Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Is it really validation of Murray being deficient or simply two guys playing on younger stacked teams? If Keumper regresses big time, I’ll be on board with the Murray angst….Holtby was a regressing (aging/fading) asset his last few seasons here, then the last two G’s. I’m interested to see him work with a front line starter like DK to see what’s up.

i just happen to believe the last two guys were average Joe or head cases when they were here.

I don’t disagree. I could definitely be wrong. Sammy was a head case but somehow Toronto has allowed him to play a better game. Could be the fact that the Caps defense is suspect and Toronto has a better core in front of him and/or the goalie coach is maximizing his talents. Probably a little of A and B I would guess. Also a small sample size so we will know soon enough.

 

[twabby]

This is just speculation from Friedman, so nothing really connecting the Capitals to Boeser. And I don't personally think this will happen.

But man would this be an awful move. He has a $6,650,000 AAV until 2024-25 and even with full retention I don't think his impacts are worth it.

Similarly I don't think Bo Horvat would be worth it to DC for what he's going to go for. He's on a great shooting bender right now but before this season he's had some very mediocre results.

 

[PlushMinus]

Is it fun for you to keep being reminded of now nice things we no longer have, even if they weren’t that great when we did have them? What purpose does all the constant bitching and moaning here have?

You can already see the lack of activity here because of it. Say anything and you’re immediately attacked. Soon you HFTN and the crew will be here all by yourselves complaining to the wall. Enjoy.

The irony is that very often it's you and even moreso goon who attack people on here....

 

[IafrateOvie34]

My hockey knowledge is not up to par with many of yours but I remember Siegs being out of position and giving up breaks pretty often. He wasn’t bad here but he also wasn’t exactly showing glimpses of the next Makar. Yes it was stupid to give him up for Chara but it happens all the time across the league. Marino is just another example of a cast off that is excelling in NJ.

At the time Chara was signed the Cap's were a front running SC contender so I had no problem with it. The fact is NJ sucked for years and could gamble on trading for players like JT and VV who weren't going to get much ice. The Caps had to deal with cap issues also, so that is always a lingering issue until this offseason. Really, the only trade I regret now is Mantha for Vrana and a 1st, however it's not too bad of a hit. It's hit or miss on that kind of stuff, especially the draft. Also, many of us have watched the best players to ever play NHL hockey during the 70s, 80s, 90s, and 2000s, so it's easy for us to be critical of today's NHL players. Outside, of McDavid, Draisatl, Ovy, and MacKinnon it's hard for me to get engaged with today's NHL. I see a lot of over hyped players on inflated contracts mostly across the league and the physical play has drastically deteriorated league wide for my eyes. Calgary didn't think St. Louis had it in him to be a regular NHLr and he prospered in TB. It's just a hit and miss type of thing. Caps are just at the stage where they can't give out picks and prospects and it happens to every aging NHL team. Remarkably, they are one game behind .500 and still in the race for lower seed. Young or old, playing many back to back games in the NHL will drain a person physically and mentally.

This is just speculation from Friedman, so nothing really connecting the Capitals to Boeser. And I don't personally think this will happen.

But man would this be an awful move. He has a $6,650,000 AAV until 2024-25 and even with full retention I don't think his impacts are worth it.

Similarly I don't think Bo Horvat would be worth it to DC for what he's going to go for. He's on a great shooting bender right now but before this season he's had some very mediocre results.

Agreed and Friedman is clickbait.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

This is just speculation from Friedman, so nothing really connecting the Capitals to Boeser. And I don't personally think this will happen.

But man would this be an awful move. He has a $6,650,000 AAV until 2024-25 and even with full retention I don't think his impacts are worth it.

Similarly I don't think Bo Horvat would be worth it to DC for what he's going to go for. He's on a great shooting bender right now but before this season he's had some very mediocre results.

Please no.

 

[PlushMinus]

If you must know, the post mentioning Sieg and Carlson and the Norris was what really annoyed me. As if Siege at his best someday will EVER be in a real conversation for Norris contention like Carlson was.

I thought - and continue to think - that post about Seigs and the Norris was a joke. Surely it's tongue in cheek. For anybody to actually believe he's in the running or compare him to Makar etc - gotta be out of their minds.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The irony is that very often it's you and even moreso goon who attack people on here....

Sure. Show me all my “attacks”….it’s BS and you know it. Goon is his own man.

 

[Brian23]

This is just speculation from Friedman, so nothing really connecting the Capitals to Boeser. And I don't personally think this will happen.

But man would this be an awful move. He has a $6,650,000 AAV until 2024-25 and even with full retention I don't think his impacts are worth it.

Similarly I don't think Bo Horvat would be worth it to DC for what he's going to go for. He's on a great shooting bender right now but before this season he's had some very mediocre results.

Just makes no sense. Unless they think their center play has been good enough, which says alot more about their talent evaluation then most else would.

 

[PlushMinus]

I don’t recall anyone caring much when Sprong was traded - but now he’s apparently the missing piece we always needed. I suppose he’ll be the new Vrana, with guys breathlessly falling over each other to post every time he scores.

It's not - imho - that Sprong was the missing piece we always needed. It's that anybody who watched him play during his time with the Caps (and before that) knows exactly what he is: an offence first player with a fantastic shot.

Our coach decided that Sprong needed to be more than that, and when he couldn't make him into that kind of player, he benched him and then ultimately Bmac traded him.

The current roster is struggling to score goals. Meanwhile Sprong is playing in Seattle, getting PP time, and is scoring goals (and setting them up with assists). They're utilizing him exactly the way a player like Sprong should be utilized.

Lavi is an idiot who is past his use by date. Bmac did some great things in the past, but he's no longer an effective GM. The org desperately needs to make some changes re: coaching and mgmt. You can't keep doing the same thing over and over again, failing, and not make changes. The team is getting a little worse each season.

 

[Devil Dancer]

Looking back at the players they've lost and the players they've acquired is useful to judge management's decisions. It gets annoying when people harp on the same things over and over, sure, but the org is putting together an impressive track record of underusing assets who then excell elsewhere. No reason not to discuss that.

It doesn't speak well to their internal assessment teams or their pro scouting teams.

 

[g00n]

Also I think it's perfectly reasonable for internet posters to use hindsight to criticize a move made in the past.

Who cares if I didn't speak out against the trade when it happened? Unlike Brian MacLellan, I'm not paid millions of dollars to get theses types of moves right! He deserves criticism for getting it wrong!

You can't accuse GMs of making dumb moves when you had no idea it was a dumb move and your whole schtick is 2nd guessing GMs.

Shit happens. Someone is not always to blame. THAT is what's most irritating about message boards. Everyone is always looking for a scapegoat and someone to fire.

This is a hockey discussion board, not Yelp.

 

[g00n]

The irony is that very often it's you and even moreso goon who attack people on here....

Example please.

I seem to recall you getting pissed off and attacking me because you misinterpreted what I was saying, right? And there are posters here who take backhanded shots at some of us pretty regularly.

If you're not a banned user sneaking back in then you wouldn't know about some of the little ongoing spats we have around here. A few of the people you're siding with are far from innocent, and some hide behind ignore lists now because they don't want to face the music.

Anyway, doesn't matter. If it's within the rules it's within the rules. That includes our observations about the droning on and on about the same complaints.

 

[JayBeagleFanAccount]

He really wasn't here long enough to know. To me, I expected him to be what he is, a defenseman who focuses on defense paired with someone who is offensively oriented. I don't recall many of us fans complaining about him either on the forums. Unless a player is pitifully bad, fans need to give the youngsters a real chance and deal with the teething issues of starting in the NHL.

his stats literally painted him as one of the best defensive defensemen in the entire league during his time in washington

This is just speculation from Friedman, so nothing really connecting the Capitals to Boeser. And I don't personally think this will happen.

But man would this be an awful move. He has a $6,650,000 AAV until 2024-25 and even with full retention I don't think his impacts are worth it.

Similarly I don't think Bo Horvat would be worth it to DC for what he's going to go for. He's on a great shooting bender right now but before this season he's had some very mediocre results.

an awful move for a slow overpaid winger? thats exactly what GMBM wants to bring in to the team

 

[g00n]

If it was just Siegenthaler or just Samsonov, it would be one thing. But it's not. It's Siegenthaler, Samsonov, Vanecek, Stephenson, Sprong, and Burakovsky. (And that's not even touching on the Vrana-Mantha trade.) It's that we see the same patterns regarding inconsistent developmental tracks and veteran roadblocks playing out on the current Capitals roster. It's that management has made this very same mistake several times, and at this point it's very much not a fluke. And it's that management seemingly hasn't learned from making this mistake in the past, and is continuing to repeat the process. It's that management hasn't addressed some of the key individuals behind these issues, despite all the mounting evidence that they're part of the problem.

-We've beaten JS to death already so no need to rehash.
-Sammy is barely out the door. Verdict TBD. He didn't deliver while here.
-VV, same thing, though many here (myself included) thought he was solid and underrated. Could've been a good backup still, imo. But that's not how it worked out and our current tandem is still good, without the off-ice bullshit.
-Stephenson was never a prolific scorer at any level above the WHL. He may be peaking as a 20 goal scorer last year and maybe this one, we'll see.
-Sprong has worn out his welcome on 3 teams already and is a bit over 30 games into his career on his 4th team. He's another guy who's barely been on a 20 goal pace, without ever hitting 20 goals in a season.
-Burakovsky had issues here and at other clubs. He needed to move on. He's very talented and was always teetering on breaking out, but for the mental side. That's not something you can predict or just coach away.
-Vrana is a one-dimensional 20 goal player and the result of the Mantha trade is still TBD


So I think this is a lot of howling about mostly nothing. We haven't been pissing away superstars. There are a lot of guys who put up around 20 goals per game in this league.

 

[JayBeagleFanAccount]

-We've beaten JS to death already so no need to rehash.
-Sammy is barely out the door. Verdict TBD. He didn't deliver while here.
-VV, same thing, though many here (myself included) thought he was solid and underrated. Could've been a good backup still, imo. But that's not how it worked out and our current tandem is still good, without the off-ice bullshit.
-Stephenson was never a prolific scorer at any level above the WHL. He may be peaking as a 20 goal scorer last year and maybe this one, we'll see.
-Sprong has worn out his welcome on 3 teams already and is a bit over 30 games into his career on his 4th team. He's another guy who's barely been on a 20 goal pace, without ever hitting 20 goals in a season.
-Burakovsky had issues here and at other clubs. He needed to move on. He's very talented and was always teetering on breaking out, but for the mental side. That's not something you can predict or just coach away.
-Vrana is a one-dimensional 20 goal player and the result of the Mantha trade is still TBD


So I think this is a lot of howling about mostly nothing. We haven't been pissing away superstars. There are a lot of guys who put up around 20 goals per game in this league.

saying vrana is a one dimensional 20 goal score is so ridiculous. At the time of the trade, over a 3 season period, Vrana was 3rd in 5v5 goals/60 and 5th in total 5v5 goals IN THE ENTIRE NHL. The only players ahead of him in total goals were: Auston Matthews, Connor McDavid, Alex Ovechkin, and Leon Draisaitl.

The point isnt that GMBM is moving superstars, its that he has no idea how to manage assets or build a team that fits in the modern NHL. If you look at his body of work post cup win its an absolute disaster.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

What was Vrana’s other dimension other than goal scorer?

That pace doesn’t mean much of you can’t you know….deliver 30+ goal seasons…..Vrana really should have passed that mark for all his potential, but so far, 25 is his best……4+ seasons ago.

 

[g00n]

Agreed. And I follow the league pretty closely, so that argument from earlier about how all teams go through these same types of failures doesn't track either. Starting from the Vegas expansion, I don't think another team has given up so much for so little in instances like these.

Mac had a bunch of other trades and acquisitions go well to balance things out pretty well overall, and coaching figured pretty heavily into some of the most costly losses. But when it strictly comes to giving away burgeoning talent for next to nothing, I can't think of another team that really comes all that close to the Caps. If there were a stat for this, I'd lay odds that we were #1 over that time, and I'd be shocked if we weren't top 3.

DISCLAIMER: The observations above are the observational ramblings of a guy that watches too much hockey. They are not intended to contribute to anyone's "miserable time" on "our little Caps community here." If reading discussion forums causes you misery, another hobby might be more advisable. I hear embroidery is fun. Pickleball is apparently also sweeping the nation. I don't know what it is, but hitting pickles with bats (rackets?) sounds like a blast. I feel similarly about whatever the hell "frisbee golf" is. Maybe give that a try.

Most of the top scorers last year were high draft picks who produced immediately and stayed with their original teams. A few were decent for a year or two then took off.

But some guys have left their original clubs. Most of them much better than the players we lost.

Lindholm was mediocre to below average in Carolina and exploded in CGY.
Chicago let DeBrincat get away.
Tage Thompson was with the Blues for 1yr and then spent several seasons in Buffalo before breaking out

A Troy Terry is rare (not that productive for years, then suddenly start producing for your original team).

Most of the top players come out firing right away. Stars are rarely developed in the NHL.

When you get down into those 20 goal ranges you find a lot of guys who've hopped from team to team in some way.

saying vrana is a one dimensional 20 goal score is so ridiculous. At the time of the trade, over a 3 season period, Vrana was 3rd in 5v5 goals/60 and 5th in total 5v5 goals IN THE ENTIRE NHL. The only players ahead of him in total goals were: Auston Matthews, Connor McDavid, Alex Ovechkin, and Leon Draisaitl.

The point isnt that GMBM is moving superstars, its that he has no idea how to manage assets or build a team that fits in the modern NHL. If you look at his body of work post cup win its an absolute disaster.

What does "one dimensional 20 goal scorer" mean to you that I'm not seeing here?


On another note...

39 posts in a GDT after 2 periods vs rival Flyers.

Yeah the board is fine.

 

[PlushMinus]

Example please.

I seem to recall you getting pissed off and attacking me because you misinterpreted what I was saying, right? And there are posters here who take backhanded shots at some of us pretty regularly.

If you're not a banned user sneaking back in then you wouldn't know about some of the little ongoing spats we have around here. A few of the people you're siding with are far from innocent, and some hide behind ignore lists now because they don't want to face the music.

Anyway, doesn't matter. If it's within the rules it's within the rules. That includes our observations about the droning on and on about the same complaints.

Yes I misinterpreted a post about Samsonov because I thought (incorrectly) you were suggesting I wasn't up with league happenings / movements etc.

And when you called me out on it I immediately apologized.

 

[JayBeagleFanAccount]

Most of the top scorers last year were high draft picks who produced immediately and stayed with their original teams. A few were decent for a year or two then took off.

But some guys have left their original clubs. Most of them much better than the players we lost.

Lindholm was mediocre to below average in Carolina and exploded in CGY.
Chicago let DeBrincat get away.
Tage Thompson was with the Blues for 1yr and then spent several seasons in Buffalo before breaking out

A Troy Terry is rare (not that productive for years, then suddenly start producing for your original team).

Most of the top players come out firing right away. Stars are rarely developed in the NHL.

When you get down into those 20 goal ranges you find a lot of guys who've hopped from team to team in some way.



What does "one dimensional 20 goal scorer" mean to you that I'm not seeing here?


On another note...

39 posts in a GDT after 2 periods vs rival Flyers.

Yeah the board is fine.

being one of the best scoring wingers in the nhl is exactly what this team needs, not another slow, big bodied, negative player

 

[g00n]

being one of the best scoring wingers in the nhl is exactly what this team needs, not another slow, big bodied, negative player

Who are you describing? 20 goal scorers are pretty common.

 

[JayBeagleFanAccount]

Who are you describing? 20 goal scorers are pretty common.

yeah all these players here are just your common player, nothing special about them at all

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Lol do we really need to get into the differences between one-dimensional Jake and those Superstars?

 

[g00n]

View attachment 618447
yeah all these players here are just your common player, nothing special about them at all

Ok you're still complaining about the Vrana deal.

What stats are we looking at here? Vrana's greatest hits? What's he done since?

You think Vrana is a superstar ?

 

[Zynbanejad]

Any update on Wilson?

 

[DWGie26]

The lineup has been changing and getting younger But this offseason is the big move. Lots of old guys gone and AHL players are ready. No dead money; funding under the cap. All well planned.

best scenario for me is that we dont trade any futures away, maybe sell an asset or two and make playoffs. I like to win and the best get to the playoffs.

Keep Storme, Sheary, Orlov, and Milano. I like TVR to stay over Jensen and get a new 2RD. Eller, Hags, Brown, NAK Gone. Mojo And Gus probably. Lots of new bodies coming in! Goalies Locked.