Hivemind
We're Touched
In 2022-23, sure. But in 2020-21? It was essentially the exact same team as Reirden had the year before (up until the point he refused to utilize Vrana and he got traded for Mantha at the deadline).
Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!
- Thread starter AlexModvechkin8
- Start date
- Status
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
- 66,371
- 21,386
If you’re mad he hasn’t torn up the core, look no further than the Owner.
Chimaera
same ol' Caps
That's the thing. Laviolette is a coach you're trying to squeeze the last few bits out of the team with. He was the only real gamble they had to try and improve the roster given.
It didn't work.
But Reirden was given a Cup winning roster (for the most part) and lost in the first round. Sure, it was the goal of trying to continue the process that was happening the year before. Not sink the ship (man I'm using a lot of boat metaphors) as it stood. He was great at developing defenders. Not so much on the whole organizational focus, structure and keeping order.
I'm not defending or saying Laviolette is the guy who should helm the roster. He should go. He likely will. He has contributed to where the team is.
But I completely understand the move by the GM to go and get him. He was to some extent the type of coach that they needed. Whether he was THE GUY to get, clearly it hasn't worked.
As for judgement on the GM, we all know, for better or worse, Ted is not changing the GM.
Chimaera
same ol' Caps
For the main critique of Lavi, which seems to be that he does not play the kids or develop talent, that's not his main skill. This roster, as presently constructed, and as it has been since probably 2018-2019, if not earlier, is to try and squeeze as much out of the core talent of Ovechkin, Carlson and Backstrom. There are others, like Oshie, Wilson and Kuznetsov, who are also being paid to be a part of that core, but they aren't the focus of the roster.
That's been the SINGULAR purpose of this roster. It likely will still be so going forward, unless they do something drastic (which they likely won't).
The issue has been, if you don't have Carlson, and Backstrom is 2C/3C from here till he retires at best, this roster is not good enough.
Who's fault is that? There's plenty to go around, but it's the goal of the organization to try and get Ovechkin another ring. Not to get one 5 or 6 seasons from now when he's gone. The question is going to be this offseason, is that still the goal? Can they rebuild fast enough to still do both? Are they smart/savvy enough to rebuild on the fly? Can they find a game changing talent or three in the UFA / trade / draft that would make a difference soon enough? The farm is barren. There's some parts, but none of them are going to be game changers as it stands. The best might be a Russian kid who's a couple years off. Beyond that? Maybe a few 2-3rd liners, and some depth defensemen. That's really it.
That's been the SINGULAR purpose of this roster. It likely will still be so going forward, unless they do something drastic (which they likely won't).
The issue has been, if you don't have Carlson, and Backstrom is 2C/3C from here till he retires at best, this roster is not good enough.
Who's fault is that? There's plenty to go around, but it's the goal of the organization to try and get Ovechkin another ring. Not to get one 5 or 6 seasons from now when he's gone. The question is going to be this offseason, is that still the goal? Can they rebuild fast enough to still do both? Are they smart/savvy enough to rebuild on the fly? Can they find a game changing talent or three in the UFA / trade / draft that would make a difference soon enough? The farm is barren. There's some parts, but none of them are going to be game changers as it stands. The best might be a Russian kid who's a couple years off. Beyond that? Maybe a few 2-3rd liners, and some depth defensemen. That's really it.
Langway
In den Wolken
- Jul 7, 2006
- 32,967
- 10,158
I think we know enough that in the short-term it's unlikely they're able to finesse it to the point of making themselves a playoff team next season. Teams like Buffalo and Ottawa are fueled by increasingly confident younger cores that are highly motivated and hungry to prove themselves. Florida will remain very much in the mix with closer-to-prime cores as well. Does Washington still have that hunger? I'm not sure at this point Backstrom & Oshie are effective enough to where that even matters. Mentally the same deal goes for Kuznetsov & Mantha. Even if they're able to shed two or three of those players does it lead to quality core pieces coming back? Too many questions, too many holes to believe this is a quick fix.
More likely I'd guess '24-25 is the beginning of them being able to claw their way back but a lot needs to go right in the meantime. Miroshnichenko and likely a top ten pick will need to pretty quickly gain traction as key transitional core pieces. They'll need to hire something of a miracle worker developer behind the bench, perhaps coupled with more sweeping changes among the assistants and goalie coach. Plus, by that point who knows how much better BUF/OTT/FLA will have gotten or whether someone else currently in the basement in the East adds Bedard/Fantilli and starts turning it around.
The main danger now I think shifts to not overcommitting this off-season in the UFA market for middling players with term at the expense of maintaining more flexibility to make impact additions. To essentially settle on shooting for possibly-maybe being in the playoff mix probably shouldn't be their goal next season. Once you've started the process of scaling back they've got to methodically build it back up again with much more patience and selectivity than any point in recent history. If they once again seek out shortcuts and stopgaps to give them a token chance it's probably just going to lead to the same outcome.
More likely I'd guess '24-25 is the beginning of them being able to claw their way back but a lot needs to go right in the meantime. Miroshnichenko and likely a top ten pick will need to pretty quickly gain traction as key transitional core pieces. They'll need to hire something of a miracle worker developer behind the bench, perhaps coupled with more sweeping changes among the assistants and goalie coach. Plus, by that point who knows how much better BUF/OTT/FLA will have gotten or whether someone else currently in the basement in the East adds Bedard/Fantilli and starts turning it around.
The main danger now I think shifts to not overcommitting this off-season in the UFA market for middling players with term at the expense of maintaining more flexibility to make impact additions. To essentially settle on shooting for possibly-maybe being in the playoff mix probably shouldn't be their goal next season. Once you've started the process of scaling back they've got to methodically build it back up again with much more patience and selectivity than any point in recent history. If they once again seek out shortcuts and stopgaps to give them a token chance it's probably just going to lead to the same outcome.
Last edited:
Sooo, let's say GMBM sells off a few more UFAs for draft picks. Are there any desirable-but-realistic trade targets out there that GMBM could use those accumulated picks on to immediately inject youth/speed/skill into next year's lineup? And are there any good UFAs actually available who fit the same bill?
With any luck, GMBM might also be able to use some of those accumulated picks as sweeteners for taking other players/contracts (Oshie, Mantha, Kuznetsov) off our hands to free up more cap space.
With any luck, GMBM might also be able to use some of those accumulated picks as sweeteners for taking other players/contracts (Oshie, Mantha, Kuznetsov) off our hands to free up more cap space.
Jacoby4HOF66
Pull my finger
- Mar 13, 2009
- 30,523
- 7,728
g00n
Retired Global Mod
- Nov 22, 2007
- 31,266
- 15,867
What exactly would be a testable hypothesis in any of this?
Oh boy. Not sure I’m allowed to bid though.
What's that supposed to mean?
RedRocking
Registered User
Oh boy. Not sure I’m allowed to bid though.
I keep telling you guys - Ted is on his way to 41 different alt-jerseys next year. Book it!
Want a Backstrom jersey in Pens colors, with an AARP logo? Sure, why not! How bout a Carlson in those awesome 80s black-red-gold Canucks sweaters? You betcha! A Kuzy with “We’re Going Tanking!” on the front? That’s our best seller!
Why? F*** you, that’s why! Anything to take your money!!
Disclaimer: this post is only making fun of Ted’s marketing “genius”, and not these worthwhile causes. Peace.
Last edited:
Langway
In den Wolken
- Jul 7, 2006
- 32,967
- 10,158
Chychrun. Friedman wondered as sort of an aside whether Washington now, esp. with all of their blueline expiring, could be interested. But unless STL goes for Meier it's hard to see how they wouldn't have the advantage. Meier being the other obvious option, though one likely requiring even more assets. Maybe DeBrincat shakes loose in Ottawa in the off-season but generally teams don't exactly line up offering young transitional type pieces.
I don't know how many options will be out there that have the work ethic, leadership, athleticism and IQ needed. It's probably a pretty short list. Instead I think it's basically unavoidable they're going to need to admit that fixes will need to come primarily through the draft and through being a lot more detail and development oriented. That's going to require a degree of patience and faith that it's hard to say whether they have in them.
Ovechkins Wodka
Registered User
I just read the athletic graded the caps trade as a C minus and the Bruins as an A
Good job GMBM
Good job GMBM
Thoroughly disagree with that assessment. I think getting those picks for expiring contracts was a solid deal. Also like that they didn't wait around. Saw a fair price and went for it.
Not to mention it's a much better than their usual strategy of letting UFAs walk for nothing...
Empty Goal Net
Hide! Homeland Security Is On Patrol
- Feb 13, 2010
- 4,536
- 3,574
Agreed. Mgmt needs to accept that the chances of making the playoffs are likely to be slim for next season and NOT overcommit whatever assets they acquire in the meantime to what would probably be overpriced short-term patches. (Of course, their thinking could change if they can get significant value for Kuzy/Mantha and Oshie/Backstrom choose to retire. Then I'd expect them to bid for high-quality UFAs and trade some of their accumulated picks for others.) Look to the following season ('24-25) as when the team will truly be competitive. For next season, get Ovie whatever complementary players are needed to facilitate 895.
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
- 66,371
- 21,386
I’m still a little surprised we couldn‘t get a prospect thrown in…..
They might be able to take on a contract or two for next season in some additional trades. Maybe extract and extra pick and get a serviceable enough player for next year. Thinking a D mostly, like taking on a Sean Walker or something. I'd also look at Minnesota and maybe try to pry Calen Addison. They have tight cap room available, Brock Faber is pro-ready, and Addison is due a raise and arb eligible. Also been scratched a few times. A TVR/Jensen for Addison could work
Also, there is no promise the Bruins win the SC either. They are a lot stronger than the power house they were, but no givens in the NHL.
Ovechkins Wodka
Registered User
Did we even scout Boston at all? We had no one to ask for throw ins? Lol
Boston clearly did getting a long shot player from the Wild.
ClevelandCapsfan
Registered User
- May 24, 2021
- 2,144
- 1,746
Pundits praising the Bruins are assuming they acquired the normal Orlov performance level. His post-injury performance has been subpar and barely top 4 worthy. There is no guarantee his performance magically improves after putting on the Bruins’ sweater.
Langway
In den Wolken
- Jul 7, 2006
- 32,967
- 10,158
The UFA market looks awful, assuming Pastrnak & Larkin both re-up. Max Domi is the leading scorer otherwise. Crucially, the blueline crop also looks pretty bad. In light of that I could see them keeping a few of Jensen/TVR/Gus...and certainly if Orlov hits the market they might as well give it another go. Unless Pastrnak or Larkin hit the market it's best to largely avoid UFA. They may need depth and dumpster dive here and there but the time of mere tweaking is over.
I guess it would be worth giving Greenway/Puljujarvi types a shot down the stretch but they're well below where they ought to be aiming. A Jeannot type at the right price point could make some sense as well but those are peripheral additions. If they're going to shut down Carlson I wonder if they won't try to weaponize their cap space, particularly if they do manage to move off a non-expiring contract or maybe shut down Oshie also. But there aren't obvious trade targets out there with term remaining that would provide a big immediate boost. A Nick Schmaltz doesn't really do that I don't think. Boeser wouldn't either. Karlsson is presumably too old (?), despite a Norris worthy effort this season. It's going to be really tough striking the right balance giving Ovechkin better support yet not heedlessly going about it.
Ovechkins Wodka
Registered User
A lot of contenders are looking for cap. Space to add in the arms race. We could take a rangers dump so they get Kane. Or just eat cap space like the Wild did with Orlov.
Langway
In den Wolken
- Jul 7, 2006
- 32,967
- 10,158
Sure but then you're just getting their Craig Smiths and more futures probably. Definitely worth it to pile on more assets, esp. if the contracts are expiring, but I don't think that will be a prime means of directly improving. They're not so flush with cap space next season to expect them to be able to leverage what little flexibility they do have toward significant adds. They can do some business and maybe make some swaps but, again, hard to have high expectations that solutions will just immediately, conveniently materialize for them.
What they arguably need most is a vast upgrade in a legit, play-driving two-way center. And good luck finding those at their convenience.
Hivemind
We're Touched
Would rather they keep Jensen (assuming he's willing to sign a ~3ish year deal), but if they do trade him they absolutely have to hang onto TvR.
- Status
Ad
Latest posts
-
-
OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 5 and 2 Justin who? Hand the Fields to Wilson
- Latest: Mr Jeff Jimerson
