Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

[twabby]

I would be open to the idea but it would mean both of Jensen and Orlov cant not be extended under the salary cap. And we would have to trade most our picks and CMM and Jimmi and i dont see how thats the best idea for a punchers chance vs Boston or the Canes in 7 games.

Karlsson isn't a rental though, so even if they he wouldn't turn them into a contender this year he'd be able to help change their fortunes for the next 4 years.

It's a risk but there's no more potentially impactful player in the league right now aside from McDavid. Even if Karlsson regresses a bit next year that's still a clear bonafide #1D. People also don't realize that he was still an excellent player last year even though he didn't have the gaudy point totals. He's also been a postseason beast. There's a case to be made for him winning the Conn Smythe in 2017, even though Ottawa didn't even make the final.

If they are going to buy then this is the guy they should target. I agree that he's a unique opportunity that should change the "sell!" calculus but even then they should probably also sell some pieces.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Karlsson isn't a rental though, so even if they he wouldn't turn them into a contender this year he'd be able to help change their fortunes for the next 4 years.

It's a risk but there's no more potentially impactful player in the league right now aside from McDavid. Even if Karlsson regresses a bit next year that's still a clear bonafide #1D. People also don't realize that he was still an excellent player last year even though he didn't have the gaudy point totals. He's also been a postseason beast. There's a case to be made for him winning the Conn Smythe in 2017, even though Ottawa didn't even make the final.

If they are going to buy then this is the guy they should target. I agree that he's a unique opportunity that should change the "sell!" calculus but even then they should probably also sell some pieces.

EK is a nice pipe dream but I don't see how it could happen. How do you make the money work? Let's say they could get San Jose to retain $500k, that's still $11M per year so they'd be paying Carlson and Karlsson $19M combined. They'd probably have to roll something like this next year to make the money work.

Fehervary-Karlsson
Johansen-Carlson
Alexeyev-TvR (if TvR doesn't require a substantial raise)

If you add Karlsson's $11M to the team next year at a minimum Oshie or Mantha would need to be good and likely either both or one and Kuznetsov as well. Wouldn't cry at all if any or all of those players were moved to make room for EK65 but what market do those guys have? And that's without even discussing the price to acquire EK.

Curious to hear your plan for how you'd make this work from a roster and salary cap perspective.

Also there's no way Joe B wouldn't short-circuit if JC and EK were on the same team. He'd keel over and his systems processor would burn out after saying "no relation" five times in the first game.

 

[twabby]

EK is a nice pipe dream but I don't see how it could happen. How do you make the money work? Let's say they could get San Jose to retain $500k, that's still $11M per year so they'd be paying Carlson and Karlsson $19M combined. They'd probably have to roll something like this next year to make the money work.

Fehervary-Karlsson
Johansen-Carlson
Alexeyev-TvR (if TvR doesn't require a substantial raise)

If you add Karlsson's $11M to the team next year at a minimum Oshie or Mantha would need to be good and likely either both or one and Kuznetsov as well. Wouldn't cry at all if any or all of those players were moved to make room for EK65 but what market do those guys have? And that's without even discussing the price to acquire EK.

Curious to hear your plan for how you'd make this work from a roster and salary cap perspective.

Also there's no way Joe B wouldn't short-circuit if JC and EK were on the same team. He'd keel over and his systems processor would burn out after saying "no relation" five times in the first game.

Backstrom LTIRetirement? Selling John Carlson if he has a market this offseason?

I don't really know. It is likely a pipe dream but if they are going to buy this is the type of creative move they should be doing instead of like...Joel Edmundson. Which is why selling is the sensible move if they can't swing Karlsson.

 

[bacchist]

Might as well get McDavid while we're at it.

 

[Langway]

Karlsson is at least on the market. They would need SJS to shave it down to the $9M range probably, if not less. They'd probably need to dump Kuznetsov ASAP to invest elsewhere. Either that or persuade 19 to LTIRe. They ought to be able to do better than Johansen/Alexeyev. There's always more proven UFA depth D that need spots. It can be pieced together.

The issue is more whether they've got it in them to shoot their shot and be prepared to both live with the consequences and make significant roster alterations as needed. When the owner is pretty clearly on record that rebuilding is off the table these are the sorts of quick fixes that would seem to be in character. The quickest fix to elevating themselves out of the bubble range and being able to compete with NYR/NJD is to add a player on this level and piece the rest together. It won't assure them of anything...but I would respect the hell out of the attempt at least. I would respect a capably subtle, consistent and effective developmental system that's crafting something beyond grunt effort more but it is what it is. Shooting their shot is at least due more respect than some gentlemanly resignation that they're just stuck in the bubble range from here on out. That all they can manage is to let a lot of solid support pieces walk and replace them with whatever happens to be available and think it's going to be any sort of improvement. Time is against them. They've got to act like it. Maybe they're stuck in the bubble either way, particularly given operational constraints. But at least try something different that grasps that this core group alone doesn't really have it in them. Sticking with what's not working is just slowly bleeding them out.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Backstrom LTIRetirement? Selling John Carlson if he has a market this offseason?

I don't really know. It is likely a pipe dream but if they are going to buy this is the type of creative move they should be doing instead of like...Joel Edmundson. Which is why selling is the sensible move if they can't swing Karlsson.

Backstrom retiring is really the only path forward I see for them being competitive again in the Ovi era unless they can pull a rabbit out of their hat. He’s largely an awful player** right now and should be making no more than $1.5-2M. Unless he has a miraculous recovery and somehow because the player he was five years ago or retires their options for improving the team are greatly limited. You just can’t have a guy making what he makes playing as a replacement level player at the center position. It sucks to say but it’s true.

Compare the Penguins who are a veteran team struggling mightily at the moment but they’re suffering from an entirely different problem. Their bottom six and their bottom defensive pairs are dreadful but their top six and their stars are still their best players. If Pittsburgh had Washington’s depth and goaltending or Washington had Pittsburgh’s stars then each team would be cooking. I think solving depth is much easier given you can find a lot of gems if you have the people and systems in place to do so at the management level but it’s near impossible to overcome boat anchor contracts from your supposed top players.

Evergreen disclaimer**: when I call a professional hockey player an awful player I mean he’s awful relative to his peers. An NHL player is clearly not awful at the sport of hockey.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

If picking up EK, I would then shop JC74 (In the off-season).

 

[trick9]

Trading for EK is my nightmare scenario. 4 more years after this. We should move far away from enigmatic players like him and Kuznetsov instead of committing long-term to them.

People like to bash on our guys like Kuznetsov and Eller for example for having one good season every 4 years but still with Karlsson it's completely fine? Why?

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Trading for EK is my nightmare scenario. 4 more years after this. We should move far away from enigmatic players like him and Kuznetsov instead of committing long-term to them.

People like to bash on our guys like Kuznetsov and Eller for example for having one good season every 4 years but still with Karlsson it's completely fine? Why?

I guess being Norris front runner does that

 

[um]

Backstrom LTIRetirement? Selling John Carlson if he has a market this offseason?

I don't really know. It is likely a pipe dream but if they are going to buy this is the type of creative move they should be doing instead of like...Joel Edmundson. Which is why selling is the sensible move if they can't swing Karlsson.

I think Carlsons injury has made that very difficult to move him, depending on if he comes back and plays of course.

Also, moving Carlson may be a mistake if we're losing so many of our dman this offseason. Someone needs NHL experiance back there.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Trading for EK is my nightmare scenario. 4 more years after this. We should move far away from enigmatic players like him and Kuznetsov instead of committing long-term to them.

People like to bash on our guys like Kuznetsov and Eller for example for having one good season every 4 years but still with Karlsson it's completely fine? Why?

EK’s struggles seems directly related to injuries. If he’s healthy he’s less of an enigma. That’s of course a big risk given his history.

Also, he’s played (and is playing) at a level that only a handful of players have ever played at before. Comparing him to Eller is a bit strange I think.

I think the bigger risk is aside from the injuries, he didn’t play to his full potential with a guy like Burns ahead of him because they made each other a bit redundant. Not sure why it’d be any different here with Carlson.

 

[um]

Trading for EK is my nightmare scenario. 4 more years after this. We should move far away from enigmatic players like him and Kuznetsov instead of committing long-term to them.

People like to bash on our guys like Kuznetsov and Eller for example for having one good season every 4 years but still with Karlsson it's completely fine? Why?

Agreed, Its the wrong direction for the Caps to head in.

Do we not have enough old injury prone players?!?!

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Agreed, Its the wrong direction for the Caps to head in.

Do we not have enough old injury prone players?!?!

I think the debate is what are you solving for? If you’re solving for impact it’s hard to look past EK. He drives offense at an elite level which this team desperately needs and he does it in a scheme similar to what Lavi employs and that’s activating defensemen to create offense. And it’s hard to imagine even Forsythe could f*** it up with EK running point on the PP. Stylistically and based on needs, it’s a great fit.

If you want to get younger then sure, EK doesn’t make sense, but younger doesn’t always equal better. I don’t see any Makars, McAvoys, or Foxs coming down the pipeline in Washington any time soon.

 

[twabby]

As @AlexBrovechkin8 mentioned EK isn't an enigma, he's been consistently great except for when he's been injured. The comparison to Kuznetsov is laughable.

I don't know if he's likely to be injured again or not. But if he isn't, then I can't see him being any worse than a very good #1D, if not a Norris contender again next season. He's the type of guy who you think long and hard about and should at least be under heavy consideration by GMBM.

 

[Empty Goal Net]

Build a high-quality top 5 skaters (or top 4 if you don't consider Ovie top 5 anymore) to complement Ovie in his chase to 895+. Decent goaltending and the chance of lightning in a bottle/career years/good bounces/hockey karma means the team can at least be competitive (and likely entertaining) during the remainder of Ovie's career here, particularly after next season. That means moving out or LTIRe'ing some high $$ contracts (like Nicky, Kuzy, Oshie & Mantha), moving on from Orlov unless he's willing to take below market to stay. It can be done.

 

[ClevelandCapsfan]

Good, now move him after tonight.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Trading for EK is my nightmare scenario. 4 more years after this. We should move far away from enigmatic players like him and Kuznetsov instead of committing long-term to them.

People like to bash on our guys like Kuznetsov and Eller for example for having one good season every 4 years but still with Karlsson it's completely fine? Why?

Maybe something was going on in his personal life (beyond the obvious injuries) and it’s now resolved?

EK, I’m in no way advocating for, only discussing what if they did get him, and should it, only with SJ retaining a good chunk of his AAV IMO.

Let’s cut the BS on Kuzy…..NOBODY (Caps fans) “likes to bash” the guy. I know I’d much rather cheer the guy who delivers on ice myself, he’s just rarely present.

 

[aonb]

the most caps thing ever would be making karlsson trade work and him getting season ending injury at the first shift in caps uniform

 

[Misery74]

Did our dipshit coach announce the lines yet?

Looking forward to seeing Milano, Protas and AA all riding the pine.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

the most caps thing ever would be making karlsson trade work and him getting season ending injury at the first shift in caps uniform

And we would blame you Now!

Did our dipshit coach announce the lines yet?

Looking forward to seeing Milano, Protas and AA all riding the pine.

Start the dotards for Bedard!

 

[Brian23]

Targeting a 32, soon to be 33, year old with an 11.5 million dollar cap hit is not something a team full of old, often injured, and over paid veterans should be doing. I don't understand how anyone is actually entertaining this thought.

If it was 2016 again? Go wild, but it's not.

 

[twabby]

Targeting a 32, soon to be 33, year old with an 11.5 million dollar cap hit is not something a team full of old, often injured, and over paid veterans should be doing. I don't understand how anyone is actually entertaining this thought.

If it was 2016 again? Go wild, but it's not.

I don’t think it should be done while also keeping the likes of Oshie, Backstrom, and/or Carlson. Some or all of those old injured pieces would have to be off the books in order to make Karlsson work.

And Karlsson needs to be seen in the same tier as Ovechkin, who has still been incredibly effective well into his 30s. Karlsson is well above the likes of Carlson, Oshie, and Backstrom in terms of potential impact.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Nicky ain’t retiring. It just won’t happen even if it should.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Targeting a 32, soon to be 33, year old with an 11.5 million dollar cap hit is not something a team full of old, often injured, and over paid veterans should be doing. I don't understand how anyone is actually entertaining this thought.

If it was 2016 again? Go wild, but it's not.

Bro, Do we have to talk about it? I agree trading futures for a run this seasons is worst. It would be really stupid if we didn’t at all entertain the option.

And all options. I’m on team sell

 

[Brian23]

Bro, we have to talk about it. It would be really stupid if we didn’t at all entertain the option.

And all options. I’m on team sell

But there's almost zero justifying reason for the option beyond shiny new toy syndrome. We're not a player away, we're not playing well in any other way, and we have no cap space for him. It just makes no sense with even a cursory thought put into it.

Also, for everyone who loved to hate on Sammy (and VV, since I wasn't a fan).