Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

[Langway]

Ovechkin will get it if there's promise and tangible evidence they're back headed in the right direction. That's going to take perhaps quite some time, though, and with the potential for further decline in the meantime. Should they manage to move Kuznetsov, Mantha and Oshie it's likely to come with some retention on their part, or at least taking back similarly problematic contracts. When you're forcing such drastic change at once you're at the mercy of the market and what's available. It's hard to believe such a quick restructuring, even if executed pretty decently, will be enough to position them to be highly competitive in the near-term. They are not close at the moment and it's hard to just pin that on those three poor contracts and the coaching staff. The mix is really, really poor.

They're still highly likely to have Carlson & Backstrom around providing not enough all-around impact. There's not enough ROI to expect the mix to be viable any time soon. They will need a miracle worker behind the bench to get it back on the rails. And I don't know that the front office is so brilliant as to even really get at the heart of many of their many various lingering issues.

 

[g00n]

Yes. Two years worth.

Please share.

I agree with leaving the young guys in Hershey. This is not the team, coach, or season to give anyone a 20 game try out. It's a recipe for failure. As mentioned, the team / room is probably not a great environment due to the "wheels falling off" recently. The coach is a lame duck who has a reputation (rightly or wrongly, among fans at least) for preferring veterans to a fault. The season is lost and at some point things will most likely go to a "run out the clock" mentality in that room. Why take any young player from a successful team, with teammates who have bonded over a season, and then insert them into the DC mess?

Exactly. And I'm not sure if some fans were around for the firesale and rebuild 20 years ago. They put some young prospects together with JAGs and a few disgruntled older players and the results were not pretty. Hard to say if that really stunted the growth of those players but few if any lived up to their potential.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

To me everything points there that we will have good chance to bring them back.

Bruins can't keep Orlov. The fact that there aren't even any conditional picks in the deal for that case leads me to believe that GMBM knows this already. I think they both parted on good terms and were likely traded to their preferred destination.

We should keep an eye if his property goes up for sale or not. I know I’ve seen videos that he built in ice rink in his basement that he was training in during COVID lockdowns

 

[Empty Goal Net]

I don't know if it needs to go toxic per se. Sour is enough and it may quickly go there. It won't be as fun showing up to work with little expectation for success and little faith that solutions are forthcoming. In the short-term there's likely a lot of confusion as to direction with so much up in the air. Hard to imagine they'll be as tight. It'll just be a job (thanks Mantha!). You've got Ovechkin as a leader. Maybe Wilson. Who else? Vets like Backstrom & Oshie aren't capable of it on the ice so whatever wisdom they supply off of it doesn't hit home as much competitively. The components to win are lacking and without easier routes to wins they'll probably keep finding lots of ways to lose. If they're not even an 80 point team this season I don't know how they can expect to run it back next season with this core group and come close to competing for a playoff spot.

One thing that somewhat stands out in MacLellan not driving the hardest bargain exactly in the Boston trade is that it may be a signal that he intends to do a lot more business (in addition to moving out the rest of the pending UFAs). Maybe not. Maybe there aren't many takers or swap fits to execute non-rental trades in so little time. But I wonder with them being so ready to make that trade at this moment when they could have otherwise picked up a sorely needed win against Anaheim...does it not signal essentially being finished with this group? Who in this group is not declining and outperforming their contract? If the standard has suddenly evolved there's a great deal that deserves scrutiny.

Edit: Curiously, the potential for that sourness also could threaten the pursuit of 895 as well. One way or another they need to figure a way out of that beyond wishful thinking or unlimited patience. Hard to figure then that this will be a quiet reload. Too much else isn't functional.

We don't know what the room was like immediately prior to yesterday's trade. Presumably nearly everyone was happy during the December run, but since then there've been multiple guys screwing up. In their losses, sometimes nearly the entire team played poorly, sometimes it was a handful of players with blown coverages, leaky goals, off-the-mark passes and the like. It's appeared that various players have had words with teammates after opponents' goals. So sour, or whatever the mood is currently, may not be a new thing. In fact, given the lack of a Lavi extension and the way the team has played in 2023, last night's trade might be a bit of a relief ... the players may not know exactly what is coming next, but they are aware that changes are afoot, and whether an individual is here or elsewhere next season, the guys around them and their coaches will be at least somewhat different.

 

[Chimaera]

I don't think it's all on the players. Injuries are part of it as well, but there's plenty of blame to go around beyond just the players not performing. there's some accountability that has to start with the top, and then the coaching, and also the players.

But the roster was constructed knowing they likely could not count on some of the injury players. They did find some cheap, decent pickups to flesh out the roster, but at the end of the day, some of what they're paying for just isn't good enough. When injuries happened, what was already a team playing from a thinner point, only exacerbated those problems.

I mean, for what it's worth, Strome and Milano, while decent pickups, should not be amongst your top set of players. That's good for finding them, but it's also a question of what did you have before that point.

We can say, well, Mantha and Eller aren't performing. Who signed or traded for those guys? Who can't get them going?

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

And for people already saying next season is lost just remember we played pretty much the entire year without Tom Wilson, and John Carlson. Most would say two of our very best players.

 

[Chimaera]

Of course Ovechkin is salty his buddy is going. He's going to be even more salty if they could find a taker for Kuznetsov.

He might be even more salty when likely they're not going to be able to turn it around in time to compete again. But... that's the cycle of the sport. He also gets paid like a top player, which means there's less money for others. It happens. It sucks that right now all of his personal life stuff collided with a failed season, but there's not much that can be done for that.

 

[Misery74]

Please share.



Exactly. And I'm not sure if some fans were around for the firesale and rebuild 20 years ago. They put some young prospects together with JAGs and a few disgruntled older players and the results were not pretty. Hard to say if that really stunted the growth of those players but few if any lived up to their potential.

I’ve been around for it all.

As far as evidence. Why isn’t Alexeyev playing? He’s scratched every night. Why isn’t he is Hershey getting ice time? I’ll tell you why, because the coach is an idiot. He’d rather trot out Irwin every night than see if the player we drafted in the first round can be an effective NHL defenseman.

And as long as we are talking about results not being pretty, what about these results? Are they pretty? We just lost at home to the worst team in the league. Unsurprisingly by the way.

 

[Chimaera]

I'm not Laviolette's biggest fan, but the man does have a ring. He was brought in to try and get something different out of a veteran group. Not worry about playing / developing kids.

He's been consistent in that. The question now is, just how far down the rebuild are the Caps going to go. Is this a shuffle the deck chairs, and try and patch it together in the offseason again? Is it a 2-3 year process? If it's not a shuffle the deck and try and figure it out next season, then he is not the guy for the job. Heck, he's likely not even interested in that job.

 

[g00n]

I’ve been around for it all.

As far as evidence. Why isn’t Alexeyev playing? He’s scratched every night. Why isn’t he is Hershey getting ice time? I’ll tell you why, because the coach is an idiot. He’d rather trot out Irwin every night than see if the player we drafted in the first round can be an effective NHL defenseman.

And as long as we are talking about results not being pretty, what about these results? Are they pretty? We just lost at home to the worst team ever n the league. Unsurprisingly by the way.

Ok so you have no evidence.

But we're not going to fire the coach for not playing enough AHL players all year based on your opinion.

We're not done making moves, most likely. It's still possible they may need to call some players up anyway. Or rotate some guys once officially eliminated.

But they're not going to fire the coach right now, imo.

Lavi is not tanking. He's coaching for his own future employment, wherever that is. He's still trying to win games with what he sees as the best roster.

As for AA you don't fire a coach for playing a veteran D-man over a prospect in a season where you're trying to make the playoffs. Once their eliminated officially that may change.

 

[Misery74]

I'm not Laviolette's biggest fan, but the man does have a ring. He was brought in to try and get something different out of a veteran group. Not worry about playing / developing kids.

He's been consistent in that. The question now is, just how far down the rebuild are the Caps going to go. Is this a shuffle the deck chairs, and try and patch it together in the offseason again? Is it a 2-3 year process? If it's not a shuffle the deck and try and figure it out next season, then he is not the guy for the job. Heck, he's likely not even interested in that job.

He was brought here to win hockey games.

 

[Misery74]

Ok so you have no evidence.

But we're not going to fire the coach for not playing enough AHL players all year based on your opinion.

We're not done making moves, most likely. It's still possible they may need to call some players up anyway. Or rotate some guys once officially eliminated.

But they're not going to fire the coach right now, imo.

Lavi is not tanking. He's coaching for his own future employment, wherever that is. He's still trying to win games with what he sees as the best roster.

As for AA you don't fire a coach for playing a veteran D-man over a prospect in a season where you're trying to make the playoffs. Once their eliminated officially that may change.

Laviolette played the corpse of Chara over Siegs. That turned out to be a terrible miscalculation. It’s Chara, so I get it.

Irwin is no f***ing Chara.

 

[tycoonheart]

I get that Lavi has had success with some teams in the past but he is not a good fit for this team. This much is evident. And I think it was evident after that loss in the playoffs his first year when the Islanders destroyed us. Honestly he makes Rierden look like a decent coach.

Oops I think I am getting my coaches mixed up. I think it was Rierden who lost to Isles. Lavi's first year we lost to Bruins.

 

[Chimaera]

Todd Reirden? Really? Yeesh the memories of many are short.

 

[895]

Todd Reirden? Really? Yeesh the memories of many are short.

In terms of results, what has Lavi done better than Reirden? Worse regular season results, same playoff results.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Lavi will be gone in a few months Ted rarely pays 2 coaches. I do hear there’s a coach living in Hershey. That’s pretty good at developing young players.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

In terms of results, what has Lavi done better than Reirden? Worse regular season results, same playoff results.

You conveniently left out he was given a worse roster.

 

[895]

You conveniently left out he was given a worse roster.

I didn't conveniently leave it out, it's just not a testable hypothesis. Though I do think it's true.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

You conveniently left out he was given a worse roster.

Details don’t fit the narrative….

 

[EroCaps]

Blaming Lavy is a waste of time.

His team is washed up and the guys the bring in (Mantha, Strome, Milano) are cast offs from non playoff teams for a reason.

 

[Brian23]

Blaming Lavy is a waste of time.

His team is washed up and the guys the bring in (Mantha, Strome, Milano) are cast offs from non playoff teams for a reason.

Well this is hyperbole. Mantha wasn't a cast off for Detroit, we just offered a more dynamic player and picks. Strome was one of Chicago's best players. Milano is really the only one that fits that bill and he's been legitimately good.

It's like calling Oshie a castoff from the Blues, it's just being salty to be salty at that point.

 

[895]

Details don’t fit the narrative….

Who is responsible for giving Lavy worse and worse rosters? Should maybe that guy be fired?

 

[Brian23]

Who is responsible for giving Lavy worse and worse rosters? Should maybe that guy be fired?

Who was Ted going to hire that wasn't going to give Backstrom a big money contract? Or Oshie? Who was he going to hire that was gonna stop Carlson taking a 90 mile a hour fastball to the temple?

The depth on this team has not only been good, they've been elite in many circumstances. The entire issue with this team has been the core that has basically been untouchable for 20 years. Ted does not allow changes to the core unless forced.

 

[Langway]

The main thing with Lavi is there is no future there whatsoever. It's always all at stake today and that's it. Rinse and repeat. But once you start breaking it down where is that motivation coming from? Where is the perspective?

There's really no choice to be made if they want some developing upside and the promise of a new beginning. It's not all on him. I think MacLellan consistently fails to adequately check and restrain his coaches to make them more effective. He just leaves them to their own devices and, surprise surprise, they don't care about tomorrow.

 

[895]

I just can't believe there are GMBM or Lavi defenders left. Both suck ass and should be fired, even if it doesn't change anything, because that should be the natural consequence of incompetence.

"Lavy is not playing young guys and only playing vets because he's results oriented. He doesn't care about developing young guys, only results matter"

"hurr durr, Lavy isn't winning but it isn't his fault because injuries, you can't just look at results"