Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

[Brian23]

You and your friend really think you've got a gotcha there, but I'm not sure the content police have a law against talking about people who left and excelled.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Ignore whatever you want to fit your miserable narrative.

 

[Brian23]

Ignore whatever you want to fit your miserable narrative.

What miserable narrative, it's a literal fact. They traded someone, he's now immensely better then he was there. Please tell me where there's "narrative" in that. That's happened enough times to not be some made up narrative.

How about instead of trying to police any discussion you don't like you just don't engage. We were content without the childish tempertantrums.

 

[g00n]

You and your friend really think you've got a gotcha there, but I'm not sure the content police have a law against talking about people who left and excelled.

Nobody said it's against the rules. It's just shit to wade through and more than a little ridiculous, as though a couple of fans think they know more about player development than the people being paid to do it.

The caps obviously saw something in JS or they wouldn't have drafted him. The same people complain about missed draft picks, but again you can look back at previous drafts and see every team misses the same way.

Bottom line is this is transparently a bunch of bitching with little perspective as to how other teams and fanbases feel about the exact same things happening, because those things are just PART OF THE GAME.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

What miserable narrative, it's a literal fact. They traded someone, he's now immensely better then he was there. Please tell me where there's "narrative" in that. That's happened enough times to not be some made up narrative.

How about instead of trying to police any discussion you don't like you just don't engage. We were content without the childish tempertantrums.

You guys are f”ing miserable to sit and read…..that BS. You complain over and over and f‘ing over again and again…..the nonstop negatively is painful.

Nobody is telling you to stop or even asking you so stop the BS policing comments…..but maybe you reflect a little and realize what you’re doing. Or don’t and continue to spew misery day after day and drive users from participation. enjoy the ray of sunshine that is HFTN every day….

 

[pman25]

You guys are f”ing miserable to sit and read…..that BS. You complain over and over and f‘ing over again and again…..the nonstop negatively is painful.

its a discussion board, what do you wanna discuss? There's plenty of circle jerking to be had, but the team stinks right now so yes there will be complaints

 

[twabby]

The moral of the story, once again, is to stop trusting your eyes and to only trust the stats.

These were Siegenthaler's impacts before the trade, his ages 21 and 22 year old seasons:

Spoiler: Siegenthaler isolates

High-end shutdown defensive player, while not really sacrificing much in the way of offense. Easily rates as a first-pairing defender by his age 22 season. Before he was traded and before Chara even came to town.

Unfortunately at the time of the trade I wasn't as well-versed in player isolates vs. on-ice metrics (where he was still very good but I chalked it up to easier deployment). Had I known what I know now about isolated impact statistics I think I would have been ranting against the trade nonstop rather than my lukecold "it's fine if they get a significant piece in a separate trade" (which they also didn't do).

 

[twabby]

Also I think it's perfectly reasonable for internet posters to use hindsight to criticize a move made in the past.

Who cares if I didn't speak out against the trade when it happened? Unlike Brian MacLellan, I'm not paid millions of dollars to get theses types of moves right! He deserves criticism for getting it wrong!

 

[Brian23]

Also I think it's perfectly reasonable for internet posters to use hindsight to criticize a move made in the past.

Who cares if I didn't speak out against the trade when it happened? Unlike Brian MacLellan, I'm not paid millions of dollars to get theses types of moves right! He deserves criticism for getting it wrong!

If that's not allowed, may as well delete the board.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

its a discussion board, what do you wanna discuss? There's plenty of circle jerking to be had, but the team stinks right now so yes there will be complaints

Anything not lost in constant negativity….

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Is it fun for you to keep being reminded of now nice things we no longer have, even if they weren’t that great when we did have them? What purpose does all the constant bitching and moaning here have?

You can already see the lack of activity here because of it. Say anything and you’re immediately attacked. Soon you HFTN and the crew will be here all by yourselves complaining to the wall. Enjoy.

Attacked? Good sir, you attacked me first for merely pointing out how successful some players we had last year have been. I literally posted a screenshot of league leaders with no real commentary associated with it. I think you’re in the wrong in this situation but you do you.

 

[kicksavedave]

Unfortunately at the time of the trade I wasn't as well-versed in player isolates vs. on-ice metrics (where he was still very good but I chalked it up to easier deployment). Had I known what I know now about isolated impact statistics I think I would have been ranting against the trade nonstop rather than my lukecold "it's fine if they get a significant piece in a separate trade" (which they also didn't do).

So its YOUR fault we traded away Siegs? Got it!

Also I think it's perfectly reasonable for internet posters to use hindsight to criticize a move made in the past.

Who cares if I didn't speak out against the trade when it happened? Unlike Brian MacLellan, I'm not paid millions of dollars to get theses types of moves right! He deserves criticism for getting it wrong!

OK, you're off the hook, this time. Try to do better in the future though

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Attacked? Good sir, you attacked me first for merely pointing out how successful some players we had last year have been. I literally posted a screenshot of league leaders with no real commentary associated with it. I think you’re in the wrong in this situation but you do you.

Ok man….maybe that’s part of the problem, your perception. Show me where I “attacked” you. I made a blanket statement to exactly nobody directly, then you and some of your cronies in the misery crew were all immediately up my ass. I didn’t even respond to your post with the leaders and it wasn’t even what was referred to.

If you must know, the post mentioning Sieg and Carlson and the Norris was what really annoyed me. As if Siege at his best someday will EVER be in a real conversation for Norris contention like Carlson was.

 

[RedRocking]

IMHO there’s nothing wrong with talking about how former players are doing elsewhere. Just seems like many revel in pointing out those excelling elsewhere, like they are just looking for reasons to hate the organization and make GMBM/Lavi look like fools.

It’s very “Redskinny” imho, but hey if that’s your opinion of the situation, and makes you excited - more power to you.

Anyways - let’s discuss. The Chara move that forced Siegs out was not crazy. The team was trying to win a Cup (something everyone has wanted since ‘18) in a shortened season. Player development was not the priority. Chara was a “win now” move, and it’s not like he was terrible while here. He totally changed Jensen’s game for the better. In hindsight it’s very easy to say we should have kept Siegs, and yea - it’s a big miss for the org.

But guys like Sprong and Sammy - seems like nothing makes a player more popular around here than leaving the organization. Sammy has played 9 games (to Darcy’s 20), and isn’t necessarily their #1 over Matt Murray (who just blanked the Stars last night w/44 saves). I don’t recall anyone caring much when Sprong was traded - but now he’s apparently the missing piece we always needed. I suppose he’ll be the new Vrana, with guys breathlessly falling over each other to post every time he scores.

 

[Jags]

Ok man….maybe that’s part of the problem, your perception. Show me where I “attacked” you. I made a blanket statement to exactly nobody directly, then you and some of your cronies in the misery crew were all immediately up my ass. I didn’t even respond to your post with the leaders and it wasn’t even what was referred to.

They call it discussion, you call it bitching. The thing I personally find tiresome is this right here^. The bitching about the bitching. And especially when the bitching about the bitching begets more bitching, like a snake eating its tail.

The forum has mods. We don't also need a referee to tell us what's out of bounds, especially ones that draw their own arbitrary lines.

This is why they invented daydrinking.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Ok man….maybe that’s part of the problem, your perception. Show me where I “attacked” you. I made a blanket statement to exactly nobody directly, then you and some of your cronies in the misery crew were all immediately up my ass. I didn’t even respond to your post with the leaders and it wasn’t even what was referred to.

If you must know, the post mentioning Sieg and Carlson and the Norris was what really annoyed me. As if Siege at his best someday will EVER be in a real conversation for Norris contention like Carlson was.

Misery? I’m feeling great today but thank you. Is it misery to talk shop and stats? I don’t get why you think that is pessimistic. I call that fun.

IMHO there’s nothing wrong with talking about how former players are doing elsewhere. Just seems like many revel in pointing out those excelling elsewhere, like they are just looking for reasons to hate the organization and make GMBM/Lavi look like fools.

It’s very “Redskinny” imho, but hey if that’s your opinion of the situation, and makes you excited - more power to you.

Anyways - let’s discuss. The Chara move that forced Seigs out was not crazy. The team was trying to win a Cup (something everyone has wanted since ‘18) in a shortened season. Player development was not the priority. Chara was a “win now” move, and it’s not like he was terrible while here. He totally changed Jensen’s game for the better. In hindsight it’s very easy to say we should have kept Seigs, and yea - it’s a big miss for the org.

But guys like Sprong and Sammy - seems like nothing makes a player more popular around here than leaving the organization. Sammy has played 9 games (to Darcy’s 20), and isn’t necessarily their #1 over Matt Murray (who just blanked the Stars last night w/44 saves). I don’t recall anyone caring much when Sprong was traded - but now he’s apparently the missing piece we always needed. I suppose he’ll be the new Vrana, with guys breathlessly falling over each other to post every time he scores.

I appreciate that instead of just calling people bitchey, that you actually took part in the convo and argued a point. We need more of this and less of the topic policing.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

They call it discussion, you call it bitching. The thing I personally find tiresome is this right here^. The bitching about the bitching. And especially when the bitching about the bitching begets more bitching, like a snake eating its tail.

The forum has mods. We don't also need a referee to tell us what's out of bounds, especially ones that draw their own arbitrary lines.

This is why they invented daydrinking.

I don’t rely on drinking. You call it bitching, I call it trying to make some people aware of the miserable time they’re contributing to our little Caps community here. So yeah I’ll continue to respond as I see fit to this constant drivel, within the same forum rules as everyone else.

 

[895]

The argument that the GM doesn't deserve criticism for his bad moves because the fans on hfboards.com were okay with the move at the time is truly an all time great.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The argument that the GM doesn't deserve criticism for his bad moves because the fans on hfboards.com were okay with the move at the time is truly an all time great.

Literally nobody has this idea or has said that.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

This is the shit that makes these boards unreadable at times….pining over multiple guys who weren’t good enough here.

VV and Sammie were just that for the Caps. I don't regret it one bit, even if one of them lead their teams to a SC.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

VV and Sammie were just that for the Caps. I don't regret it one bit, even if one of them lead their teams to a SC.

Agreed. My original post, criticizes Murray but says I don’t miss them. I’m just perturbed how Murray still has a job.

 

[Hivemind]

If it was just Siegenthaler or just Samsonov, it would be one thing. But it's not. It's Siegenthaler, Samsonov, Vanecek, Stephenson, Sprong, and Burakovsky. (And that's not even touching on the Vrana-Mantha trade.) It's that we see the same patterns regarding inconsistent developmental tracks and veteran roadblocks playing out on the current Capitals roster. It's that management has made this very same mistake several times, and at this point it's very much not a fluke. And it's that management seemingly hasn't learned from making this mistake in the past, and is continuing to repeat the process. It's that management hasn't addressed some of the key individuals behind these issues, despite all the mounting evidence that they're part of the problem.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

I don't want to be perceived as negative, however I do fear a panic move with management moving one of those studs for an older player, declining player. Lapi is lighting up the AHL and Miro is looking to be a steal at this point. We have the prospects in the pipeline coming. The Caps just need to hold on to them and let them develop.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Agreed. My original post, criticizes Murray but says I don’t miss them. I’m just perturbed how Murray still has a job.

Is it really validation of Murray being deficient or simply two guys playing on younger stacked teams? If Keumper regresses big time, I’ll be on board with the Murray angst….Holtby was a regressing (aging/fading) asset his last few seasons here, then the last two G’s. I’m interested to see him work with a front line starter like DK to see what’s up.

i just happen to believe the last two guys were average Joe or head cases when they were here.

 

[Jags]

If it was just Siegenthaler or just Samsonov, it would be one thing. But it's not. It's Siegenthaler, Samsonov, Vanecek, Stephenson, Sprong, and Burakovsky. (And that's not even touching on the Vrana-Mantha trade.) It's that we see the same patterns regarding inconsistent developmental tracks and veteran roadblocks playing out on the current Capitals roster. It's that management has made this very same mistake several times, and at this point it's very much not a fluke. And it's that management seemingly hasn't learned from making this mistake in the past, and is continuing to repeat the process. It's that management hasn't addressed some of the key individuals behind these issues, despite all the mounting evidence that they're part of the problem.

Agreed. And I follow the league pretty closely, so that argument from earlier about how all teams go through these same types of failures doesn't track either. Starting from the Vegas expansion, I don't think another team has given up so much for so little in instances like these.

Mac had a bunch of other trades and acquisitions go well to balance things out pretty well overall, and coaching figured pretty heavily into some of the most costly losses. But when it strictly comes to giving away burgeoning talent for next to nothing, I can't think of another team that really comes all that close to the Caps. If there were a stat for this, I'd lay odds that we were #1 over that time, and I'd be shocked if we weren't top 3.

DISCLAIMER: The observations above are the observational ramblings of a guy that watches too much hockey. They are not intended to contribute to anyone's "miserable time" on "our little Caps community here." If reading discussion forums causes you misery, another hobby might be more advisable. I hear embroidery is fun. Pickleball is apparently also sweeping the nation. I don't know what it is, but hitting pickles with bats (rackets?) sounds like a blast. I feel similarly about whatever the hell "frisbee golf" is. Maybe give that a try.