9 million dollars just because somebody's predictive model that likely ignores crucial data such as age says it is.

What did this person's predictive model say Kadri's value was going in to last season? Was that number any less "correct" than this one?

 

[Double Dion]

It was a mistake for the Flames because it was obvious they were a team due to regress into the middle. What value did a 30+ center add to a team that was headed into a 6+ year rebuild?

Kadri is a player that augments a competitive roster. You see the kind of impact he makes on a deeper roster when he was in Colorado.

I'm fine with the Kadri contract. If no one else wants it he's perfect insulation for a young roster. I do think if we move him a lot of the opinions here will look pretty silly. I think there's value in his deal. I also think there's value in Weegar. Substantial value. Those 2 help you win hockey games and can be used in all situations.

Huberdeau is a different story. I think it's unlikely we could give him away retaining 50%.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

1) Posting a picture without citation or explanation is not an argument

2) This is just completely detached from reality. Term exists and is a thing, as is age. Nobody is signing Kadri a 34 year old Kadri to a $9 million dollar contract. Not for 1 year and certainly not for 5 more years. Kadri having a bounce back season after an abysmal one does not mean he is suddenly worth $9 million dollars just because somebody's predictive model that likely ignores crucial data such as age says it is.

What did this person's predictive model say Kadri's value was going in to last season? Was that number any less "correct" than this one?

That picture is from the Athletic's yearly players cards. It's not just some random nobody.

 

[stl76]

That picture is from the Athletic's yearly players cards. It's not just some random nobody.

I understand, and Kadri did have a great bounce back season.

BUT that good season does not add enough surplus value to Kadri’s contract to overcome factors like age and term. The poster I quoted said Kadri’s contract was under his market value…which, I’m sorry, is absolute nonsense.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I get your argument and what i said was not directed at you but instead the people here basically implying Calgary is trying to dump Kadri. That's also why I said this is probably more of an in-season thing. The fact of the matter is that Carolina has a clear hole at 2C. They are trying to stay in contention but are banking on one of Kuznetsov, Roslovic, or Kotkaniemi to take the reins at 2C. Maybe they try Jarvis or Necas there and one of them works out instead. But if we are in like January and Kadri has more points than all 3 of Kuzy, Roslo, and KK combined I would not be surprised if Tulsky explored a deal like this. It's not like Kadri isn't movable in the later years of his deal either as his contract becomes a M-NTC.

I don't disagree with anything you said other than the bold. You could be right, but until I see the Canes make a move like this, I'm skeptical they will. Maybe they'll change their stripes, as they certainly did this year for rentals with Guentzel, but I'm in the "I'll believe it when I see it" group.

 

[belair]

I understand, and Kadri did have a great bounce back season.

BUT that good season does not add enough surplus value to Kadri’s contract to overcome factors like age and term. The poster I quoted said Kadri’s contract was under his market value…which, I’m sorry, is absolute nonsense.

Kadri's age and term are mostly being offset by the movement of Kotkaniemi's inefficient contract. They'd be adding him at a net $2.2m for the entirety for the deal.

Depends how much Carolina values adding the top six C. Them taking a flyer on Kuznetzov kind of suggests they might be looking for more pop from their offense.

 

[belair]

I'm fine with the Kadri contract. If no one else wants it he's perfect insulation for a young roster. I do think if we move him a lot of the opinions here will look pretty silly. I think there's value in his deal. I also think there's value in Weegar. Substantial value. Those 2 help you win hockey games and can be used in all situations.

Huberdeau is a different story. I think it's unlikely we could give him away retaining 50%.

His contract is fair until it inevitably isn't. There's a risk of regression that is likely somewhere in the remaining term. I think there are deals like OPs where the player and contract could make sense for a more competitive team. But I think the market for the player will remain limited until Calgary is willing to facilitate the cap and term.

My point was Calgary locking into a longterm deal with a veteran Kadri made zero sense from the get go. I understand there was a wide expectation that Calgary was going to somehow improve after that offseason. But realistically there's no bouncing back from losing two impact players in one summer.

As for Huberdeau, I'm sure you'd have a laundry list of suitors for him at under $6m. But I fail to see the benefit for Calgary.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I understand, and Kadri did have a great bounce back season.

BUT that good season does not add enough surplus value to Kadri’s contract to overcome factors like age and term. The poster I quoted said Kadri’s contract was under his market value…which, I’m sorry, is absolute nonsense.

And as I've said in This thread this thread this is probably more of a mid season deal if at all. If we're half way through the season and Kadri is sitting at .85 ppg or better on a bottom feeding tea. Like Calgary then it's far more likely his first year with the Flames was simply a new contract slump and the anomaly.

Kadri's performance last year was undoubtedly above his current cap hit. That isn't up for debate. Outside of the first 9 games of the season (where he just didn't look like he was trying) nothing in his game points to him regressing due to age any time soon.

 

[Double Dion]

His contract is fair until it inevitably isn't. There's a risk of regression that is likely somewhere in the remaining term. I think there are deals like OPs where the player and contract could make sense for a more competitive team. But I think the market for the player will remain limited until Calgary is willing to facilitate the cap and term.

My point was Calgary locking into a longterm deal with a veteran Kadri made zero sense from the get go. I understand there was a wide expectation that Calgary was going to somehow improve after that offseason. But realistically there's no bouncing back from losing two impact players in one summer.

As for Huberdeau, I'm sure you'd have a laundry list of suitors for him at under $6m. But I fail to see the benefit for Calgary.

We definitely see it differently. I don't think we'd have a single interested party in Huberdeau at 6m. He doesn't help you win. Kadri, he helps you win and in tons of different ways.

Huberdeau is a one dimensional 2nd line winger. Kadri helps you win even if he didn't score and he very much still scores at a 1st line rate.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Not interested at all in Kotkaniemi. He sucks.

 

[bert]

Kadri turns 34 in 3 months, pass. Rather just buy out kk than take on that awful contract. Kadri has a season left of production left and then age regression begins.

Lol that's an unbelievable deal for Carolina. Kotkaniemi might have the worst contract in hockey. He's brutal. Major negative asset. He's a borderline nhl player. Kadri while old is still a very good player. His contract could be bad but for now it's actually good. Unlike your teams player.

Would need to be a big add by carolina.

 

[paragon]

I would do this, if I was Carolina. KK is a bust and his contract is going to be an anchor even in years 6, but I think there's a small chance that Kadri is still going to be good value in his last year. And the improvement on year one and 2 is absolutely massive.