Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

[pman25]

Have to wonder if the Caps won't be in on some NCAA UFAs given that they can offer an immediate roster spot for some of the higher profile ones. Defensemen in particular seem like a sensible target.

Jake Livingstone?

 

[Holtbyisms]

Have to wonder if the Caps won't be in on some NCAA UFAs given that they can offer an immediate roster spot for some of the higher profile ones. Defensemen in particular seem like a sensible target.

One of the things I've been really hoping for. We've had good luck with it lately. Snivley, Nardella, Stevenson... even going back to old Schmitty.

But Lavi will need them to compete with Irwin and McIlrath for their spot and God knows nobody can outplay either of them in his loving eyes.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

If the Kings are ok shipping Quick to Siberia (Columbus) as a cap dump, I don’t want to hear how Backstrom or Oshie can’t or shouldn’t be traded. Backstrom’s full NMC ends after this year, starting on July 1 he has to submit a 15-team no trade list. Getting rid of his contract is the best way to opening a new window.

 

[g00n]

lmfao except the thing you were so butthurt about was people saying "this is crap, pack it up and sell it" while you were out there going "now wait, this could still be something"...

Painting yourself as a visionary for coming around late on what a bunch of us were saying as soon as Backstrom came back is... a choice.

Wrong. I said all along to be patient and wait until it got close to the TDL, because that's what Gmbm was doing. I calculated the points rate they'd need and projected they wouldn't make it when things turned really bad after the ASG.

Here we are. Deal with it, hater.

 

[Jags]

You made the claim that GMBM finds underpaid players at a higher rate than league average. You prove it.

He gave you a list, then you pretty much said all GMs do that. His list disproves that. That's a list of guys Mac got for nothing that the rest of the league passed on, some lost causes, some real discoveries. If every GM does that, where were they on those guys? I'm sure there were other dumpster dives those years that were comparable successes, but definitely not many and certainly not enough to assert that it's commonplace.

Show me the GMs with a similar nose for depth talent, and Mac has made similar acquisitions via trade that were head-scratchers at the time but proved to be really clever moves, so be sure to be thorough in your assessment. A simple list of GMs that have had as much success at it as Mac and also as routinely. Very short list. Might be 3. Definitely not a routine thing.

I'm plenty critical of MacLellan when it's called for, but this is one thing he's definitely excelled at. Not sure there's a GM that's been better at it over the same time period.

 

[g00n]

lmfao except the thing you were so butthurt about was people saying "this is crap, pack it up and sell it" while you were out there going "now wait, this could still be something"...

Painting yourself as a visionary for coming around late on what a bunch of us were saying as soon as Backstrom came back is... a choice.

Wait a minute...Backstrom came back in early January, right after the Caps hot streak in December. What kind of stupid move would it have been to sell then?

One example of me trying to tell you all there was clearly a plan in place. This is just Gmbm executing that exact plan.

Another:

A couple weeks ago:

Speculation: - Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

MacLellan is on record as planning on waiting until the last minute...but is it even feasible to pivot to last minute seller? What were the exact words? My read on something like that is to dispel talk of trades in the near term, to get the current squad to focus, and to keep values high. You...

forums.hfboards.com

Now go and search for all the posts whinging about how the GM sucks and has no idea what he's doing, can't trade, is going to ride mediocrity all the way to the offseason and lose UFAs for nothing, and should be fired.

 

[Portable Mink]

If the Kings are ok shipping Quick to Siberia (Columbus) as a cap dump, I don’t want to hear how Backstrom or Oshie can’t or shouldn’t be traded. Backstrom’s full NMC ends after this year, starting on July 1 he has to submit a 15-team no trade list. Getting rid of his contract is the best way to opening a new window.

Because we are better than that shitty organisation

 

[Jags]

Wrong. I said all along to be patient and wait until it got close to the TDL, because that's what Gmbm was doing. I calculated the points rate they'd need and projected they wouldn't make it when things turned really bad after the ASG.

Here we are. Deal with it, hater.

These are fair statements, but also not quite what HTFN was pointing to. The last example was the day of the Florida game. You spent all day sparring with everyone. Definitely the naysayers, which is fine, but also the folks who very reasonably came to feel like it was time to shift into seller mode. You put peoples' fandom in quotation marks, called people quitters, and really dug in, reiterating over and over all day that it was definitely not time yet; that anyone who felt that way was a quitter.

Then right after that game just a few hours later you completely changed your tune. "Sell everything." And I don't recall anyone toldyaso-ing or doing a victory lap. It was just nice to see you accept that things had gotten that bad. Your threshold was one game longer than many others, but it was somehow worth all that arguing. And it doesn't help that your tone a lot of the time makes it feel like "you f***ing moron" should be attached to the end of every sentence you write.

The people that actually fire you up are the real doomsayers that are always negative, never (or can never) back up what they say, and tend to post in two-word bursts -- "Fire Lavi." "Trade everyone!" But the people you most often argue with aren't that. They're as reasonable (!) and well-considered as you are, seem to know the sport well, and communicate clearly. They just don't agree with you. Those could be the best discussions on this forum, but they're not because of the ugliness.

And in damn near all of those ugly confrontations, there's very often some contrition afterwards. People that feel bad about getting caught up in it, admit that it got away from them. Not you. With you it's some form of, "No, I didn't cause this. You did. I was justified. I will post whatever the hell I want and I don't care if you don't like it."

A little humility would go a very long way. Instead it's the toldyasos, strutting, and "I'll rub your noses in shit..."

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Because we are better than that shitty organisation

So at what point is the team allowed to be competitive at all costs again? After Ovechkin retires? Seems dumb.

#8 is the only untouchable and that’s in large part because he’s still producing. Nick is actively hurting this team with his play on the ice and with his contract. Is it fair to his teammates, coaches, and management, and to the fans that just because he’s been a good solider for a long time he gets to sit around and collect a paycheck and not be held to the same standard?

It’s actually crazy to me people would rather be less good and have Nick on the team due to a misguided sense of loyalty rather than do whatever it takes to win another Cup with Ovechkin. Makes no sense to me.

 

[Brian23]

It’s actually crazy to me people would rather be less good and have Nick on the team due to a misguided sense of loyalty rather than do whatever it takes to win another Cup with Ovechkin. Makes no sense to me.

I'd bet it's because most fans are fans of the players less so then the team. It's not something I can imagine. I'm gonna support this team post Ovechkin just like I did pre-Ovechkin. And if the team gets better unloading these guys then hasta la vista.

 

[um]

Wrong. I said all along to be patient and wait until it got close to the TDL, because that's what Gmbm was doing. I calculated the points rate they'd need and projected they wouldn't make it when things turned really bad after the ASG.

Here we are. Deal with it, hater.

I remember all the bickering about Lavy changing up the lines after a hot December and your stance was we had time to try out new lines so we'll be ready for the playoffs.

You were in full denial of the possibility that the Caps weren't a good team and Lavy may not be a good coach.

It's not a big deal, you're not the only one to overestimate the Caps this year. You did take awhile to fall though, bless your heart.

 

[um]

So at what point is the team allowed to be competitive at all costs again? After Ovechkin retires? Seems dumb.

#8 is the only untouchable and that’s in large part because he’s still producing. Nick is actively hurting this team with his play on the ice and with his contract. Is it fair to his teammates, coaches, and management, and to the fans that just because he’s been a good solider for a long time he gets to sit around and collect a paycheck and not be held to the same standard?

It’s actually crazy to me people would rather be less good and have Nick on the team due to a misguided sense of loyalty rather than do whatever it takes to win another Cup with Ovechkin. Makes no sense to me.

To me its a question of what it will cost to get rick of Backstrom. We've seen teams spend 1st + to get rid of contracts half as bad as Backstrom's.

Are you into 2023 1st + 2024 1st + Iorio to get rid of Backstrom?

Obviously I pulled that out of my ass, but there is a point where it becomes too expensive to get rid of Backstrom.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

So at what point is the team allowed to be competitive at all costs again? After Ovechkin retires? Seems dumb.

#8 is the only untouchable and that’s in large part because he’s still producing. Nick is actively hurting this team with his play on the ice and with his contract. Is it fair to his teammates, coaches, and management, and to the fans that just because he’s been a good solider for a long time he gets to sit around and collect a paycheck and not be held to the same standard?

It’s actually crazy to me people would rather be less good and have Nick on the team due to a misguided sense of loyalty rather than do whatever it takes to win another Cup with Ovechkin. Makes no sense to me.

No one wants to keep Nick and suck. He has the worst contract in the NHL right now and that’s the loyalty. It would take every asset we just gained this week to get someone to take his contract so you might as well just keep it. He can retire early or we pay him til the end.

 

[Langway]

If the Kings are ok shipping Quick to Siberia (Columbus) as a cap dump, I don’t want to hear how Backstrom or Oshie can’t or shouldn’t be traded. Backstrom’s full NMC ends after this year, starting on July 1 he has to submit a 15-team no trade list. Getting rid of his contract is the best way to opening a new window.

Quick reportedly told LA he planned on continuing playing next season, elsewhere if need be. That's the beginning of the end for a lifer, esp. one struggling.

I think they'll probably give Backstrom another season to see if he can recapture his game. They need to have an off-season training plan as a key part of that. Then if by mid-season he's the same ineffective offensive player they'll need to consider next steps. If he doesn't want to hang them up then they can't keep relying on him while he's highly ineffective. There's some subtle underlying causes for optimism but by and large he seems pretty redundant. If there was a stronger UFA center market, or stronger UFA market period, I could maybe see them accelerating into a resolution. But with him and Carlson perhaps both massive unknowns next season (and going forward) they may have no other choice but to largely return the same core. Then sink or swim with them and be very prepared to cut the cord if it goes south again.

 

[Lou Sassole]

So at what point is the team allowed to be competitive at all costs again? After Ovechkin retires? Seems dumb.

#8 is the only untouchable and that’s in large part because he’s still producing. Nick is actively hurting this team with his play on the ice and with his contract. Is it fair to his teammates, coaches, and management, and to the fans that just because he’s been a good solider for a long time he gets to sit around and collect a paycheck and not be held to the same standard?

It’s actually crazy to me people would rather be less good and have Nick on the team due to a misguided sense of loyalty rather than do whatever it takes to win another Cup with Ovechkin. Makes no sense to me.

I want Nick to go into the off-season and prepare the best he can, but if he doesn't show marked improvement, he needs to be honest with himself. If at that point, he's ok being a 9.2 million dollar anchor of a 3rd line center, than I'm ok moving him. I think his limited NTC kicks in next year, so we would have the option, at least. He said he wants to finish his career hear, but it can't be as a severe impediment to the club.

 

[Lou Sassole]

No one wants to keep Nick and suck. He has the worst contract in the NHL right now and that’s the loyalty. It would take every asset we just gained this week to get someone to take his contract so you might as well just keep it. He can retire early or we pay him til the end.

Phoenix will have the Ladd and Little deals coming of the books over the nest 2 years, they will need salary just to hit the floor.

 

[hb13xchamps]

Nick isn’t going to walk away unless he has a major setback from now until next year. He said during his rehab that all he wanted to do was get his hip better to continue to play hockey. He successfully achieved that goal.

 

[ovikovy817]

I would be more happy with the flip the picks for established/young NHLers strategy than wait for these picks to develop( or not) for 5-6 years in Hershey

 

[g00n]

These are fair statements, but also not quite what HTFN was pointing to. The last example was the day of the Florida game. You spent all day sparring with everyone. Definitely the naysayers, which is fine, but also the folks who very reasonably came to feel like it was time to shift into seller mode. You put peoples' fandom in quotation marks, called people quitters, and really dug in, reiterating over and over all day that it was definitely not time yet; that anyone who felt that way was a quitter.

Then right after that game just a few hours later you completely changed your tune. "Sell everything." And I don't recall anyone toldyaso-ing or doing a victory lap. It was just nice to see you accept that things had gotten that bad. Your threshold was one game longer than many others, but it was somehow worth all that arguing. And it doesn't help that your tone a lot of the time makes it feel like "you f***ing moron" should be attached to the end of every sentence you write.

The people that actually fire you up are the real doomsayers that are always negative, never (or can never) back up what they say, and tend to post in two-word bursts -- "Fire Lavi." "Trade everyone!" But the people you most often argue with aren't that. They're as reasonable (!) and well-considered as you are, seem to know the sport well, and communicate clearly. They just don't agree with you. Those could be the best discussions on this forum, but they're not because of the ugliness.

And in damn near all of those ugly confrontations, there's very often some contrition afterwards. People that feel bad about getting caught up in it, admit that it got away from them. Not you. With you it's some form of, "No, I didn't cause this. You did. I was justified. I will post whatever the hell I want and I don't care if you don't like it."

A little humility would go a very long way. Instead it's the toldyasos, strutting, and "I'll rub your noses in shit..."

Ah, this is the point where you think you can step in and talk the same shit as everyone else but from a Mr. Neutral Observer position.

It was not one game later than everyone else. People have been calling for selling for MONTHS...even when they were in a playoff position.

The FLA game was the breaking point for the season...it was a must-win game and they were horrid. I had been saying for months they had to be in a position where they were not going to make the playoffs before they became sellers.

For weeks prior to that game I assessed their chances and their upcoming schedule, including the points % they probably needed to make the playoffs. They'd won 3 of 4 through the ASG including beating Boston. It was too early to sell.

By mid-February they'd finally gotten to a point where it was clear the teams behind them were gaining fast and they were not keeping up the necessary pace. I called DET and OTT and BUF to pass them if they didn't hit 65% points% after the ASG and they didn't come close. By the time of the FLA game I think it went up to 75% and there was no way that was going to happen.

A week later, they were selling.

As for who I argue with, I argue with just about everyone. If you say some stupid shit I may argue with you.

Case in point.

The rest of your "you're always shitty and everyone else apologizes" gaslighting is pure horseshit.

Ultimately, everyone else can play the game but you think you have to post asinine, distorted summaries like this one so you can be above it all and get attaboys from the people who post aforementioned stupid shit.

I remember all the bickering about Lavy changing up the lines after a hot December and your stance was we had time to try out new lines so we'll be ready for the playoffs.

You were in full denial of the possibility that the Caps weren't a good team and Lavy may not be a good coach.

It's not a big deal, you're not the only one to overestimate the Caps this year. You did take awhile to fall though, bless your heart.

Back then, for one game, it was true. People here were pissing their pants over lines in one game. While they were in a playoff spot.

Which is it....were they a good playoff team that needed to try and win that game, or a shitty team that had no chance anyway so the lines didn't matter?

I know for a fact I said this probably wasn't a Cup team but it was completely unreasonable to be blowing it up in November, or January.

I don't need your blessings. I have a hat.

 

[g00n]

Bottom line is there are lot of people here who've been pissing and moaning about Gmbm sucking ass for a very long time.

Now that he's knocking it out of the park at the TDL all the people who had no faith in his obvious plan really don't like being reminded of that fact.

 

[Cappy76]

I've not had a problem with GMBM I've been in agreement that there was a plan that this season was make or break before a retooling with the number of expiring contracts coming up this year. What I do have issue with our coaching.

 

[Drakon]

Ya know, if you're always fighting with everyone, and from what I've seen that appears to be the case, maybe it's you dude.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

It's true that finding underpaid players isn't that difficult. Every team has them. By definition. Because for every player that is overpaid there has to be a player that's underpaid. Otherwise that player wouldn't be overpaid.

Finding a list of underpaid players he found doesn't mean anything because you could do the same for every single GM in the league. If you want to say GMBM is elite at this, you need some comparison points don't you think?

Sure every team has underpaid players….many of whom they probably drafted.

GMBM has been solid at finding UFAs or castoffs who outperform when they get here….

 

[Drakon]

I've not had a problem with GMBM I've been in agreement that there was a plan that this season was make or break before a retooling with the number of expiring contracts coming up this year. What I do have issue with our coaching.

I'm of the opinion it should've started two years ago after they half assed the bubble, but yeah, I wouldn't strongly disagree with this.

 

[Cappy76]

I'm of the opinion it should've started two years ago after they half assed the bubble, but yeah, I wouldn't strongly disagree with this.

Right or wrong I can excuse the bubble season and the year after due in part to just how weird the two were.