Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

[twabby]

Any update on Wilson?

Dead

 

[JayBeagleFanAccount]

Ok you're still complaining about the Vrana deal.

What stats are we looking at here? Vrana's greatest hits? What's he done since?

You think Vrana is a superstar ?

offensively yes, his defense leaves some to be desired but he still is a positive xgpm player. Very smart to move a 1st, 2nd and him for a bum ass middle 6 winger who has done jack shit his whole career

Lol do we really need to get into the differences between one-dimensional Jake and those Superstars?

guys like patrick kane, leon draisaitl, john tavares are two way beasts thats so true

 

[JayBeagleFanAccount]

out: jakub vrana, jonas siegenthaler, daniel sprong, 1st round pick, 2nd round pick, 3rd round pick, 3rd round pick, 4th round pick, 5th round pick, 6th round pick
in: marcus johansson, johan larsson, michael raffl, anthony mantha, ilya kovalchuk

dont let GMBM cook

 

[g00n]

offensively yes, his defense leaves some to be desired but he still is a positive xgpm player. Very smart to move a 1st, 2nd and him for a bum ass middle 6 winger who has done jack shit his whole career


guys like patrick kane, leon draisaitl, john tavares are two way beasts thats so true

Yeah well enjoy your xStanley Cup in Detroit

 

[Jags]

-We've beaten JS to death already so no need to rehash.
-Sammy is barely out the door. Verdict TBD. He didn't deliver while here.
-VV, same thing, though many here (myself included) thought he was solid and underrated. Could've been a good backup still, imo. But that's not how it worked out and our current tandem is still good, without the off-ice bullshit.
-Stephenson was never a prolific scorer at any level above the WHL. He may be peaking as a 20 goal scorer last year and maybe this one, we'll see.
-Sprong has worn out his welcome on 3 teams already and is a bit over 30 games into his career on his 4th team. He's another guy who's barely been on a 20 goal pace, without ever hitting 20 goals in a season.
-Burakovsky had issues here and at other clubs. He needed to move on. He's very talented and was always teetering on breaking out, but for the mental side. That's not something you can predict or just coach away.
-Vrana is a one-dimensional 20 goal player and the result of the Mantha trade is still TBD

You make some good points here, but you're leaving out the return. In most of these cases, it's what we chose INSTEAD of those players that make it painful. Giving up the versatile potential of Stephenson for the ghost of Hagelin (or not chancing losing Boyd on waivers). Giving up on JS despite him showing real promise in favor of the ghost of Chara, Orpik 2.0, and not developing him in favor of playing a 60-pound kid who had no NHL future on his weak side. Those were ridiculous choices, even without the benefit of hindsight.

I'm with you for the most part on the Vrana and Sprong moves, but there's no question that Lavi drawing those types of lines in the sand forced us to downgrade our roster at least once. He gets a pass from me because that same stance has Sheary, MoJo, Strome, and Milano playing more responsibly in ways they weren't known to before, but I do think he's taken it too far a time or two. At least that's how it seems from the outside.

I'm far less concerned about the past than the future. I'm not sure Laviolette is the coach for a team that needs to restructure the way ours does. Our best way forward should absolutely include A LOT of youth, and I'd prefer to take a chance on a coach that's excited about that and more modern in their approach.

 

[g00n]

You make some good points here, but you're leaving out the return. In most of these cases, it's what we chose INSTEAD of those players that make it painful. Giving up the versatile potential of Stephenson for the ghost of Hagelin (or not chancing losing Boyd on waivers). Giving up on JS despite him showing real promise in favor of the ghost of Chara, Orpik 2.0, and not developing him in favor of playing a 60-pound kid who had no NHL future on his weak side. Those were ridiculous choices, even without the benefit of hindsight.

I'm with you for the most part on the Vrana and Sprong moves, but there's no question that Lavi drawing those types of lines in the sand forced us to downgrade our roster at least once. He gets a pass from me because that same stance has Sheary, MoJo, Strome, and Milano playing more responsibly in ways they weren't known to before, but I do think he's taken it too far a time or two. At least that's how it seems from the outside.

I'm far less concerned about the past than the future. I'm not sure Laviolette is the coach for a team that needs to restructure the way ours does. Our best way forward should absolutely include A LOT of youth, and I'd prefer to take a chance on a coach that's excited about that and more modern in their approach.

Ted started out with a recent Cup Finals team and a GM who inherited a lot of the responsible talent but had a hand in shaping the 1998 run. Then, after a few yeas of diminishing returns, they fired the experienced coach and went with a younger, more dynamic seeming rookie coach...to lead a mostly veteran team with a decent amount of ego. The result was a massive firesale and rebuild.

Sound familiar?

Again, most of the team are on expiring contracts, and this is likely for a very calculated reason. They will sink or swim through the TDL with mostly these players, and next year's team could be very different.

Some of the moves made in the past could've been done with this in mind as well, re: contract terms and trying to win before everything turns into a pumpkin in 2023-24.

People who are constantly looking at this season through the lens of making various EA Sports talent swap moves are not taking this into account.

That's why it's a waste of time getting upset about it every single day in every single thread, imo.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

offensively yes, his defense leaves some to be desired but he still is a positive xgpm player. Very smart to move a 1st, 2nd and him for a bum ass middle 6 winger who has done jack shit his whole career


guys like patrick kane, leon draisaitl, john tavares are two way beasts thats so true

You’re the one repeating “Auston Matthews, Connor McDavid, Alex Ovechkin, and Leon Draisaitl” so yeah…superstars on that list..are who I was referring to as you so disingenuously mention that disappointment Vrana in the same breath over and over.

 

[Jags]

That's why it's a waste of time getting upset about it every single day in every single thread, imo.

See, that's where you lose me. I was with you right up to the end there. Do I really seem upset to you? Even the folks advocating for extreme action like immediate trades or firings are just making statements because they have that "EA Sports" mindset that every issue can be solved with a simple choice.

So while there are certainly some perspectives that are unrealistic, I don't think the people discussing these issues the most are upset. The majority of the real conflicts here that get a little ugly almost always stem from your reactions. Not just you, to be clear, but the people that make exasperated comments about these discussions. It sends the message that these things are stupid to talk about, and that can easily be (and often is) taken personally, they respond in kind, and the conversation devolves quickly.

I saw this happen on the official Caps boards years ago. A once-thriving community that slowly ebbed because the dominant personalities engaged in exactly that kind of behavior, basically shouting down everyone who disagreed with them until only they were left. And what was left was an embarrassing mess that the team quickly and quietly shuttered without warning.

I'm not saying that that's going to happen here. I'm not here enough to know for sure and you'd certainly know better, but the participation seems normal to me. If it's fading, that's understandable. Forums like these are a dying breed. Most folks looking to interact this way are on reddit.

Personally, I think all this talk of "attacks" is overblown. We're just talking here, aren't we?

 

[g00n]

See, that's where you lose me. I was with you right up to the end there. Do I really seem upset to you? Even the folks advocating for extreme action like immediate trades or firings are just making statements because they have that "EA Sports" mindset that every issue can be solved with a simple choice.

So while there are certainly some perspectives that are unrealistic, I don't think the people discussing these issues the most are upset. The majority of the real conflicts here that get a little ugly almost always stem from your reactions. Not just you, to be clear, but the people that make exasperated comments about these discussions. It sends the message that these things are stupid to talk about, and that can easily be (and often is) taken personally, they respond in kind, and the conversation devolves quickly.

I saw this happen on the official Caps boards years ago. A once-thriving community that slowly ebbed because the dominant personalities engaged in exactly that kind of behavior, basically shouting down everyone who disagreed with them until only they were left. And what was left was an embarrassing mess that the team quickly and quietly shuttered without warning.

I'm not saying that that's going to happen here. I'm not here enough to know for sure and you'd certainly know better, but the participation seems normal to me. If it's fading, that's understandable. Forums like these are a dying breed. Most folks looking to interact this way are on reddit.

Personally, I think all this talk of "attacks" is overblown. We're just talking here, aren't we?

If you think that post was just a way to tell everyone to not be upset or argue I don't know what to tell you.

 

[twabby]

You can't accuse GMs of making dumb moves when you had no idea it was a dumb move and your whole schtick is 2nd guessing GMs.

Shit happens. Someone is not always to blame. THAT is what's most irritating about message boards. Everyone is always looking for a scapegoat and someone to fire.

This is a hockey discussion board, not Yelp.

“Shit happens” is what I say when a McDonalds employee makes a mistake with my order. (3 Big Macs, hold the beef, cheese, veggies, and sauce)

A trade call between the New Jersey Devils and the Washington Capitals where an agreement is made to send Jonas Siegenthaler to the Devils in exchange for a third round draft pick in the 2021 NHL Entry Draft didn’t just spontaneously emerge from the æther. It was a calculated decision that turned out to be wrong, at least from the Capitals perspective. MacLellan deserves blame! It’s ok to blame someone for making a mistake! We blame players for mistakes all the time!

 

[g00n]

GDTs last year this time were in the 400-600 post range.

The GDTs this year regardless of timezone are 100-200 posts and seemingly dropping as many previously active posters leave.

Reddit and other forums are not new this season.

The change isn't some emerging media in the past few months, it's the way this board is now dominated by a handful of posters pushing the same agenda in every thread, regardless of the facts or counterpoints.

 

[Jags]

If you think that post was just a way to tell everyone to not be upset or argue I don't know what to tell you.

Nope, you made some strong points in that post. Then you capped it off by saying they're applying video game logic, getting upset, and wasting everyone's time.

If you think that's productive, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[g00n]

“Shit happens” is what I say when a McDonalds employee makes a mistake with my order. (3 Big Macs, hold the beef, cheese, veggies, and sauce)

A trade call between the New Jersey Devils and the Washington Capitals where an agreement is made to send Jonas Siegenthaler to the Devils in exchange for a third round draft pick in the 2021 NHL Entry Draft didn’t just spontaneously emerge from the æther. It was a calculated decision that turned out to be wrong. MacLellan deserves blame! It’s ok to blame someone for making a mistake! We blame players for mistakes all the time!

Shit happens is not a reference to the deal being made as if it just happened. It's a reference to things not going the way everyone sees them working out.

People are not spreadsheets or numbers. They act and change and behave in ways we can't always predict.

So when it comes to life and the way it evolves, yes shit happens.

 

[pman25]

The Vrana/Mantha trade didn’t bother me as much, it’s an okay swap player for player but it’s that we may have done it partially to get rid of Panik so we could sign Ovi. And that’s my problem with Bmac, he gave four year deals to Panik and Hagelin when we already had guys to fill those roles (Burakovsky and Stephenson). We ended up moving those guys in the same offseason.

 

[g00n]

Nope, you made some strong points in that post. Then you capped it off by saying they're applying video game logic, getting upset, and wasting everyone's time.

If you think that's productive, I don't know what to tell you.

That's my opinion about these opinions. If you don't see the snark, sarcasm, and personal insults coming the other way simply for disagreeing with the tank hivemind IDKWTTY.

 

[Jags]

GDTs last year this time were in the 400-600 post range.

The GDTs this year regardless of timezone are 100-200 posts and seemingly dropping as many previously active posters leave.

Reddit and other forums are not new this season.

The change isn't some emerging media in the past few months, it's the way this board is now dominated by a handful of posters pushing the same agenda in every thread, regardless of the facts or counterpoints.

Last year was also pretty much the end of our run as a top team. This year's team isn't much fun to watch so far. You don't think maybe that has something to do with it?

You really think people discussing the team in the same general way it's always been done is more responsible for the decline you're seeing than the team being kinda bad and fans finding other things to do/watch with their time?

 

[Brian23]

The change isn't some emerging media in the past few months, it's the way this board is now dominated by a handful of posters pushing the same agenda in every thread, regardless of the facts or counterpoints.

lmao.

Yeah, nah, it couldn't be that the team is bad and on a downward trajectory. Or maybe it's that anytime someone says something a particular group doesn't like the purity batton's come out.

The beatings will continue till morale improves or you post what they like!

 

[crazy8888]

Any update on Wilson?

Santa is bringing Willie to Caps for Christmas. Elfs are still wrapping him.

 

[zappa4ever]

Meanwhile the Caps are 5-2-1 in the last 8 with a depleted lineup (and including a 6gm road trip)
giving up 2 goals or less in 5 of those games

Odd how no one mentions the positive here isn't it?

 

[g00n]

Last year was also pretty much the end of our run as a top team. This year's team isn't much fun to watch so far. You don't think maybe that has something to do with it?

You really think people discussing the team in the same general way it's always been done is more responsible for the decline you're seeing than the team being kinda bad and fans finding other things to do/watch with their time?

lmao.

Yeah, nah, it couldn't be that the team is bad and on a downward trajectory. Or maybe it's that anytime someone says something a particular group doesn't like the purity batton's come out.

The beatings will continue till morale improves or you post what they like!

Last year was not significantly different compared to the previous couple of seasons in terms of competitiveness. Most here gave us zero chance against FL in the playoffs and we took them to 7 games.

The good run of play early last season declined after COVID hit the team in late December and the knives came out for the returning veteran players, as if it was their fault, and hasn't stopped since. Now we have a similar decent run while missing a lot of top pieces for the first 2 months of the season, and the droning hasn't stopped. It's actually increasing.

This year the difference is there's a brigade of posters who don't see the big picture regarding this window of contract expirations, or choose not to because they just prefer throwing handfuls of shitposts at the wall.

Everything points to the TDL as a make or break checkpoint for this collection of pending RFA and UFA. I suspect a lot of regulars have abandoned ship until then.

Meanwhile the Caps are 5-2-1 in the last 8 with a depleted lineup (and including a 6gm road trip)
giving up 2 goals or less in 5 of those games

Odd how no one mentions the positive here isn't it?

I think some are invested in a stat-based narrative or else a preference for fast, young players and that's all they care about. Confirmation bias dominates from there.

 

[kicksavedave]

Meanwhile the Caps are 5-2-1 in the last 8 with a depleted lineup (and including a 6gm road trip)
giving up 2 goals or less in 5 of those games

Odd how no one mentions the positive here isn't it?

Joe B listed off the names of the injured and its quite a team.

Backie, Wilson, Brown, Orlov, Fever, Hags, Beck... Oshie missed a bunch.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Meanwhile the Caps are 5-2-1 in the last 8 with a depleted lineup (and including a 6gm road trip)
giving up 2 goals or less in 5 of those games

Odd how no one mentions the positive here isn't it?

How dare you post something positive!

 

[zappa4ever]

Joe B listed off the names of the injured and its quite a team.

Backie, Wilson, Brown, Orlov, Fever, Hags, Beck... Oshie missed a bunch.

I don't think anyone had Orlov on the list before the season started as someone who'd miss 15 straight and counting
He's been an iron man since that wrist? injury in his 2nd year kept him out almost a full year

Did anyone else hear during the EDM? game that we've had the 2nd most difficult Strength of Schedule opponents... add that to the injury list, the 13 in 24, and now the 6 gm road trip and it's impressive that we're just a cpl pts from the WC's

If we actually get Orlov/Fever/Malenstyn/BigWilly back soon it'll be interesting to see how we do

 

[JayBeagleFanAccount]

from 32 thoughts

Team I wonder about for Brock Boeser: Washington. This is a personal opinion, but I wonder if a Boeser-Anthony Mantha move makes any sense for both. The Capitals need a jolt and, as GM Brian MacLellan said last weekend, can’t do anything financially lopsided until there’s clarity on Nicklas Backstrom’s availability. Mantha’s cap hit is slightly lower than Boeser’s, and he’s got one fewer year — which would appeal to Vancouver.

 

[itsjustsurvival]

Meanwhile the Caps are 5-2-1 in the last 8 with a depleted lineup (and including a 6gm road trip)
giving up 2 goals or less in 5 of those games

Odd how no one mentions the positive here isn't it?

In an effort to improve board morale, I will now make sure that every time I say something negative, I will be sure to also say something positive.

I think between last year and most of this season so far, people are allowed to be critical. No post season success, several players playing well below expectations, questionable personnel decisions, team getting crushed 5on5, and a lack of prospect development can't all be waved away just because of injuries this season. But to your point, the last 8 games have been much better. Especially with the return of Oshie, they have multiple lines generating offensive possession consistently. I have also liked the more dynamic power play. Having real goalies is also awesome.

Unrelated, I wish they tracked how often players just fall down for no reason. Oshie, Sheary, and Milano regularly crack me up. So much skill, so many falls.