Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

[JayBeagleFanAccount]

lmfao

 

[PlushMinus]

View attachment 617112

lmfao

It's pretty funny, right? And Sprong isn't even getting more ice time than he did with the Caps. He IS getting PP unit time but that's EXACTLY what you want from a guy like Sprong, who has a great shot and is an offensive talent moreso than anything else. If a coach like Hakstol can see that then what does that say about our coach?

 

[Misery74]

View attachment 617112

lmfao

Lavi hated Sprong. He always knows what’s best.

My prediction, Laviolette doesn’t leave Alberta as the coach. Tone seems to have turned. And, with our defense, on the fast Edmonton ice? Tomorrow could get ugly, and Laviolette is one ugly loss away from spending winter in New Hampshire.

 

[JayBeagleFanAccount]

It's pretty funny, right? And Sprong isn't even getting more ice time than he did with the Caps. He IS getting PP unit time but that's EXACTLY what you want from a guy like Sprong, who has a great shot and is an offensive talent moreso than anything else. If a coach like Hakstol can see that then what does that say about our coach?

Hes a young explosive forward with a great goal scoring touch, the perfect depth scorer for the modern NHL and of course our decrepit organization wastes him and then pays to move him. Lavi is just not a modern coach, none of these old dinosaurs can adapt. (that scoring is just at 5v5 btw)

 

[um]

As far as expiring contracts I'd like to see the following...don't think the replacements I listed make the team any worse(maybe better?) but it does build some draft capital to allow us to move up here and there and go after some talent in rounds 2 and 3 in a very deep draft. Could also look at moving someone like Mantha if it makes sense but then you're looking at Oshie back in the top 6 and a very young third line. Perhaps a better option to move him in the off-season unless we're legit quitting and tanking and I can't imagine that's the plan given our organizational direction.


Re-sign
Orlov
Jensen
Strome
Milano

Trade at the deadline
Mojo (replace with Snivley)
Sheary (replace with Wilson)
Hathaway (replace with Malenstyn)
Eller (replace with McMichael)
TVR (replace with Alexeyev)
Gustafsson (replace with Lujo)

Ovi-Strome/Kuz-Wilson
Milano-Strome/Kuz-Mantha
Snivley-McMichael-Oshie
Protas-Dowd-Malenstyn
NAK

Fehervary-Carlson
Orlov-Jensen
Alexeyev-Johansen
Irwin

I wonder how much those UFA guys want to resign after a rough year.

There's not much selection at this years UFA Dman class, and Milano is used to switching teams by now.

It would really suck if we held on to Orlov and/or Jensen just to have them walk, they could get us a much more than those other guys.

 

[Holtbyisms]

I wonder how much those UFA guys want to resign after a rough year.

There's not much selection at this years UFA Dman class, and Milano is used to switching teams by now.

It would really suck if we held on to Orlov and/or Jensen just to have them walk, they could get us a much more than those other guys.

Need to try and secure them in-season. If they're unwilling to negotiate in-season and express interest in possibly exploring free agency then you have to make the tough decision and move them. There's plenty plugs available to fill out their positions if need be.

 

[YippieKaey]

Trading Kuzy can get you where Backstrom cant play, Strome choses greener pastures and youre left with who exactly as you top-6 centers?

Oshie, Mojo and CMM ofc!

Hard to trade for top-6 center.

In other words its a blow to the 895 strategy. Very risky.

Or CMM and Lapierre gets a shot at some prime minutes whilst being backed upp by Mojo, Protas, Dowd and Oshie. Not the worst thing that can happen. We have plenty of wingers to fill Mojos, Protas and Oshies winger slots even if none of them are very good.

 

[YippieKaey]

Need to try and secure them in-season. If they're unwilling to negotiate in-season and express interest in possibly exploring free agency then you have to make the tough decision and move them. There's plenty plugs available to fill out their positions if need be.

Securing them in season means they both get 4-5 year old deals with a fairly large AAV, something i don't think is the right choice for this team. Of course, other teams also know this so that might depreciate their value.

 

[tycoonheart]

View attachment 617112

lmfao

Hell, people here were telling the rest of us how Lavi's decision to not play Sprong was justified because he is such a defensive liability. Dude is a +8 for the season with Seattle.

I do not trust Lavi. I don't trust his take on CMM either.

 

[Jags]

Is property tax a big thing?

It can be, but you're right -- the argument that the combination of other taxes somehow equal or even really meaningfully mitigate state tax on millions of dollars doesn't hold much water.

It offsets some of it, but not by all that much in most cases. High state tax rates versus zero state tax hits the median NHL salary for over $400K annually. For the high-end contracts that are typically being discussed when this issue comes up, the difference can be $1.5 million a year.

Property, sales, and jock taxes don't cut into that all that much. The difference in property tax at the extreme in NHL markets is 2% -- not on the entirety of your earnings; just on the value of your home. That might offset taxes in an extreme case by 10%, give or take.

Sales tax is even more nebulous because though it has a bigger swing, many NHL players only reside in the state during the season and it only applies to the taxable goods they purchase. At the median, the typical NHLer probably buys the same things the average American does, just with more frivolity and less concern for cost. So if they spend 10x what you do on something like groceries, that's what? 6K more in sales tax per year at a 4% spread? Probably not another 10% in total.

And jock taxes only exist in some places, aren't always applied, only apply to half the season when they apply at all, and can be partially mitigated with good financial planning. Doesn't amount to a whole lot, even at the extreme. Makes prepping a tax return for a pro athlete a nightmare though.

So even with a cumulative offset of 25% at most, that $300K annually still means a lot to the median NHLer. And that elite NHL guy will probably want to hang onto that $1.1mil.

Taxes don't factor heavily into every NHL location decision, but it's a very significant factor a lot of the time.

 

[Jags]

If we're going to constantly complain about "asset management" then going around ringing bells and holding BOY FOR SALE signs is probably the worst asset management we can reach for right now.

Definitely agree in general, though I'm a little more in the gray area between these extremes. The "willing to trade and fire everyone ASAP" idea and the "stay the course" idea are both at least a little wonky, in my opinion.

One doesn't have to be in favor of tearing it all down to want our HC and GM to be more proactive about developing young talent. The gray area there is Grand Canyon-sized. Laviolette is a good coach, but his ego and tendency to get into pissing matches with players that don't play his way have hurt us some, and MacLellan enables those shortcomings in him by constantly giving him the rope (trading out "problem" players, bringing in or keeping redundant vets) to hang himself with. In an ideal world, your HC and GM would balance each other out, not exacerbate each other's worst traits.

These are correctable issues that neither guy seems at all interested in correcting. It's unclear whether they even see the problems to begin with.

I think most of us would just like to see some evidence that our organization is at least willing or considering making a couple changes to correct our biggest failings. It's disappointing that we appear to be moving full speed ahead in the direction of staying the course.

We're not privy to much and of course I think they're open to whatever might help, but there's zero evidence of them actually doing anything meaningful to turn this thing around.

 

[Jags]

Hes a young explosive forward with a great goal scoring touch, the perfect depth scorer for the modern NHL and of course our decrepit organization wastes him and then pays to move him. Lavi is just not a modern coach, none of these old dinosaurs can adapt. (that scoring is just at 5v5 btw)

I don't think the story on Sprong here was as black and white as it's made out to be. There are guys that fit the same basic mold as Sprong that make the effort required of them and get kudos and playing time from Lavi. Not young -- so maybe it does possibly indicate a preference for experience -- but guys like Sheary and Johansson. They contribute in the meaningful ways they're supposed to on paper AND they do the extra things asked of them by their coach.

With guys like Sprong and Vrana, there appeared to be an unwillingness to adapt. I don't think defensive metrics had much to do with it. Making the effort likely would have been enough, and THAT is where the disconnect was. Whether it boiled down to attitude (Vrana) or aptitude (Sprong), the effort was either not there, not consistent, or not bearing enough fruit.

While I agree that Lavi's stubbornness and similar failings from other recent Caps head coaches have cost us some really good, young talent, I do see the merit in holding players accountable. So while I like that Lavi demands a standard from his players, I do think he's taken it too far at times.

 

[Brian23]

To Twabby's last point, GMBM has also always been unusually honest in the media about what his expectations are and what he's planning on doing. If he's saying he isn't planning on trading for anyone, or making any trades, and just standing pat for the time being I'd be more inclined to believe he's being entirely genuine.

 

[crazy8888]

To Twabby's last point, GMBM has also always been unusually honest in the media about what his expectations are and what he's planning on doing. If he's saying he isn't planning on trading for anyone, or making any trades, and just standing pat for the time being I'd be more inclined to believe he's being entirely genuine.

100% agree.

 

[Peeri]

I don't think the story on Sprong here was as black and white as it's made out to be. There are guys that fit the same basic mold as Sprong that make the effort required of them and get kudos and playing time from Lavi. Not young -- so maybe it does possibly indicate a preference for experience -- but guys like Sheary and Johansson. They contribute in the meaningful ways they're supposed to on paper AND they do the extra things asked of them by their coach.

With guys like Sprong and Vrana, there appeared to be an unwillingness to adapt. I don't think defensive metrics had much to do with it. Making the effort likely would have been enough, and THAT is where the disconnect was. Whether it boiled down to attitude (Vrana) or aptitude (Sprong), the effort was either not there, not consistent, or not bearing enough fruit.

While I agree that Lavi's stubbornness and similar failings from other recent Caps head coaches have cost us some really good, young talent, I do see the merit in holding players accountable. So while I like that Lavi demands a standard from his players, I do think he's taken it too far at times.

Are you Lavi? When someone tells that player is not willing to adapt to this Capitals style, that makes me really question the person. Do you want your offensive players to adapt to this zero creativity, zero offense playstyle. You can tell how our only creative center in Kuznetsov is currently blooming under the Lavi gamebook. Offensive players need to play offense and be allowed to do that. Everyone remembers what Ovechkin went through when he was forced to defence first, it just doesn't work. What we are lacking is offense first guys, creative minds who can set up and make plays, team is already full on plugs and grinders. Yet somehow every tradeline we end up with cutting ties with another offensive prospect and bring in another NAK.

 

[895]

I understand people defending the team on Sprong if he was the only one...

But the list of young guys this team has dumped for nothing is so long that it baffles me that anyone is still defending management.

In hindsight I would have fired GMBM after 2018, but even without hindsight I would have fired him after last year.

 

[Brian23]

I understand people defending the team on Sprong if he was the only one...

But the list of young guys this team has dumped for nothing is so long that it baffles me that anyone is still defending management.

In hindsight I would have fired GMBM after 2018, but even without hindsight I would have fired him after last year.

But...why...? He brought these guys in, he wanted them to be played, but he can't force them to get a sweater. Anyone who goes on about trading people that the coach is leaning on to force his hand don't seem to get that'd get you fired and black balled from the league quicker then just trying to cycle in someone they can both agree on. I can't fault a GM for trying to find players the HC would play.

As I said in another thread, you have to judge a GM (and even a coach to an extent) more off the process then the outcome a lot of the time. GMBM has shown a really good process and has generally had alright outcomes. Lavi on the other hand I've never been a fan of his process here and his outcomes are starting to tank.

 

[Empty Goal Net]

///

I just kind of doubt anyone is even available now given the recent interview. He spoke as if Oshie returning made a significant impact and I suspect he thinks the same thing about Wilson and Orlov returning. It’s way too optimistic IMO.

It's possible that either a) Mac has a date in mind when he will open the door to moving guys - and that date could be as soon as after tonight's game, or some time later in Dec or Jan - or b) he's positioning himself as a reluctant seller in an attempt to maximize the return.

 

[Jags]

Are you Lavi? When someone tells that player is not willing to adapt to this Capitals style, that makes me really question the person. Do you want your offensive players to adapt to this zero creativity, zero offense playstyle. You can tell how our only creative center in Kuznetsov is currently blooming under the Lavi gamebook. Offensive players need to play offense and be allowed to do that. Everyone remembers what Ovechkin went through when he was forced to defence first, it just doesn't work. What we are lacking is offense first guys, creative minds who can set up and make plays, team is already full on plugs and grinders. Yet somehow every tradeline we end up with cutting ties with another offensive prospect and bring in another NAK.

Dude, I'm not defending Lavi. I think he takes that shit too far. I'm all for accountability, but when you have players that are specialists (Sprong) or artists (Kuznetsov) you have to allow them to be who they are. I would rather still have damn near all of the young guys we lost to that kind of narrowminded bullshit than the crap we replaced them with.

So I'll say it again, I don't think that situation was as clear-cut as people made it out to be; that we got rid of Sprong because Sprong wouldn't adapt. There WAS an element of that, sure. Learning to play a more responsible, 200ft game doesn't have to gimp anything else you do. But Laviolette's "my way or the highway" stance on it serves no purpose.

I hate coaches that put systems before personnel. The people have to come first, and the system needs to utilize the talent you actually have. Square holes, round pegs, and all that. So while it's fair to say that Vrana and Sprong could have conformed more as others clearly have, the lines that Laviolette draws in the sand, his ridiculous doghouse benchings and deployments, and just plain ego have a tendency to run amok.

It's like he's never considered that sometimes HE needs to be the one to compromise. God forbid.

And given that the organization has sided with coaches pretty uniformly over the last several years at the direct expense of some really talented players now lighting it up elsewhere, the GM bears a portion of that blame.

 

[trick9]

GMBM isn't a moron. He knows the situation and he only stands to lose if he goes out saying that guys are available for trades. He knows the situation and is propably patient and hoping for a hail mary sort of run but i don't believe for a second that he isn't already making plan B for the scenario where we are out of the hunt before the deadline. There will be a bigger market for sellers closer to the deadline. He already mentioned before the Flames loss that we need to have a good road trip here and that we need to put together a string of good games to stay alive and right now we are going downhill fast.

 

[kicksavedave]

I understand people defending the team on Sprong if he was the only one...

But the list of young guys this team has dumped for nothing is so long that it baffles me that anyone is still defending management.

In hindsight I would have fired GMBM after 2018, but even without hindsight I would have fired him after last year.

In hindsight you would have fired the GM immediately after he won the teams first Stanley Cup in 44 years? Um, ok that would have been super popular around here That might have even been received as well as allowing Barry to quit right after winning a Cup.

I think its fair to criticise plenty of Bmac's moves in the past few years, but not in a vacuum by looking only at how the players performed elsewhere. I think its also fair to question Lavi being right for this team right now, but when he was hired it was universally supported after soooo many "never been an NHL coach" guys before him...

I think we also have to understand the idea of hanging on to a veteran roster to support Ovi's goal record and to give Ovi one last chance at a Cup, is likely not entirely BMac's decision, it likely is a high level strategy that Ted has either mandated, or at least supported after looking over all the options.

I'm 100% certain that Ted and BMac have discussed the timing on a rebuild, and agreed together to put it off until its absolutely no longer feasible. That it's happening, potentially this year, instead of next year, doesn't surprise us, and probably doesn't surprise them either. We had a pretty good long run of health, and shit is just catching up to us all at once...

The TDL is still a looong ways off.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Looks like Fever is on IR.

 

[g00n]

To Twabby's last point, GMBM has also always been unusually honest in the media about what his expectations are and what he's planning on doing. If he's saying he isn't planning on trading for anyone, or making any trades, and just standing pat for the time being I'd be more inclined to believe he's being entirely genuine.

There's a huge difference between reassuring fans "we're going to fix these things you see are wrong with the team" in the offseason FA market when you're mostly negotiating with an agent vs tipping your hand to shark GMs at the TDL when everyone is wheeling and dealing.

 

[Brian23]

There's a huge difference between reassuring fans "we're going to fix these things you see are wrong with the team" in the offseason FA market when you're mostly negotiating with an agent vs tipping your hand to shark GMs at the TDL when everyone is wheeling and dealing.

You sure? Because here he's openly stated he has to move someone, though I'm sure you response will be "that's obvious".

Brian MacLellan: ‘We’ll probably have to move someone’ before the season opener

The Washington Capitals head into Training Camp $1.36 million over the salary cap after a somewhat busy offseason by Brian MacLellan. The…

russianmachineneverbreaks.com

Or we can go back to prior to the Dillon trade where he had openly told the media that he was looking for defense. Or when he's openly talked about making a player for player trade to get a shake up (Burakovsky, that never materialized). Or he's said he's only looking for 13th and 7th style guys.

He has routinely been blunt about what he's trying to do, or blunt for a General Manager. You can play it off as playing the game but it's just flat out not been reality with him.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

No line changes tonight. Seriously? Do they care anymore at this point?