SecretaryofDefense5
Registered User
I’m not mad they’re gone but Murray has to go.
Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!
- Thread starter AlexModvechkin8
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It makes sense Vanecek excels in Jersey, as he did that always with us too.
Anyways, its been 17 games for Vanny and 9 games for Sammy. They had that sort of scretches with us too early on where we would be totally sold that they are the next big thing. I do think they both have the talent to stay up there and playing with a hot team helps too obviously, but im interested to see what happens when they hit the wall for a while. How they bounce back from a rougher scretch. That was always the problem when here. It was not if they could play elite games here and there, but if they can hold it together and still provide quality goaltending when "off". Though the team didnt exactly do them any favours either.
But yeah, really unimpressed with Murray's body of work obviously. As everyone should be.
And im only happy for the guys to get it going. Well kind of, still a bit disappointed for Samsonov not to get his head "right" while here. Sammy got all the chances and second chances and third chances, more than he deserved, and always found a way to let us down. I dont miss him a bit. Vanecek though was always a great team first guy, but seeing him get the contract he got.. we needed Kuemper to make a statement, and having a 3,5mill guy to back him up was never going to work.
Games scheduled for the remaining of the year will set the plan for the rest of the season. Thats 12 games, leading right about the halfway mark. With 7 games against our own conference, of which all of the teams except for one are "non-playoffs" teams as we speak. This is the point where we need to turn it around and start gathering points at a 1,3-1,5 pace, or the "hole" is getting too big to get out from and its time to focus on the team we ice next year. Its still not going to be a rebuild, and I still figure both Lavi, and the rest of the front office will get some "forgiveness" for all the injuries*, but im also sure there will be a clear layer of changes on and off ice if they dont make the playoffs this year.
* its not just the usual suspects as in Backstrom and Oshie and Hagelin and Wilson of which you knew and could reserve yourself for, but you have to account that we have also missed Brown, Orlov and Carlson aswell. With minor other injuries added in. You cant just say "um but that was expected to happen", thats a lot of injuries at the same time of the volume that not many teams can overcome. So even if its tiresome excuse and one could should have seen it coming, its still a lot of bad luck thrown at our way.
Anyways, its been 17 games for Vanny and 9 games for Sammy. They had that sort of scretches with us too early on where we would be totally sold that they are the next big thing. I do think they both have the talent to stay up there and playing with a hot team helps too obviously, but im interested to see what happens when they hit the wall for a while. How they bounce back from a rougher scretch. That was always the problem when here. It was not if they could play elite games here and there, but if they can hold it together and still provide quality goaltending when "off". Though the team didnt exactly do them any favours either.
But yeah, really unimpressed with Murray's body of work obviously. As everyone should be.
And im only happy for the guys to get it going. Well kind of, still a bit disappointed for Samsonov not to get his head "right" while here. Sammy got all the chances and second chances and third chances, more than he deserved, and always found a way to let us down. I dont miss him a bit. Vanecek though was always a great team first guy, but seeing him get the contract he got.. we needed Kuemper to make a statement, and having a 3,5mill guy to back him up was never going to work.
Games scheduled for the remaining of the year will set the plan for the rest of the season. Thats 12 games, leading right about the halfway mark. With 7 games against our own conference, of which all of the teams except for one are "non-playoffs" teams as we speak. This is the point where we need to turn it around and start gathering points at a 1,3-1,5 pace, or the "hole" is getting too big to get out from and its time to focus on the team we ice next year. Its still not going to be a rebuild, and I still figure both Lavi, and the rest of the front office will get some "forgiveness" for all the injuries*, but im also sure there will be a clear layer of changes on and off ice if they dont make the playoffs this year.
* its not just the usual suspects as in Backstrom and Oshie and Hagelin and Wilson of which you knew and could reserve yourself for, but you have to account that we have also missed Brown, Orlov and Carlson aswell. With minor other injuries added in. You cant just say "um but that was expected to happen", thats a lot of injuries at the same time of the volume that not many teams can overcome. So even if its tiresome excuse and one could should have seen it coming, its still a lot of bad luck thrown at our way.
Peeri
Registered User
This is more of team problem rather than coaching. Any competent NHL goalie will perform behind good team. There is plenty of examples in the past. Bring any goalie to this Capitals team and they will struggle mightily and vice versa, swap Kuemper with any of those 3 and he will be on top in no time.I’m not mad they’re gone but Murray has to go.
twabby
Registered User
- Mar 9, 2010
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Kuemper is basically tied with Vanecek when it comes to save percentage above expected: 0.91% vs. 0.86%. Samsonov is a full 2% above expected right now so he is doing quite a bit better.
It's early and things will likely normalize a bit, but I think it's fair to say that Scott Murray like other coaches on the team failed to get the most out of his players.
It's early and things will likely normalize a bit, but I think it's fair to say that Scott Murray like other coaches on the team failed to get the most out of his players.
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Brian23
Registered User
- Dec 3, 2011
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I never really got it with Vanecek, thought he was basically topped out as a serviceable NHL tender, but Sammy? I still think that was a massive mistake.
He never got to stay settled, either due to his own screw ups or due to things out of his control. I'd argue anyone hand waving how they're preforming now probably needs to take a step back as they're just a couple more in a long line of people leaving and seeming to excel afterwards.
He never got to stay settled, either due to his own screw ups or due to things out of his control. I'd argue anyone hand waving how they're preforming now probably needs to take a step back as they're just a couple more in a long line of people leaving and seeming to excel afterwards.
twabby
Registered User
- Mar 9, 2010
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How could anyone have possibly known Siegenthaler would have been this good before he was traded?
It's not like they had a 1000+ minute sample with stats showing that he was one of the most impactful defensive defensemen in the NHL or anything.
He really wasn't here long enough to know. To me, I expected him to be what he is, a defenseman who focuses on defense paired with someone who is offensively oriented. I don't recall many of us fans complaining about him either on the forums. Unless a player is pitifully bad, fans need to give the youngsters a real chance and deal with the teething issues of starting in the NHL.
I'm still not sold on VV, but he did have some stellar games like the 2020-2021 season opener against the Rangers. Some us blamed Scott Murray and still think he a terrible coach. It's either the organization isn't patient or it's coaching. My opinion is it's both. That said, I was glad they signed DK and Lindgren over keeping VV and Sammie.
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
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This is the shit that makes these boards unreadable at times….pining over multiple guys who weren’t good enough here.
Brian23
Registered User
- Dec 3, 2011
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What. They were plenty good enough here.
This is the shit that makes these board unreadable at times, just ignoring reality because it doesn't conform to someones per-disposed vision. Or bitching about any topic that doesn't fit that view either.
HTFN
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2009
- 12,562
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Boo f***ing hoo, they were good enough and ignored. You explain playing Chara. You won’t and never do.
895
Registered User
- Jun 15, 2007
- 8,613
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We aren't pining for them specifically, we are upset that this team sucks ass at developing talent.
It's amazing that we can have so many guys suck here and become good immediately after leaving and you don't think that means the problem is the organization.
SecretaryofDefense5
Registered User
Pointing out how players who were deemed crap are league leaders now is unbearable? I wasn’t aware that was a bad thing to merely make observation of. The HFBoards are not a safe space apparently. Who knew?
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
- 66,439
- 21,448
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
- 66,439
- 21,448
Is it fun for you to keep being reminded of now nice things we no longer have, even if they weren’t that great when we did have them? What purpose does all the constant bitching and moaning here have?
You can already see the lack of activity here because of it. Say anything and you’re immediately attacked. Soon you HFTN and the crew will be here all by yourselves complaining to the wall. Enjoy.
HTFN
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2009
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they were literally talking about ways to actively improve what the Capitals are doing from a coaching and developmental standpoint. The only one constantly bitching (about bitching, no less) was you, and pretending that you're the protector of quality conversations when you keep backing out of having them is exactly why you keep getting "attacked" by the people who actually want to have conversations.
grow up and participate, maybe change a few minds, or keep this shit to yourself and move on. Whining about other people having a conversation you don't want to engage with is ridiculous
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
- 66,439
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Lol rich from you Francis.
they were literally talking about ways to actively improve what the Capitals are doing from a coaching and developmental standpoint. The only one constantly bitching (about bitching, no less) was you, and pretending that you're the protector of quality conversations when you keep backing out of having them is exactly why you keep getting "attacked" by the people who actually want to have conversations.
grow up and participate, maybe change a few minds, or keep this shit to yourself and move on. Whining about other people having a conversation you don't want to engage with is ridiculous
HTFN
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2009
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Is that supposed to be some big gotcha? I guess I don't get it since it's usually my participating that seems to rustle you up so bad to begin with and I'm not really a part of the conversation police
Brian23
Registered User
- Dec 3, 2011
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Okay, great. So, for the umpteenth time what are we supposed to talk about? We're not supposed to talk about all the talent that's walked away and excels when they're gone, we're not supposed to talk about how Lavi's deploying or using current talent (and maybe they'd be better with better deployments), and we're not allowed to talk about propsect's potentially graduating and who they could replace.
So if we aren't sitting there with our pom poms 100% of the time cheering on the bus till the wheels fall off it's a bitch fest. Got it.
My hockey knowledge is not up to par with many of yours but I remember Siegs being out of position and giving up breaks pretty often. He wasn’t bad here but he also wasn’t exactly showing glimpses of the next Makar. Yes it was stupid to give him up for Chara but it happens all the time across the league. Marino is just another example of a cast off that is excelling in NJ.
g00n
Retired Global Mod
- Nov 22, 2007
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This board has been invaded by fruit flies and goldfish. Zero attention span or memory.
Every time something is debunked the same old complaints pop right back up again.
I'm not going to dig it up again but go look for the Seigs trade thread. Most here were fine with the trade and thought he was just an OK d-man who wasn't the best skater, and wished him well in NJ because it was known he asked to be traded in order to play regularly.
Acting like you knew all along that trading him was some huge mistake is hindsight revisionism.
Every time something is debunked the same old complaints pop right back up again.
I'm not going to dig it up again but go look for the Seigs trade thread. Most here were fine with the trade and thought he was just an OK d-man who wasn't the best skater, and wished him well in NJ because it was known he asked to be traded in order to play regularly.
Acting like you knew all along that trading him was some huge mistake is hindsight revisionism.
Hivemind
We're Touched
This place tends to be a lot more bearable when you put users with a particular history of "you cannot criticize the team or else you're a bad fan" posts on ignore.
HTFN
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2009
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Right, because they'd just demonstrated absolutely zero willingness to develop a young and deserving player and it's hard to hold that against someone.
I don't think anybody's saying they knew he'd be a dark horse Norris guy, they also didn't have to in order to recognize that the Capitals were doing it wrong as it related to Chara. Said it at the time, said it when Siegenthaler said it, continue to say it now about different guys to the same goldfish "memory" company men who still insist everyone who isn't playing "just isn't ready yet".
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
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Confirmed with Link: - Siegenthaler to NJ for 2021 3rd Rounder (Arizona pick)
“Brian23”
uhhh. A big body "stay at home defensemen". I think he's strictly a bottom pairing guy, who can give you some PK minutes, but nothing world-breaking.
I don't think he was that good, but he can fill some minutes if a team needs them.
“895”
I don't think Siege is all that good but I still think the value in this trade is wrong.
And don't say this was done for cap space. There is practically no cap space gain at all. Any time you trade someone on the roster making minimum or near minimum you gain no cap space.
”Twabby”
It’s fine, assuming another trade for a significant piece happens by tomorrow. I won’t like it quite as much if it’s just to clear cap space to acquire some depth guy or a goalie.
(ME)
Former 2nd rounder traded for a 3rd. Sucks to be desperate for cap space.
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