Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

[BiPolar Caps]

I don’t think it should be done while also keeping the likes of Oshie, Backstrom, and/or Carlson. Some or all of those old injured pieces would have to be off the books in order to make Karlsson work.

And Karlsson needs to be seen in the same tier as Ovechkin, who has still been incredibly effective well into his 30s. Karlsson is well above the likes of Carlson, Oshie, and Backstrom in terms of potential impact.

Backstrom and Carlson would both have to retire, there's no way Leonsis would allow them to be moved after their injuries and what they've been through. Leonsis may be a businessman, but he also strikes me as one who does get emotionally attached to some of the players.

You can revisit this topic in two years when Backstrom, Oshie and Kuzy are all coming off the books.

 

[um]

I think the debate is what are you solving for? If you’re solving for impact it’s hard to look past EK. He drives offense at an elite level which this team desperately needs and he does it in a scheme similar to what Lavi employs and that’s activating defensemen to create offense. And it’s hard to imagine even Forsythe could f*** it up with EK running point on the PP. Stylistically and based on needs, it’s a great fit.

If you want to get younger then sure, EK doesn’t make sense, but younger doesn’t always equal better. I don’t see any Makars, McAvoys, or Foxs coming down the pipeline in Washington any time soon.

Im open to Karlsson if we can find a way to unload Carlson without it costing too much. I'm not really concerned about how he fits the current coaches as I'm pretty sure they'll be gone after this season.

I just think other teams will be in better position and be more willing to spend on Karlsson than the Caps will be, or should be.

Sharks will probably want picks and young players, which we are not particularly strong in. Or if they want current players, well we don't have much of that either. They should be able to do better than Kuznetsov, Mantha or Wilson, who has only one year left.

The Caps just don't have that many valuable assets, unless they stupidly start trading their first round picks. There's also the whole Cap space issue.

Its all very possible, there's just so much up in the air for the Caps right now.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

But there's almost zero justifying reason for the option beyond shiny new toy syndrome. We're not a player away, we're not playing well in any other way, and we have no cap space for him. It just makes no sense with even a cursory thought put into it.

Also, for everyone who loved to hate on Sammy (and VV, since I wasn't a fan).

Maybe drop this in the NHL thread Instead? (As if anyone cares about the content…)

 

[trick9]

EK’s struggles seems directly related to injuries. If he’s healthy he’s less of an enigma. That’s of course a big risk given his history.

Also, he’s played (and is playing) at a level that only a handful of players have ever played at before. Comparing him to Eller is a bit strange I think.

I think the bigger risk is aside from the injuries, he didn’t play to his full potential with a guy like Burns ahead of him because they made each other a bit redundant. Not sure why it’d be any different here with Carlson.

Is that better though? If he has struggled with injuries all those 4 bad years he has had then why would you think he would just out of the blue stay healthy the next 5 years?

I don't like banking on him to stay healthy because he has a major injury history. On top of that we are already banking on the glass men Backstrom and Oshie to stay healthy and our last big acquisation Connor Brown didn't last a month before his injury.

I think i'd rather keep the ~11 million of cap space. Especially considering that with Karlsson or not, we aren't beating neither Bruins or Canes.

 

[Brian23]

Maybe drop this in the NHL thread Instead? (As if anyone cares about the content…)

Why? It's another great baton that I can use to beat over the head all those who want to appeal to the Coach's authority on player readiness. It's directly related to the Capitals roster discussion.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Why? It's another great baton that I can use to beat over the head all those who want to appeal to the Coach's authority on player readiness.

Because this is the Caps roster thread? Why do we need to muck it up with NHL-related posts about other team’s player stats when we have a separate thread exactly for that?

 

[hb13xchamps]

Definitely increases Orlov’s value if the return is true

 

[pman25]

Definitely increases Orlov’s value if the return is true

Maybe but also one less team that will trade for Orlov. Other names out there too like Chychrun, McCabe and Edmundson. Not that those guys are better besides Chychrun but they could limit the amount of dance partners available if they’re moved ahead of Orlov

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

I think we are done. If Vrana ends it for us it would be fitting

 

[Misery74]

On top of everything else that Laviolette is terrible at, add goaltending deployment to the mix.

Lindgren kept us afloat early this year. Now, he doesn’t get a sniff.

 

[g00n]

I think we are done. If Vrana ends it for us it would be fitting

90% chance one of two things happens:

-Vrana goes nuts and pots a hatty and buries this team's season
-Caps score a blowout win with Mantha posting a hatty and mgmt are convinced we're a Cup threat again

The other 10% is not as interesting.

 

[trick9]

But there's almost zero justifying reason for the option beyond shiny new toy syndrome. We're not a player away, we're not playing well in any other way, and we have no cap space for him. It just makes no sense with even a cursory thought put into it.

Also, for everyone who loved to hate on Sammy (and VV, since I wasn't a fan).

Samsonov also leads the stupid mistakes leading to Playoff OT losses / 60 -chart.

 

[Holtbyisms]

Might as well get McDavid while we're at it.

Well considering how most of this board values Orlov and Hathaway...a package of them together and a 7th should be enough.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

 

[Brian23]

Because this is the Caps roster thread? Why do we need to muck it up with NHL-related posts about other team’s player stats when we have a separate thread exactly for that?

wut.

I....I just explained...why...?

Samsonov also leads the stupid mistakes leading to Playoff OT losses / 60 -chart.

Feels over reals.

 

[Roshi]

Hard to like the suggestion ”should convince Backstrom retire”. I hope my team isnt garbage like that.

 

[Holtbyisms]

On top of everything else that Laviolette is terrible at, add goaltending deployment to the mix.

Lindgren kept us afloat early this year. Now, he doesn’t get a sniff.

Kuemper is older than Lindgren sooooo...that's how Lavi makes all his lineup decisions.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

wut.

I....I just explained...why...?

Feels over reals.

So flaming…..got it.

 

[um]

Hard to like the suggestion ”should convince Backstrom retire”. I hope my team isnt garbage like that.

Agreed. There's no reason for the Caps to do anyone dirty like that.

Backstrom and the Caps agreed to the contract. It's what it is.

 

[HeyMattyB]

I've missed a bunch of Caps games since Backstrom's return. So, sincere question: What is it about his on-ice game that has fallen off a cliff to such a degree that everyone's calling for him to retire/LTIRetire?

Is his skating as labored and terrible as it was when he came back late last season? (IIRC, after his recent return, the general consensus was his skating looked "fine." As in, he was his normal slow self, but didn't look labored.)
Has he lost his ability to "slow down the play," so to speak (which he's always used to compensate for his lack of foot speed)? And/or lost his ability to thread magic passes through defenders? Is it just a general "not putting up points" thing (especially given the cost of his contract, which we all know is what it is)? The only thing I've really noticed is that it seems like he coughs up the puck a lot these days, whereas he used to protect it very well.

What is it about his on-ice play that has become so bad that some have lost all hope of Backstrom, in the twilight of his career, returning and establishing himself as a solid (if overpaid) middle-six center who can still run PP1 and play a defensively responsible two-way game? Or does it all just come down to cost efficiency?

EDIT: Because if it's just a matter of "Despite being a shadow of his former spectacular self, he can still be a more-than-capable middle-six guy for a playoff-caliber team-- it's just that he's overpaid by a good $4-$6 million dollars," then OK, I get it. But, in that case, at least he's still an NHL player, as opposed to a $9.5M anchor.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

This is exactly what I’ve been wanting the Caps to do. Their willingness to admit when it’s time to fold ‘em and act decisively (or not) will have consequences — good or bad — long past this year. Trying to limp into the playoffs is the worst decision they could make in both the short and long term. Sell before you miss the window.

 

[itsjustsurvival]

I've missed a bunch of Caps games since Backstrom's return. So, sincere question: What is it about his on-ice game that has fallen off a cliff to such a degree that everyone's calling for him to retire/LTIRetire?

Is his skating as labored and terrible as it was when he came back late last season? (IIRC, after his recent return, the general consensus was his skating looked "fine." As in, he was his normal slow self, but didn't look labored.)
Has he lost his ability to "slow down the play," so to speak (which he's always used to compensate for his lack of foot speed)? And/or lost his ability to thread magic passes through defenders? Is it just a general "not putting up points" thing (especially given the cost of his contract, which we all know is what it is)? The only thing I've really noticed is that it seems like he coughs up the puck a lot these days, whereas he used to protect it very well.

What is it about his on-ice play that has become so bad that some have lost all hope of Backstrom, in the twilight of his career, returning and establishing himself as a solid (if overpaid) middle-six center who can still run PP1 and play a defensively responsible two-way game? Or does it all just come down to cost efficiency?

EDIT: Because if it's just a matter of "Despite being a shadow of his former spectacular self, he can still be a more-than-capable middle-six guy for a playoff-caliber team-- it's just that he's overpaid by a good $4-$6 million dollars," then OK, I get it. But, in that case, at least he's still an NHL player, as opposed to a $9.5M anchor.

I think he'll be fine so long as hip holds up. He missed a ton of time, hopefully he gets better the more he plays. I agree that he is a fine middle six player for the time being.

I have bigger issue with most of the other forwards underperforming.

 

[BiPolar Caps]

This is exactly what I’ve been wanting the Caps to do. Their willingness to admit when it’s time to fold ‘em and act decisively (or not) will have consequences — good or bad — long past this year. Trying to limp into the playoffs is the worst decision they could make in both the short and long term. Sell before you miss the window.

I already like what Armstrong has done. If this comes to past, then the Blues win the TDL hands down.

That's asset management!

 

[twabby]

I've missed a bunch of Caps games since Backstrom's return. So, sincere question: What is it about his on-ice game that has fallen off a cliff to such a degree that everyone's calling for him to retire/LTIRetire?

Is his skating as labored and terrible as it was when he came back late last season? (IIRC, after his recent return, the general consensus was his skating looked "fine." As in, he was his normal slow self, but didn't look labored.)
Has he lost his ability to "slow down the play," so to speak (which he's always used to compensate for his lack of foot speed)? And/or lost his ability to thread magic passes through defenders? Is it just a general "not putting up points" thing (especially given the cost of his contract, which we all know is what it is)? The only thing I've really noticed is that it seems like he coughs up the puck a lot these days, whereas he used to protect it very well.

What is it about his on-ice play that has become so bad that some have lost all hope of Backstrom, in the twilight of his career, returning and establishing himself as a solid (if overpaid) middle-six center who can still run PP1 and play a defensively responsible two-way game? Or does it all just come down to cost efficiency?

EDIT: Because if it's just a matter of "Despite being a shadow of his former spectacular self, he can still be a more-than-capable middle-six guy for a playoff-caliber team-- it's just that he's overpaid by a good $4-$6 million dollars," then OK, I get it. But, in that case, at least he's still an NHL player, as opposed to a $9.5M anchor.

I don't watch the games so I can't break down the exact ways in which he's declined other than he's slow and much weaker on the puck as you said, but I can provide some numbers.

In terms of offensive impact as measured by GAR/60 Nicklas Backstrom ranks 642nd out of 643 qualified players this season. He's ahead of only Kyle Burroughs of Vancouver. In terms of overall impact as measured by GAR/60, he ranks 638th.

I don't think anyone should have expected him to return to anywhere near what he once was, but to me it appears his hip injury has robbed him of continuing to be even an NHL-level talent. He's an unplayable player who can't be healthy-scratched. I'm sure he'll regress a bit upward but I don't think it's reasonable to expect him to play at an NHL level for the remainder of his career given the nature of his injury and his surgery.

 

[HeyMattyB]

This is exactly what I’ve been wanting the Caps to do. Their willingness to admit when it’s time to fold ‘em and act decisively (or not) will have consequences — good or bad — long past this year. Trying to limp into the playoffs is the worst decision they could make in both the short and long term. Sell before you miss the window.

Saw that tweet and immediately thought, "This is what the Caps need to be doing right now."

Since they won the Cup, I've come to terms with the Caps being a middle-of-the-pack playoff team that makes some smart/cheap additions before going into the post-season with a puncher's chance. But, unlike in previous seasons, this year's puncher's chance has to be weighed against the significant benefits of selling off valuable UFA assets (assuming they can't be resigned on team-friendly contracts) for draft picks. Because, during this crucial off-season, those picks can be used to 1) trade for younger players who can immediately inject skill and speed into our aging lineup and/or 2) act as sweeteners, if necessary, to trade away undesirable contracts (like Mantha, Kuznetsov, and Oshie) that will then free up the cap space needed for the org to bring in impact players via free agency.

This whole off-season, with its many expiring UFA contracts, was set up by design specifically to provide the org with maximum flexibility in the event it was determined a major retool to our aging core was necessary. It is. So if the Caps want to remain competitive for the rest of Ovi's time here, as they promised him, this is the way. Don't blow it.