Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

[hb13xchamps]

It's true that finding underpaid players isn't that difficult. Every team has them. By definition. Because for every player that is overpaid there has to be a player that's underpaid. Otherwise that player wouldn't be overpaid.

Finding a list of underpaid players he found doesn't mean anything because you could do the same for every single GM in the league. If you want to say GMBM is elite at this, you need some comparison points don't you think?

You keep saying this like it’s a thing, yet you aren’t providing any examples. It’s not like GMBM has had one or two examples of finding these “dumpster dive” players for cheap. He’s had multiple seasons worth of doing it. I get GMBM hasn’t been perfect, but to complain about getting the most out of players making $1 million or less is very odd

I dont think he ever comes back from his "illness"

He’s awaiting the birth of his child. I find it skeptical they’ll be able to make sure he’s back for the game tonight but we’ll see. A recall makes more sense at this point, especially if there are any Sheary/Eller deals in the works at the moment

 

[Brian23]

If you want to say GMBM is elite at this, you need some comparison points don't you think?

No, no I don't. All I need is a list of depth pieces he's brought in that have preformed well to elite. I did that. You are trying to refute that because doom and gloom about the GM is in vogue. However, instead of *actually* refuting it, you're trying to move the goal posts by saying I implied or said things I didn't so you can be right. You're also trying to equivocate underpaid players as the same as depth adds, as if a hot shot young gun on an ELC is the same as signing a journeyman.

And it's still a ridiculous take.

 

[hb13xchamps]

Well, here’s the problem. If he knew they would be terrible, why sign an aging goaltender for 5 years?

Please add that to your essay.

I see a lot of people upset with Kuemper and his contract and I just don’t get it. He routinely makes some great saves and has provided a steadying presence in net this season. I think his numbers are pretty solid considering the team defense in front of him hasn’t been good.

I thought the Kuemper deal was rather team friendly given the UFA market at the time. It could be worse and the Caps could have went the Jack Campbell route. He’s been awful for Edmonton.

 

[895]

No, no I don't. All I need is a list of depth pieces he's brought in that have preformed well to elite. I did that. You are trying to refute that because doom and gloom about the GM is in vogue. However, instead of *actually* refuting it, you're trying to move the goal posts by saying I implied or said things I didn't so you can be right. You're also trying to equivocate underpaid players as the same as depth adds, as if a hot shot young gun on an ELC is the same as signing a journeyman.

And it's still a ridiculous take.

I have a problem with your logic.


On the face of it, it's nonsensical to claim that GMBM or any GM is elite at something without comparing it to other GMs don't you think? Like you can't say McDavid is elite at skating without a frame of reference for what an average skater is. Even Nick Backstrom would be an elite skater in a beer league.

For you to simply take a list of good dumpster dives that GMBM has found and declare that to be elite just doesn't make sense and if you don't see that there's no point in discussing further.

For the record, I do think GMBM is better than average at dumpster diving. But he also is forced to dumpster dive a lot more due to our cap situation.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

With the Caps most likely to win the lottery - we will have Bedard up front which should help immediately.

Tampa won in 04 with some sketchy older guys but also a group of young guys all on entry deals far exceeding their worth at the time.

Welcome aboard Bedard!

Optimism is always welcome here!

 

[Brian23]

On the face of it, it's nonsensical to claim that GMBM or any GM is elite at something without comparing it to other GMs don't you think?

I see the straw-men are plentiful today.

For umpteenth time, no it's not. The only claim I made was GMBM had been great to elite at finding high preforming depth adds. All I needed to do was provide the names of depth add's the team has made under GMBM that have been excellent to elite. I did that.

You've continually tried to move the goalposts and frame this as a narrative vs. other teams, when I've done nor made any claims as such. You've continuously tried to reframe depth adds as underpaid/over paid players because we both know you're going for a rookie on an ELC gotcha. You move those goal posts and then expect me to have to answer them which is frankly stupid as shit. You made the claim about comparisons, you can refute or back it up if you want. I didn't. I made my point, you can't refute it on its merits so instead you continue to try to change the focus. That's on you.

 

[895]

The only claim I made was GMBM had been great to elite at finding high preforming depth adds. All I needed to do was provide the names of depth add's the team has made under GMBM that have been excellent to elite. I did that.

I really don't understand this. What does elite mean to you? Doesn't elite mean much better than average to you? You have to have a frame of reference of what average is first.


You don't agree that Nick Backstrom is a poor skater in the NHL but an elite beer league skater?

There's no goalpost moving or strawmanning.

lmao I realized I forgot rule 1 of the internet. All arguments eventually devolve into semantic arguments.

 

[Langway]

He routinely strikes diamonds in the rough who provide much more then their cap hit. The problem with this team has entirely been the guys who're "core" with massive cap hits providing less then what they're paid. Hell, this year a lot of our depth has actually been elite and it doesn't matter because the core has been so bad.

When you can't trade those guys, there's only so much you can do.

There is a difference between really strong short-term stopgap type value and true diamonds in the rough that groomed into more than that. He hasn't found his Verhaeghe. He hasn't hit to that extent and it's arguably what they've needed most the past few years. He's found some really solid support players, mostly down the lineup. They've done a solid job of rounding out the roster with limited cap resources but it's probably going to need to further improve if the current course is to remain viable.

The closest top six hit lately would be Strome but 5v5 it hasn't exactly made a difference and I'm not sure the 5x5 extension promises stellar value. It was and is a worthwhile gamble to some extent but, again, it'll need to improve further to ward off yet more decline.

 

[895]

There is a difference between really strong short-term stopgap type value and true diamonds in the rough that groomed into more than that. He hasn't found his Verhaeghe. He hasn't hit to that extent and it's arguably what they've needed most the past few years. He's found some really solid support players, mostly down the lineup. They've done a solid job of rounding out the roster with limited cap resources but it's probably going to need to further improve if the current course is to remain viable.

The closest top six hit lately would be Strome but 5v5 it hasn't exactly made a difference and I'm not sure the 5x5 extension promises stellar value. It was and is a worthwhile gamble to some extent but, again, it'll need to improve further to ward off yet more decline.

I think Jensen qualifies as a real diamond in the rough he found. Though twabby should get credit for that one as GMBM clearly stole that one from him.

 

[Langway]

I think Jensen qualifies as a real diamond in the rough he found. Though twabby should get credit for that one as GMBM clearly stole that one from him.

As far as trades, yes, though that one did take some time to solidify. Definitely the biggest win given that they should have him for seven seasons.

 

[Ovie's Neighbor]

GMBMs trades have been OK. I always hated the Mantha trade but some other trades have been good. My biggest issue has been drafting which has been atrocious.

 

[BiPolar Caps]

Looking at next season, Capitals could have 3 members of the 2018 draft class, manning the left side on defense.

Sundin drafted at 29
AA drafted at 31
Fever drafted at 46

 

[bacchist]

It's true that finding underpaid players isn't that difficult. Every team has them. By definition. Because for every player that is overpaid there has to be a player that's underpaid. Otherwise that player wouldn't be overpaid.

Finding a list of underpaid players he found doesn't mean anything because you could do the same for every single GM in the league. If you want to say GMBM is elite at this, you need some comparison points don't you think?

No

 

[Vilica]

The flip side to this is he almost always adds fairly middling role players at full price instead of striking a diamond in the rough on a player with potential high end skill but potential holes as well, It works when you inherit a prime Ovechkin, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Carlson, Holtby and need to plug in the holes lower in the lineup with dependable clock punchers. There's no Marchessault, Verhaeghe, Panarin, Kuzmenko, 2016 Kessel, etc. The one home run with Oshie, a very high end role player but role player nonetheless, and an endless parade of Ellers, Paniks, Shearys, Hathaways, Hagelins, Williams's, Manthas, Dowds, Johanssons, Kubels, etc. Ditto on defense, even though Niskanen was a pretty high end add he still inherited the 2 best defensemen he's had his entire tenure. He's more of a good AGM you task with rounding out a roster with a McDavid and Drasaitl already on it than someone who can bring gamebreakers on board

I agree with you in part, but I think he's only rounded out the roster because his core has been elite for so long. Looking just post-Cup, the lack of impact adds is a combination of lack of cap space and also a lack of opportunity. Managing the transition of Backstrom and Oshie from top-6 to middle-six was always going to be difficult, and the pandemic squeezing the cap didn't help. Mac got a bit screwed by the timing of the Backstrom deal - he signed it in January, NHL shut down in March. He waits two more months on that deal, he probably saves a million on the cap (or alternatively, the Backstrom deal doesn't look as bad [it's still bad] in a 90m cap world).

In the 18-19 season, our top 6 was 8 92 43, Vrana 19 77, with Burakovsky still there. They ran it back that year, with Kuznetsov 26, Vrana 22, Wilson 24, Bura 23 to complement Ovi 33, Backstrom 31, Oshie 32. Next year, lost Burakovsky, and haven't really been able to replace him. They were 5th in goals in 18-19, tied 3rd in 19-20 (but had played 1 game less), tied 4th in 21-22, dropped to 10th last year, and 17th now. He needed a forward in the draft years between 15-19, and they couldn't find one. If he drafts Debrincat instead of Lucas Johansen, nobody's saying anything about his draft record. (With hindsight, the important drafts were 15 and 16, because they punted on the 17 draft, and if you look at the 18 draft, there are no real impact forwards around where they drafted Alexeyev and Fehervary.)

 

[hb13xchamps]

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Looking at next season, Capitals could have 3 members of the 2018 draft class, manning the left side on defense.

Sundin drafted at 29
AA drafted at 31
Fever drafted at 46

If AA can’t even get into a game right now, what makes you think he is in the top six next season?

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

If AA can’t even get into a game right now, what makes you think he is in the top six next season?

The trainwreck that is Lavi will be long gone.

 

[895]

Hofer is a great name.

 

[BiPolar Caps]

If AA can’t even get into a game right now, what makes you think he is in the top six next season?

Evidently you missed my wording "could have".

 

[Gurglesons]

Eller to the Avs.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

Eller to the Avs.

That's a good fit for them.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

These future 2nd and 3rds we are getting are good trade chips. They wont expire the second the draft starts and will be good to use for upgrades.

 

[HTFN]

HFCaps: ZOMG! GMBM HAS NO IDEA WHAT HE'S DOING! FIRE EVERYONE!!!

g00n: Relax. He has a plan. The contracts all expire this year for a reason. It's not a coincidence. If they're sucking by the TDL he'll start moving UFAs and retooling.

HFCaps: YOU DON'T KNOW THAT! MANAGEMENT SUCK UP! DOOM!!!

*Caps nosedive...TDL approaches*

lmfao except the thing you were so butthurt about was people saying "this is crap, pack it up and sell it" while you were out there going "now wait, this could still be something"...

Painting yourself as a visionary for coming around late on what a bunch of us were saying as soon as Backstrom came back is... a choice.

 

[Holtbyisms]

Doing the arm chair GM on cap friendly and even with all these guys gone the salary cap situation isn't anything to be excited about. Need to move dead weight like Mantha or there's no way a "retool" works. It's only a run it back with the remaining core and one or two Hershey guys. Which is really what we should have done this year to try and see if it sparked the vets before we crashed and burned.

 

[Langway]

Have to wonder if the Caps won't be in on some NCAA UFAs given that they can offer an immediate roster spot for some of the higher profile ones. Defensemen in particular seem like a sensible target.