Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2023 Off-season

[Ovie's Neighbor]

FWIW Richard Seymour, Logan Mankins and Lawyer Milloy also come to mind. The Pats maybe caused the league rethink contract strategy and the value of picks. But their success obviously hasn’t been repeatable because of the Brady and Belichick factors.

But I agree with you that football is a totally different beast. I can’t think of successful hockey team that operates like this - contracts are guaranteed and most of the guys are timed together for windows. Football is a constant churn (with recent draft picks contributing quickly) outside of a few key positions. Maybe portions of the bottom 6 in hockey are closer, but that’s not really the issue.

It’s also because one player cannot dominate like a QB can. New England was able to keep winning because they had the greatest QB of all time on a pretty team friendly deal. We see how they have struggled since Brady left.

 

[RedRocking]

It’s also because one player cannot dominate like a QB can. New England was able to keep winning because they had the greatest QB of all time on a pretty team friendly deal. We see how they have struggled since Brady left.

Yea, McDavid says hi from his couch watching SCF tonight, lol.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Yea, McDavid says hi from his couch watching SCF tonight, lol.

And Draisatl, who is still the leading goal scorer in the playoffs (by three goals, too) despite four other teams having a full extra round to pad their stats.

McDrai are two of the top four players in the world and they still got bounced in the second round.

 

[Calicaps]

Yea, McDavid says hi from his couch watching SCF tonight, lol.

And Draisatl, who is still the leading goal scorer in the playoffs (by three goals, too) despite four other teams having a full extra round to pad their stats.

McDrai are two of the top four players in the world and they still got bounced in the second round.

For all the hand-wringing about hi-end talent (and yes, it's needed). This remains the ultimate team sport.

 

[SherVaughn30]

Sorry if already discussed, but anyone have any thoughts about Todd Nelson as an assistant coach for the Caps? Essentially the same path as Carbery, but again with the advantage of familiarity with the org, many of the players, Scott Allen etc.

Not sure if his background makes him appropriate for PowerPlay or defense, though?

Defense. Nelson needs to stay with Hershey to win/develop more.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

Two important notions I'd like to emphasize...

• trading for or signing a mid or high-end 2nd line LW potentially blocks Miro. If you want Bertuzzi/Domi/anyone else in 2LW, they need to be short term, if you think Miro has star potential (which I do).

• solving all this in one month is a bad idea - better to have a range of scenarios under consideration to make for better decision making next summer.

So...

Ovi - Strome - Wilson
xxxx - CMM/Protas - Oshie
Milano - CMM/Protas- Backstrom/xxxx

...gives that flexibility as a starting point for the moment. The decisions can evolve from there (who have we drafted, who have we traded at the draft/before or during FA, what happens with Backstrom).

 

[Devil Dancer]

One of the most interesting things about this coming season will be what Carbery is willing to do with Backstrom. Will he feel compelled to play him in the top 6? Would he bench #19? Will he shift him to wing if the other C options are better?

It will be a tough early test for the young coach.

 

[Roshi]

Two important notions I'd like to emphasize...

• trading for or signing a mid or high-end 2nd line LW potentially blocks Miro. If you want Bertuzzi/Domi/anyone else in 2LW, they need to be short term, if you think Miro has star potential (which I do).

• solving all this in one month is a bad idea - better to have a range of scenarios under consideration to make for better decision making next summer.

So...

Ovi - Strome - Wilson
xxxx - CMM/Protas - Oshie
Milano - CMM/Protas- Backstrom/xxxx

...gives that flexibility as a starting point for the moment. The decisions can evolve from there (who have we drafted, who have we traded at the draft/before or during FA, what happens with Backstrom).

We really dont have a good touch of what we have in Miro yet. Even if he has star potential, he needs time to grow into it. It has been rough couple of years for him and his not there yet.

And If he has it, he will go through a blocker. Sign the 2LW.

Same with CMM. Not ready for hosting his own 2nd line yet. Its Milano-Backy-CMM penciled in for me as a 3rd line.

No need to rush the guys. Playoffs needs to be the goal.

I see the plan pretty straight forward. I dont think its coincidence they signed Jensen, TvR and Milano all back for 3 year deals with front heavy money, while also adding draft capital already into ’25. And knowing a lot of the big contracts ending in 2 years aswell.

They have their core for the next two years trying to push the playoffs and preparing to have as much flexibility into 3rd season as possible. They’ve started giving subtle hints too, with transition talks etc.

We will be promoting couple guys from Hershey into fulltimers next year (CMM, Protas, maybe Malenstyn) and try to get the second line going. By coaching it, or moving guys in it. Defense and goalie are set up, but theres also room to add a D (Orlov) if opportunity and cap space opens up.

Ovie-Strome-Wilson
Mantha/X-Kuznetsov/X-Oshie
Milano-Backy-CMM
NAK-Dowd-Protas
Malenstyn
+ they propably add middle/top six depth knowing this lineup is very injury riddled

Fever-Carlson
Sandin-Jensen
Alexeyev-TvR
Hardy/Iorio
+ Orlov if things go that way

One potential target now as we have the coach, maybe Bunting who Carbery knows from Toronto and had some success there aswell? Not overly excited on the guy, but he might fit the timeline with a front heavy 3-year deal.

 

[MrGone]

The only two trades I remember like that were Jimmy G and Chandler Jones. I’m sure there’s more but what were the ones you were talking about? The Patriots also had Brady. I always thought the pedestal the Patriots were put on was a bit too big. They were worshiped for continuously trading back and getting more draft picks but they were largely ass at drafting for a good period of time. That got masked because Brady was the best player to ever throw a football in the history of the sport. It helps make everyone look good when the player at the most important position in sports is the best of all time.

And hockey is a completely different sport. Football teams find day one starters in every round of the draft and the entire roster building model is around identifying a few guys you want to keep and replacing everyone else with cheaper, younger talent. Which teams in the NHL consistently, on a yearly basis, trade away good players for draft picks and still compete?

The two guys that come to mind are Drew Bledsoe and Joe Staley. For me trading LT Joe Staley would be like moving Mike Green in 2010. Something they should have done. No matter how good a player is. If they cant be on the ice and play at a level you need them to play at when you need them. They are not worth what you think they are. As soon as they starting hitting Green his game fell off the map.

 

[Kalopsia]

You want to trade for a player because he is nice?

No, I want to trade for him because he's basically a better, younger version of Jensen, but I figured people here would know that already. He'd be a much better return for Kuzy than I've expected. Him being nice is just a bonus, as is forcing my Rangers-fan friend to grudgingly root for the Caps because they have his favorite player.

 

[OV Rocks]

Two important notions I'd like to emphasize...

• trading for or signing a mid or high-end 2nd line LW potentially blocks Miro. If you want Bertuzzi/Domi/anyone else in 2LW, they need to be short term, if you think Miro has star potential (which I do).

• solving all this in one month is a bad idea - better to have a range of scenarios under consideration to make for better decision making next summer.

So...

Ovi - Strome - Wilson
xxxx - CMM/Protas - Oshie
Milano - CMM/Protas- Backstrom/xxxx

...gives that flexibility as a starting point for the moment. The decisions can evolve from there (who have we drafted, who have we traded at the draft/before or during FA, what happens with Backstrom).

I think you might be getting a bit ahead of yourself on Miro. Don't get me wrong I am excited for the kid but there is a good chance he doesn't sniff the Caps for 2-3 more years, bold prediction - Ovi will break the record before Miro scores his first as a Cap. I hope I am wrong.

 

[crazy8888]

I think you might be getting a bit ahead of yourself on Miro. Don't get me wrong I am excited for the kid but there is a good chance he doesn't sniff the Caps for 2-3 more years, bold prediction - Ovi will break the record before Miro scores his first as a Cap. I hope I am wrong.

They can give him up to 10 games next year before sending him down. Even if he is terrible he can still manage to score a goal.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

I think you might be getting a bit ahead of yourself on Miro. Don't get me wrong I am excited for the kid but there is a good chance he doesn't sniff the Caps for 2-3 more years, bold prediction - Ovi will break the record before Miro scores his first as a Cap. I hope I am wrong.

I believe Miro absolutely needs a year in the AHL to adjust. Same with whoever we draft.

My point is don't sign a LW that blocks him/whoever we draft. Bertuzzi/Domi will want term. That's the same old recipe for mishandling and stunting prospects, which often leads them to them being traded and blossoming elsewhere. Caps have not had this level of uncertainty in quite a while.

Let GMBM do his sorcery and get a LW who fits on a one year deal and play for their next contract. He is good at identifying those players. It buys us the time to sort out the uncertainty and make more informed decisions next summer. Meanwhile, a team with a new coach and with an injection of maturing youth has potential to overachieve.

We shall see soon which of the two approaches we are discussing is actually the plan is with Carberry now in place...

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

You’re waaay overvaluing our guys and their impact timeline…

They need to make this roster better yesterday, not sit on their hands with mediocre moves and pray a few guys make the NHL early if at all in a few years.

 

[OV Rocks]

I believe Miro absolutely needs a year in the AHL to adjust. Same with whoever we draft.

My point is don't sign a LW that blocks him/whoever we draft. Bertuzzi/Domi will want term. That's the same old recipe for mishandling and stunting prospects, which often leads them to them being traded and blossoming elsewhere. Caps have not had this level of uncertainty in quite a while.

Let GMBM do his sorcery and get a LW who fits on a one year deal and play for their next contract. He is good at identifying those players. It buys us the time to sort out the uncertainty and make more informed decisions next summer. Meanwhile, a team with a new coach and with an injection of maturing youth has potential to overachieve.

We shall see soon which of the two approaches we are discussing is actually the plan is with Carberry now in place...

I also don't think guys like Bertuzzi and Domi truly move the needle at 2LW anyways, guys like Ehlers, Necas, Keller, Bratt, Konecny are where we should be looking at, not UFA guys looking for their big pay day.

On the other side of that, using sorcery to find another Brett Connolly - who if you remember was part of the great Caps 3rd line - is not the way to go. This team is in idle, they need a top 6 winger who can carry a line.

I am all onboard for the youth movement and I might sound like Lavi here, but they do have to earn it. I have gone to a few Hershey games on their playoff run and I have seen others comment here agreeing, Lapierre looks gassed and lost he is not ready for the NHL, somehow the semi-truck of Protas disappears for long stretches even full games which is concerning to me that he isn't ready for a full season (67 GP this year total), Frank thought the season ended when the Caps season ended, I like Snively but he is 27, Iorio is legit but needs another 1-2 years.

It is awesome that Hershey is going on a run but that does not mean the Caps need to infuse their players onto the roster, their experience is what has gotten them to where they are. FYI - the Bears are the oldest team in the AHL at 33!

 

[Cappy76]

In my ideal world this summer goes as follows

Mantha and Kuzy are both moved out

Ehlers is brought in either through the pieces brought in via kuzy/Mantha or themselves

Ufa signing of Bertuzzi

OV-Strome-Ehlers
Bertuzzi-CCM-Wilson
Milano-Backstrom-Oshie
Protas-Dowd-NAK

To me that lineup (*if healthy) is very solid too to bottom and balanced across all 4 lines.

 

[Jags]

On the other side of that, using sorcery to find another Brett Connolly - who if you remember was part of the great Caps 3rd line - is not the way to go. This team is in idle, they need a top 6 winger who can carry a line.

That's kind of a study in perspective though. If we're using sorcery to get what we got from Connolly with the benefit of hindsight, we should always do that, and as many times per season as possible.

We paid less than $1.3 million a year for a guy who cumulatively shot over 18% for us over 3 years despite never establishing any real chemistry with any of his linemates. 46 of the 52 goals he scored were even strength. That's a no-brainer acquisition every time.

Not giving someone like him an opportunity despite his dodgy past and injury concerns when the only thing he had going for him was his draft pedigree isn't all that dissimilar to not playing McMichael and Protas. The only true measure of an NHL player is to play with NHL talent and against NHL talent in NHL games that count.

So yeah, we can make all the "they have to earn it" proclamations we want, but we will absolutely never benefit from the possible upsides of our prospects if we don't give them the chance to play for real. The whole "you just want to gift them a spot" thing is horseshit. No one wants that. What we want is to stop reserving NHL spots for declining, overripe, expensive players.

I'd rather relentlessly pursue someone's potential and upside than to ignorantly embrace the obvious, declining downside of someone else. From a roster-building standpoint, what we've been doing is tactically ridiculous and has cost us big time.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

I'm sure this sort of philosophical discussion came up with Carberry interviews - with probing questions going both ways.

Because of his tight history with the current group of prospects (and some of those that might follow) he probably wants them playing in their most suited roles (C for CMM and Protas). I would suggest choosing him (and his experience working young talant) might signal a new team focus on bringing in young talent from the current system and the draft in the short/medium term.

I don't know if it would have been a deal breaker during Carberry' negotiations, but the notion of filling out the top 6 with Elhers and Bertuzzi on 4 or 5 year deals, and forcing Milo, Suzd, Lapierre, or anyone we draft this year (or entry level talant we trade for) to "go through blocks" probably wasn't where both sides were coming from in nodding agreement.

Another reason I think the GMBM and Carberry are aligned closer to what I have been suggesting over the next year or so is that the Cap is only going up minimally over the next few years. If the Caps are proportionally made up with more ELC talant over those years it really increases the flexibility to fine tune chess moves as we ramp up to Cup contention.

 

[Cappy76]

You hope for miro and sudz to be ready for nhl duty in 2-3 years you don’t bank on it. They absolutely should not be debating on signing or trading for a top 6 player based on these two potentially needing a slot 2-3 years down the road.

If they pan out and develop into a player that deserve a top 6 spot then you make moves. Not before either has played a minute of AHL time.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Would the new coach have the balls to put Backstrom on nacho duty if he plays like he did last season?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Would the new coach have the balls to put Backstrom on nacho duty if he plays like he did last season?

I don’t think that’s a decision he would make alone that’s for sure….

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

I don’t think that’s a decision he would make alone that’s for sure….

Corey Perry a former Hart and Rocket winner plays on the 4th line on winning teams. He does not make his teams suck because he is forcing the team to play him in the top of the lineup. Backstrom should take a slice of humble pie and realize hes not the same player anymore.

 

[Cappy76]

Corey Perry a former Hart and Rocket winner plays on the 4th line on winning teams. He does not make his teams suck because he is forcing the team to play him in the top of the lineup. Backstrom should take a slice of humble pie and realize hes not the same player anymore.

Have I missed where Backstrom has come out and said it’s top 6 or I don’t play? Perry plays in the 4th line because that’s the player he’s been for years .

 

[um]

In my ideal world this summer goes as follows

Mantha and Kuzy are both moved out

Ehlers is brought in either through the pieces brought in via kuzy/Mantha or themselves

Ufa signing of Bertuzzi

OV-Strome-Ehlers
Bertuzzi-CCM-Wilson
Milano-Backstrom-Oshie
Protas-Dowd-NAK

To me that lineup (*if healthy) is very solid too to bottom and balanced across all 4 lines.

I feel like we should avoid the UFA route if we’re already trading for a top 6 winger.

We already got Ovie, Oshie and Backstrom on big deals. Add in Ehlers and Wilson when they hopefully resign.

Let’s leave some wiggle room and not commit to another deal that likely ages poorly. It’s a real shitty UFA market, I don’t want to be the team that pays Bertuzzi like he’s a star.

 

[Cappy76]

I feel like we should avoid the UFA route if we’re already trading for a top 6 winger.

We already got Ovie, Oshie and Backstrom on big deals. Add in Ehlers and Wilson when they hopefully resign.

Let’s leave some wiggle room and not commit to another deal that likely ages poorly. It’s a real shitty UFA market, I don’t want to be the team that pays Bertuzzi like he’s a star.

Wiggle room for what? Backstrom and oshie are off the books in 2 seasons and more than likely retire. Ehlers if he was targeted would also come off the books then. The year after Ovie and Carlson come off the books. You pay now for the 2-3 year end of Ovie campaign then reevaluate from there on what we need with a huge chunk of cap space available to move into post Ovie.

The moves I’m suggesting don’t back us into a corner imo it adds to the competitiveness for a few more seasons. What is star money for Bertuzzi? I’d feel comfortable adding Bertuzzi at 6-7 per and feel that he’d be easily movable in the later years of a contract if they’re starting to go in a different direction by then.